What does it mean when an amp has "clean power"
09-18-2011, 09:43 AM
#1
What does it mean when an amp has "clean power" Hi guys I just got a rockford fosgate t1 10" sub and built a wedge shaped box behind the rear seat with a small 2" baffled port in it. I just have a cheap dual xia3145 300rms watt amp hooked up to it right now because I had it laying around. The issue i'm having is that the bass isnt very crisp. I can plug the port, leave it open and play with with amp settings anyway I choose but I just cant get the bass I'm looking for. It hits hard on good punching bass notes in rock songd but it has a low resonance "rattling" bass in a lot of songs that I really cant tune out with the amp
My buddy has relatively the same box I do (maybe an 1" smaller all the way around) with also a small port. He uses a JL w3 10" sub and a pioneer 400w rms amp and with literally the same cd his bass is much more clear it still has a nice thump to it at hard notes but it has no resonance in songs where mine does.
I'm 99% sure its not the sub as both are proven quality subs, rated at the same 550-600 rms, with roughly the same box. The only thing I can think of is the amp. Like I said mine is just a walmart special dual while his is a midrange pioneer. Is this what people mean by having "clean power" whereas one will have a crisp bass note while the other has a resonance in the bass?
My buddy has relatively the same box I do (maybe an 1" smaller all the way around) with also a small port. He uses a JL w3 10" sub and a pioneer 400w rms amp and with literally the same cd his bass is much more clear it still has a nice thump to it at hard notes but it has no resonance in songs where mine does.
I'm 99% sure its not the sub as both are proven quality subs, rated at the same 550-600 rms, with roughly the same box. The only thing I can think of is the amp. Like I said mine is just a walmart special dual while his is a midrange pioneer. Is this what people mean by having "clean power" whereas one will have a crisp bass note while the other has a resonance in the bass?
09-18-2011, 01:08 PM
#3
Staging Lane
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i believe the problem is the subwoofer is under rated using that amp. You sub should have a 600w min! try another amp i would stick to fosgate seeing as it matches your sub. youll be lucky if your seeing 300 watts max out of dual amps.
hope i helped
for real bass check out DD digital design they pack a punch
hope i helped
for real bass check out DD digital design they pack a punch
09-18-2011, 04:45 PM
#4
Yes the box is within spec for the sub. Im now sure it's the amp. Like I said I know it's a little under powered but I don't wanna be running the sub close to the 600rms rated just because I can't imagine how that can be good. I borrowed my friends 400watt pioneer for a min today and it made it sound like a completely different setup. The bass punch was much harder even at a lower power setting and it didn't have nearly the amount of resonanence bass mine had. So like I said I just need a better amp I think I ordered up a kac-7205 rated at 500rms
09-18-2011, 07:23 PM
#5
Sorry...no. It's a common misconception that using a lower power amp can cause distortion by sending too little power to a speaker. If that were true then you would never be able to turn down the volume (reduce the power) of a higher power amp. The only time an underpowered amp can cause a problem is if you crank it up to try to get more volume and you drive it into clipping. That doesn't mean that you won't ever get distortion out of some underpowered amps but it's because of the quality of the amp not the amount of power it produces.
09-18-2011, 08:30 PM
#6
thanks whiteknight. That is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. I never really intended to keep this amp with the sub as I know its not great and doesnt hold a candle to a sub like the t1 I just wanted it hooked up asap so I used what I had. I was just a little disappointed when i plugged it in and the bass I got was good but kind of distorted compared to my buddy with his jl w3.
However like i said after hooking his pioneer amp (which was putting out less power) from his jl to my t1 is became clear the sub was not the issue because the base sounded so much clearer and had less resonance in between notes. I knew some amps put out cleaner power than others but I had no idea it was that significant. I've done quite a few sub installs but I never used such a cheap amp so I wasnt sure if that could really have been the problem but it now appears as it is. Like I said I have the 500 watt rms kenwood coming so hopefully that will clear things up but still not stretch the 600rms limit of the t1.
