Wiring sub in the sail panel
10-20-2011, 09:35 AM
#1
Staging Lane
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Wiring sub in the sail panel I have a factory speaker configuration. I have replaced the front speakers with some alpines but everything is wired the same. I have an aftermarket headunit as well. My headunit has controls specifically for subs and I was wondering if I can wire the sails to be controlled by the head unit. I want to put cdts in there. Thanks
10-20-2011, 10:52 AM
#3
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The sub output is only for preamp outs meaning you need an external amp to use them.
I do not recommend running hatch speakers at all, so what you can technically do is run the rear speaker outputs to the sail panels with a passive lowpass crossover in line with them (because subs will sound like garbage if you try to run them full range) and then you can use your fader control for subwoofer level control. If you have/use the Monsoon amp then I don't know what will control the bass level - if it runs from the rears or the fronts or if it sums them or what. It's been a while since I've had an F-body and even longer since I've had one with the Monsoon system.
However, that will not provide a lot of power, and the passive crossover is kind of a pain in the ***.
I really do recommend the separate amp. Even a 100 or 200 watt continuous ("RMS") amp will be a huge improvement over a head unit or Monsoon amp. And if you install it yourself and buy a used amp, you can get it all done for about $100.
I do not recommend running hatch speakers at all, so what you can technically do is run the rear speaker outputs to the sail panels with a passive lowpass crossover in line with them (because subs will sound like garbage if you try to run them full range) and then you can use your fader control for subwoofer level control. If you have/use the Monsoon amp then I don't know what will control the bass level - if it runs from the rears or the fronts or if it sums them or what. It's been a while since I've had an F-body and even longer since I've had one with the Monsoon system.
However, that will not provide a lot of power, and the passive crossover is kind of a pain in the ***.
I really do recommend the separate amp. Even a 100 or 200 watt continuous ("RMS") amp will be a huge improvement over a head unit or Monsoon amp. And if you install it yourself and buy a used amp, you can get it all done for about $100.
10-20-2011, 11:25 AM
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I use 6.5" midbass drivers in my sail panels, similar to the factory setup but with an aftermarket HU and external amps. I also have a 12" sub in a ported enclosure.
I set the HU to LPF to 100 Hz on the sub output and send that to the monoblock driving the 12".
I set the HPF for the rear RCA outs to 80 Hz to my 4 channel amp that drives the door and hatch channels. I set the analog HPF settings on that amp to 150 Hz or something above what the minimum freq the doors components were rated for.
That 4 channel amp has an unaltered summary RCA output that sums the front and rear RCA inputs. I send that signal to the 2 channel amp that drives the sail panel midbass cones and set the analog LPF on it for 300 Hz. What you end up with something like this:
monblock sends 25-100 Hz to my 12"
2 channel amp sends 80-300 Hz to my 6.5" midbass sails
4 channel amp sends HU HPF-high to doors/hatch
Basically, since your external amps typically only allow an analog HPF or LPF dial setting, you combine them with the digital filters on the HU to send the midbass only, a filtered bandpass of 80-300 Hz midbass freqs to the sails. If you send the sail panels freqs higher than 300-500 Hz, you will get much more than a "fill effect" and will start to draw the soundstage backward, which is distracting and undesirable.
Hope this makes sense. I think having a separate bass and midbass really enhances the soundstage and takes full advantage of the power offered by external amps.
I set the HU to LPF to 100 Hz on the sub output and send that to the monoblock driving the 12".
I set the HPF for the rear RCA outs to 80 Hz to my 4 channel amp that drives the door and hatch channels. I set the analog HPF settings on that amp to 150 Hz or something above what the minimum freq the doors components were rated for.
That 4 channel amp has an unaltered summary RCA output that sums the front and rear RCA inputs. I send that signal to the 2 channel amp that drives the sail panel midbass cones and set the analog LPF on it for 300 Hz. What you end up with something like this:
monblock sends 25-100 Hz to my 12"
2 channel amp sends 80-300 Hz to my 6.5" midbass sails
4 channel amp sends HU HPF-high to doors/hatch
Basically, since your external amps typically only allow an analog HPF or LPF dial setting, you combine them with the digital filters on the HU to send the midbass only, a filtered bandpass of 80-300 Hz midbass freqs to the sails. If you send the sail panels freqs higher than 300-500 Hz, you will get much more than a "fill effect" and will start to draw the soundstage backward, which is distracting and undesirable.
Hope this makes sense. I think having a separate bass and midbass really enhances the soundstage and takes full advantage of the power offered by external amps.
Last edited by Capricio; 10-20-2011 at 11:33 AM.
10-20-2011, 11:53 AM
#5
Staging Lane
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Wow. Ok. The responses definitely make sense. The local audio shop recommended just running some coax or components in the sails. Then just put a 10" sub in the hatch. I'm just wanting some bass and right now my hu has a hpf that controls all the speakers. So if I set the hpf to like 100 the fronts sound good but the sound lacks bass. When hpf is turned off the fronts get the low bass and when turned up sound like garbage
10-20-2011, 12:06 PM
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a 10" in the hatch with a monoblock would help a lot for sub-bass freqs, 120 Hz and below. I don't know what you have now or how much you want to spend on other amps, but you could just let the monsoon drive everything else and it would sound pretty decent with a lot more bass.
A good set of components in the doors would also be a good "bang for the buck". They may do a little better down in the midbass range than what you have now, 120-300 Hz.
I would ignore the shop's ideas on the sails. You could leave the stock midbass cones to be driven by the monsoon amp or do what I described in the other post. I recommend you continue to use them as a midbass and don't put a full range speaker there, although I know that's what some other people do. I'm very much a fan of having the soundstage come from the front. Bass tends to be perceived as being more non-directional, so if it comes from the rear it doesn't matter much.
People bitch about the monsoon system but the speaker roles and positioning were pretty well thought out for the cabin dimensions compared to other cars.
A good set of components in the doors would also be a good "bang for the buck". They may do a little better down in the midbass range than what you have now, 120-300 Hz.
I would ignore the shop's ideas on the sails. You could leave the stock midbass cones to be driven by the monsoon amp or do what I described in the other post. I recommend you continue to use them as a midbass and don't put a full range speaker there, although I know that's what some other people do. I'm very much a fan of having the soundstage come from the front. Bass tends to be perceived as being more non-directional, so if it comes from the rear it doesn't matter much.
People bitch about the monsoon system but the speaker roles and positioning were pretty well thought out for the cabin dimensions compared to other cars.
10-20-2011, 12:42 PM
#7
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If they put a 10" in then yeah, either throw some coaxes in the back or just leave them empty. If you don't have passengers sit in the back or you don't listen to music when you do then just leave them empty. If you do put coaxes there, make sure to dump the hatch speakers. I recommend dumping the hatch speakers in any case, but it becomes even more important if you have a full range signal in the sail panels because six full-range speakers (front/sail/rear) would cause even more phase issues than four.
In my opinion, front components and a 10"/12" sub in the rear is all the car needs. Sail panel speakers and hatch speakers will only hurt the sound unless you've got people in the back seat.
In my opinion, front components and a 10"/12" sub in the rear is all the car needs. Sail panel speakers and hatch speakers will only hurt the sound unless you've got people in the back seat.
