02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

i just bought some new mirrors for my 02 silverado and they are for a 03-07.5 silverado and i know im going to have to change the pig tails on them to make the mirrors work that i already know. my question is the new mirrors have l.e.d. turn signal lamps on the outside of the mirror like the ford f-250's and such do. how can i wire up the lights to be on with my parking lights but when i turn my signal on the signal over rides the parking light a the light at on the mirror blinks and when the signal turns of the light goes back on with the parking lights? can i do this with a relay or is it much more complicated than that? thanks in advance.

dragonrage

Do you have access to any signals that are constantly on while a directional is on? e.g. pre-flasher circuit. If so then it's pretty easy. Use that signal and ground (assuming it's a +12v signal - if it's a ground then use it and a +12v) through terminals 85 and 86 of a relay. Terminal 30 and ground will connect to the light on the mirror. 87a will go to the parking light signal and 87 will go to the flashing directional signal. Again, this is assuming that the signals are based on switching +12v. If they switch ground and the +12v is a constant connection then modify as such.

Note that this does NOT buffer the signal from either the parking lights or the directionals. Add a buffer between terminal 30 and the light instead of connecting them directly if you want - this might be necessary for the directionals to keep the flashing frequency correct. You can do that with either another relay or - better - a transistor like a 2n3055 in an emitter follower configuration.

If you do not have access to a pre-flasher directional circuit then you will need to make your own signal from the post-flasher signal. I'd do it with two transistors and a capacitor and a resistor or two. A couple of emitter follower circuits would do it. You'd use one transistor (a pretty small NPN like a 2n2222 or 2n3904) to buffer the signal and drive a capacitor off of the emitter. The second transistor would be a power NPN like a 2n3055 and would have the base driven by the voltage of the capacitor. What will happen is that when the directional goes high, it will charge the capacitor, and the second transistor should draw power slowly enough (through a resistor) that it should stay high even when the directional is low. When you turn your directional off, it should drain off enough after maybe 5-10 seconds that the signal will then go low and it will resume being connected to your parking light circuit.

I could design, build and sell you a circuit if you want. I'll need the wiring diagrams for the vehicle if you want it. But if you do have access to that pre-flasher signal then it's easy enough that you don't need anything like that from me.

P.S. if you do involve transistors in any way, keep in mind that TO-3 cases like the 2n3055 have one of the terminals (collector, I think) connected to the case. If you let the case of the transistor touch a ground e.g. sheet metal of your car, it will short out. Make sure to avoid that, and make sure you have no unfused circuits. Some other types of transistor cases like TO-220 have metal tabs that are also connected to one of the terminals. Basically if there's any metal on the transistor, it must be isolated from anything metal in the car.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

There is a much simpler way. There are two different configurations you might have...
1 - the mirror turn signals have their own separate power and ground wires and they are ordinary bulbs (not LEDs)
-OR-
2 - the mirror turn signals ground through the same wire as the mirror motors or through a common chassis ground or the mirror uses LEDs instead of ordinary bulbs.

If you have configuration 1 (separate power and ground wires) simply connect one wire to the parking light power near the front turn signal bulb and the other wire to the turn signal power near the same bulb. Use a ScotchLock or similar connector so that you don't cut the connection to the front lamp. This is the way GM makes the side marker lights flash on some models. The only side effect is that when the turn signals are used with the parking lights on, the mirror light will flash alternately with the other turn signal bulbs. In every other situation, the mirror light will flash in sync with the other bulbs.

Wiring for configuration 2 (common ground or LEDs) is very similar except you will need an ordinary NO (normally open) 4-prong relay - commonly called a Bosch-style relay - for each side. You could also use a 5-prong relay and just leave terminal 87A empty. Connect the terminals as follows:
30 - fused constant (battery) power
85 - tap into the parking light power near the front turn signal bulb (use a ScotchLock or similar connector)
86 - tap into the turn signal power near the same bulb
87 - connect to the mirror turn signal power wire
Like the first configuration, the mirror will flash alternately with the other turn signals when the parking lights are on, otherwise it will flash in sync with the other bulbs.

mrrman

following this

dragonrage

Yes I was thinking of that alternating method of taking power between the parking lights and directionals, but that opposite behavior would annoy me too much... I didn't mention it because I figured in the LED factor and didn't want to mention a bridge to make it work with that... but if it doesn't have them then it's easier.