However like i said after hooking his pioneer amp (which was putting out less power) from his jl to my t1 is became clear the sub was not the issue because the base sounded so much clearer and had less resonance in between notes. I knew some amps put out cleaner power than others but I had no idea it was that significant. I've done quite a few sub installs but I never used such a cheap amp so I wasnt sure if that could really have been the problem but it now appears as it is. Like I said I have the 500 watt rms kenwood coming so hopefully that will clear things up but still not stretch the 600rms limit of the t1.
Trending Topics
09-19-2011, 02:44 AM
#8
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
Dual amps are crap, step up to something better and I'm sure you will be pleased. I was always amazed at how a fellow car audio enthusiast's car sounded running one of several MTX Thunder amps. They always sounded amazing on subs. Don't know if MTX still makes em like that though.
09-19-2011, 04:26 PM
#9
Dual amps are crap, step up to something better and I'm sure you will be pleased. I was always amazed at how a fellow car audio enthusiast's car sounded running one of several MTX Thunder amps. They always sounded amazing on subs. Don't know if MTX still makes em like that though.
dan-
09-19-2011, 05:57 PM
#10
The Dual amp your using is the problem. It claims 290watts RMS @ 4ohm bridged with 2 x 40 amp fuses. On a good day it is probably making 200-250watts if that. The other thing is that you probably have the gains maxed out on that amp to try and push that sub which is also going to cause distortion because that amp is not very clean to begin with, then push it to the max and the rest is history. Fortunately you have not damaged your sub by doing this...yet. You can cause damage by under powering that sub and sending it a distorted signal. Your powering a 600watt RMS sub with less then half the power it is rated for. Ever heard a radio at peak volume and how bad it distorts when you go beyond what it is capable of. With a speaker that is capable of say 100watts RMS power and you power it off say a radio that has 20watts RMS power, even though the speaker is capable of handling much more the radio is distorting really bad because it is being pushed beyond what it really should. This is a great way to blow up a speaker or in your case a decent sub.
Your buddy is using a decent amp, I have one similar that came with my truck and it sounds decent and actually pushes what it says it does. Try powering your sub off your buddies amp and see how it sounds. I am sure it will sound much better using his amp then the dual amp.
Also...what impedance are you running that sub at? The Dual is only 4ohm stable when bridged, not 2ohm like alot of amps are. So if the sub is wired in parallel you are running it at an impedance the amp is not rated for and can also cause damage to the sub, the amp or both. Try it at 4ohms and see what happens and how it sounds if you haven't already.
Good luck and be careful how hard you push that sub with your current amp.
Your buddy is using a decent amp, I have one similar that came with my truck and it sounds decent and actually pushes what it says it does. Try powering your sub off your buddies amp and see how it sounds. I am sure it will sound much better using his amp then the dual amp.
Also...what impedance are you running that sub at? The Dual is only 4ohm stable when bridged, not 2ohm like alot of amps are. So if the sub is wired in parallel you are running it at an impedance the amp is not rated for and can also cause damage to the sub, the amp or both. Try it at 4ohms and see what happens and how it sounds if you haven't already.
Good luck and be careful how hard you push that sub with your current amp.
09-19-2011, 06:31 PM
#11
The Dual amp your using is the problem. It claims 290watts RMS @ 4ohm bridged with 2 x 40 amp fuses. On a good day it is probably making 200-250watts if that. The other thing is that you probably have the gains maxed out on that amp to try and push that sub which is also going to cause distortion because that amp is not very clean to begin with, then push it to the max and the rest is history. Fortunately you have not damaged your sub by doing this...yet. You can cause damage by under powering that sub and sending it a distorted signal. Your powering a 600watt RMS sub with less then half the power it is rated for. Ever heard a radio at peak volume and how bad it distorts when you go beyond what it is capable of. With a speaker that is capable of say 100watts RMS power and you power it off say a radio that has 20watts RMS power, even though the speaker is capable of handling much more the radio is distorting really bad because it is being pushed beyond what it really should. This is a great way to blow up a speaker or in your case a decent sub.
Your buddy is using a decent amp, I have one similar that came with my truck and it sounds decent and actually pushes what it says it does. Try powering your sub off your buddies amp and see how it sounds. I am sure it will sound much better using his amp then the dual amp.
Also...what impedance are you running that sub at? The Dual is only 4ohm stable when bridged, not 2ohm like alot of amps are. So if the sub is wired in parallel you are running it at an impedance the amp is not rated for and can also cause damage to the sub, the amp or both. Try it at 4ohms and see what happens and how it sounds if you haven't already.
Good luck and be careful how hard you push that sub with your current amp.
Your buddy is using a decent amp, I have one similar that came with my truck and it sounds decent and actually pushes what it says it does. Try powering your sub off your buddies amp and see how it sounds. I am sure it will sound much better using his amp then the dual amp.
Also...what impedance are you running that sub at? The Dual is only 4ohm stable when bridged, not 2ohm like alot of amps are. So if the sub is wired in parallel you are running it at an impedance the amp is not rated for and can also cause damage to the sub, the amp or both. Try it at 4ohms and see what happens and how it sounds if you haven't already.
Good luck and be careful how hard you push that sub with your current amp.
The dual is getting pulled tomorrow, and you are right I did hook it up to my buddys pioneer and even though his amp is rated at less power it still kicks the crap out of mine. The sub sounds just as good if not a little better than his JL w3 sub hooked up to the same amp. Tomorrow I'll be throwing the kenwood in which is 500 rms. And to answer the question about the impedance, the sub is a 2ohm DVC and I have it wired in parallel so it sees 4ohms at the amp which is pushing "290".
ONe of my problems selecting a new amp was finding one that would work with a 4ohm sub and could provide decent rms power the kac-7205 was the amp that provided the most 4ohm power at the right price.
09-19-2011, 06:55 PM
#13
When one uses too small an amp they tend to turn the gain up to get more power. When the gain is too high it cuts the peaks and valleys of the sin wave off. So now instead of a speaker moving in and out smoothly with the sin wave signal they have abrupt stopping and starting of the speakers movement. This is what is commonly known as clipping and my be your source of distortion. It also creates alottt of extra heat in the sub. Think of it like you slamming the gas then slamming on the brakes over and over, crap ain't good!
But if your amp is slightly overpowered you can set the amp up properly with the gain correct and the sub will be much cooler than if it were clipping.
Also look at your amps class. An a/b class is much less efficient (power usage) than a class d but will afford a cleaner sound. Class d is pretty clean at low frequencies though so it may not be worth it to you.
But if your amp is slightly overpowered you can set the amp up properly with the gain correct and the sub will be much cooler than if it were clipping.
Also look at your amps class. An a/b class is much less efficient (power usage) than a class d but will afford a cleaner sound. Class d is pretty clean at low frequencies though so it may not be worth it to you.
09-20-2011, 02:50 PM
#14
If your running it in series then you have the T110D2? This would be able to run at 1 or 4ohm. If you have the T110D4 then it would only be able to run at 2 or 8ohm. Just wondering because your not stuck with running at 4ohm impedance. You can get the right amp and run it at 1 ohm on a decent class-D monoblock sub amp and hit it pretty well.
I have some inexpensive 1 ohm stable amps that would definitely put you in the right power and output.
I have some inexpensive 1 ohm stable amps that would definitely put you in the right power and output.
09-22-2011, 08:32 AM
#15
Thanjavur the replys guys I gotthe kenwood amp hooked up yesterday an it's a night and day difference the sound is much clearer and crisp where the other amp would make the bass resonate and drone, the kenwood now just gives a clean hit. I currently only have the amp turned about 1/4 way on the bass boost and about 2/3 on the gain so it's not even really staining the amp 