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

it has led's in the mirror they are not bulbs. and he oppisite thing would annoy me also. so lemme try and see if i can summarize what i basically need to do.

i need to get a 5 prong relay and connect it like dragon rage stated in his first post. now if i do it like that will that mess up the blinking frequency? and also the leds on the mirror will be on and as soon as i turn on my signal the relay will switch over to the power wire of the blinker and the light will completely turn off and on like it is factory? those are my two biggest worries.

i get everything yall are saying except for the transistors part and a circuit board, that is way beyond my level... lol

basically here is my run down, i have an 02 silverado with electric mirrors (no heat or signal) the aftermarket world only makes towing mirrors with a blinker for the 03+. so i had to buy mirrors those mirros. so im going to the junk yard tomorrrow to get the pig tails for those mirrors cut my stock ones off wire those up to function like stock and then figure the whole turn signal thing. its gonna be kind of a pain but i think it is going to be worth it. ill post a pic of the mirror in a sec.

thanks for all of yalls hep. im sure ill get it done and ill get pics posted up as soon as i do. mirrors should be here monday so depending on work schedule should be done in about a week or so.

EDIT: here is the link to the mirrors on ebay, which is where i got them from.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-07...Q5fAccessories

it looks like the blue plug is going to be my heated and turn signal plug. my question that i feel for some reason seems stupid cause as soon as yall tell me im gonna be like oh duh! but how do i figure out which wire needs to be the ground for the mirror without shorting the light out, because im guessin for the blue plug is one wire is ground, one wire is the light, and the third wire is for the heated mirror.

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

ok just looked a little close, i know that colors of the wires usually mean nothing but my best gues would be the black wire is going to be the ground, what do yall think?

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

ok so there is this gay *** youtube video that i found where this guy did exactly what i needed except one of his lights is the running light and the other is the signal. he did not have to add a resistor or anything like that so all should be good with just running the relay and getting the right wires on the right pins. i havnt messed with a relay in a while but im sure ill do fine. thanks for all of yalls help.

dragonrage

You can try it without a buffer... if it changes the frequency of your directionals by much then let us know and we can tell you how to fix that.

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

Dragonrage - no problem im hoping i dont need a buffer just to simplify things for me a bit. Lol thanks for all of your help, im in the process of hoping on alldata to figure out which wire does what so i can properly switch the pig tails out. Thanks again!

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

Dragonrage or anyone for that matter. Terminals 85 and 86 are the power and ground? So does the relay need a constant power? And also does it matter whhich terminal gets the power or ground?

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

ok so i think i got the whole relay thing figured out and understand it.

I <85 _ _

87a^ ^87

I <86 I <30

so the relay will always be powerd and when my parking lights are turned on that will send power from 87a to 30 which is wired to the light on the mirror. and then when i turn my blinker on 87 will over ride 87a and terminal 30 will be connected to 87 and send the blinker signal to the mirror. am i right?

my only question is when the my parking lights are one and i turn my blinker on will the terminal 30 stayed connect to 87 or in the middle of the pulse of the blinker will the relay switch and 87a will be connected? if 87a will stayed connected then i see this working perfect. i just need to make sure the led's take a 12v power source. i hope so as this would make things a lot easier. if it takes less than 12v will a resistor take care of this problem or is it way more complicated then that?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Here is how a relay is wired:


Terminals 85 and 86 are the coil (electromagnet) power and ground. When current flows, the coil inside the relay activates and pushes the internal switch from terminal 87A to terminal 87 (connecting 87 to 30). When current stops flowing through the coil, the switch returns to its rest position on terminal 87A (connecting 87A to 30).

If you can find power that is switched by the turn signal switch but is not flashing (i.e. before the T/S flasher), you would use it to power the relay coil to switch between two power sources for the mirror lights - constant power for parking lights and flashing power for turn signals.

To answer your question, as long as the coil terminals (85 and 86) receive current, the relay will keep 30 connected to 87. It doesn't matter that the current flowing across 30 and 87 is flashing, it only matters that the 85/86 current is constant. And that's where you will probably have a problem. GM vehicles (along with almost every other manufacturer) pass current through the T/S flasher before it gets to the T/S switch so it is already a flashing current when the switch is turned on. There is no place you can get power that is on constantly (not flashing) when the signals are on and off when they're off. More recent models use electronic signal modules rather than flashers so they might work but they usually don't pass a full 12V current to activate the module - it's usually a data stream across the car's internal "network".

I've been meaning to ask... why do you want the mirrors to have parking lights? They are designed to be turn signals only and would be extremely easy to connect in that configuration.

02CamaroSSLE

iTrader: (5)

mainly because everyone can just hook up the turn signals. i kinda wanted to be different than everyone else and that way it looks "stock" but the more and more i understand what your saying and how everything needs to work, the les and less it seems that it is going to happen. thanks for all of your help. i think im just going to hook up the turn signals and call it a day. just have to confirm that these led's take 12v.