mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

I'm about to install a pair of Focal 165KP speakers in my front doors. For these speakers, the doors have to be completely sealed. I'm planning to achieve that with some Dynamat Xtreme and some silicone, covering all the holes... but what do you do about the square holes at the bottom, where the door panel hooks on?

Also, a separate question, but on the same topic: I'm planning on replacing the door speaker frame (black plastic) by a fiberboard plate of the same shape, to give the speaker a more solid base. Has anyone attempted to do this? What depth board can I use without the cone and surround assembly hitting the speaker grille at full volume?

dragonrage

Do NOT make it the same way as the stock speaker bracket, Take a piece of cardboard and make your own template and then trace it onto MDF and cut it. Make sure to leave a notch for the door panel hole in the corner.

I'll try to remember to get a picture of mine when I get home.

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, that would really help!

...and please tell me what thickness MDF you used.

dragonrage

Edit: Actually, I'm not sure... I think it's more than 1/2", looking at it again...

renxwar

Subscribing because I wanna see some pics of the wood bracket, too.

umrjmac

iTrader: (2)

Maybe I am asking a silly question...but I am a bit confused by the desire to make the door water tight.

Unless I am mistaken, the rubber seal that lines up against the bottom of the window is not water tight itself (much less air tight), and there are drain holes present at the bottom of the car door so that everything can drain. Also you would have to cover the large holes behind the door panel (that the plastic sheet is covering) and figure out something for the door latch.

So, are you really sure that you want to (or even can) make the door air tight? Maybe it would be more feasible to build some sort of enclosure into the door, or do what I have seen a few others do and buy (or build) a set of kick panels and then fiberglass the back (if you buy the qforms) and run those as an air tight enclosure.

KEE AUDIO

iTrader: (65)

You really can't make an F-body door air tight. As soon as you roll down a window it's open to the elements through the window slit. That's why there are weep holes in the bottom of the door. If any moisture makes it past the window slit it eventually will make it's way out or evaperate. If you seal it all up and water gets in there it will have no where to go which could potentially be an issue. As far as making your own mounts you can use 3/4 mdf with no issues of hitting anything. Depends mostly on the shape of the mount.

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

umrjmac:

The guy who sold me the speakers said it was important that I seal completely my doors. I asked him about details like the rubber seal at the bottom of the window, and he said "it's no big deal, you can never seal it really 100% perfect". So I suppose I'll just have to do my best.

As for the kick panel enclosure with the back 'glassed, that's not a bad idea, though I'm not sure if the airspace would be enough for my speakers. Plus I think I only have the kick panels to put my crossovers.

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the info. I'm gonna make some mounts with 3/4" MDF, that's perfect as I have a board of 3/4" laying in my garage. I'll dynamat the whole area and that should do it.

dragonrage: that picture of the mounts would still be very helpful (when you get home)

umrjmac

iTrader: (2)

Best of luck with the project Let us know how it turns out and, more importantly, sounds

richieg

iTrader: (1)

here's a link to one of my installs. Be sure to check the second page to.
http://www.mobius1.net/gallery/galle...lbum=18&page=2

it might give you an idea on enclosures.

Richiec77

iTrader: (3)

Nice install on the door. That's the only way you'll ever get a 100% sealed chamber. Good install overall. Nice work.

You are really never going to be able to have the doors completely sealed and still retain a window that goes up and down without doing an enclosure like above. Plus it's not need 100% to use the Focal speaker. I would look into making a better baffle like others have mentioned and to dampen the area to cut down on resonace. If the sound isn't to your liking, try making a baffle to see how it would sound and then proceed from there.

But, if you are good at working with fiberglass, then go for the above type of install.

dragonrage

Well, I just got home, about 3AM, so I didn't have time to take any pictures, but mine looks similar to richieg's (though a bit more amateur-ish looking), so just do like him.

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the info, guys! The photos were really helpful. I'm gonna think about it some more, and will post pics as soon as it's done

kyle_l

I'm in the middle of my install and I've found a couple other places for the crossovers. Depending on the size, there is room behind the glovebox for a couple. There is also room in the center of the dash, on either side of the climate controls (at least in a TA). I'm putting in CDTs with their upstage system, so I have four crossovers to mount up front, which is why I'm looking for mounting points, but this might be useful to you as well if you wanted to free up the kick panel area for other things.

umrjmac

iTrader: (2)

Regarding crossover location, I put mine under the plastic side panel by the rear seats under the styrofoam support for the armrest. My amplifiers are in the rear and this gave me a convenient spot to place them that would not interfere with...well anything, honestly and they are midway between the amp and speakers.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

First of all the 165KP are not designed for a sealed enclosure, they are an infinite baffle speaker. So don't bother trying to seal up your doors.

You can build sealed enclosures along the bottom of the doors if you want, but it's very dificult. Going sealed allows you to the Utopia mids. They are made for sealed enclosures and should have a slightly smoother sound, but lack a little on the bottom end.

The 165KP should drop right into the stock speaker pods and clear the door panel. There's really no need to make a custon baffle unless your running an odd size like my old Diamond Audio HEX's which were oversized and a new baffle had to be made.

What you need to focus on is making sure the door does not resonate. Cover the entire inner fiber door panel with dynamat or similar as well as put some on the outer door skin. You'll probably need to run some sine wave tones through the drivers once your done and listen for any resonances. Sometimes the wire harness or other things will vibrate.

I put my passive x-overs by the amps and run 4 pair of new wires up front. This makes it easy to tweak the x-over adjustments and do troubleshooting.

The best place for the tweets is definetely the a-pillars. If they are small enough they can be mounted flush.

If your ambitious enough the kickpanels open up into a large cavity that runs to the back of the car under the door sills. This can be used as an infinite baffle mount or you can seal it up with expanding foam and create a sealed enclosure.

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

A big thank-you to you all for your input... especially to JasonWW for the useful info.

The A-pillars is where I was planning to have the tweeters. It saves me having to buy tweeter pods and also I don't want the highs to be too much "in my face".

Yes the 165KP's drop right into the stock speaker pods, but wouldn't a new bracket made of MDF provide a more stable, vibration-free frame for the speakers? I mean, it's little work, so if it improves only slightly the sound then surely it must be worth it?...

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I've got the same setup as you and I don't have any vibrations or resonances from them. One thing you can do, but I haven't felt the need is an old trick of mine for adding mass. Figure out where on the plastic pod you have extra room so the door panel doesn't hit it, scuff up the plastic, mix up some bondo with a bunch of BB's (you know for BB guns) and then pack it into the areas you can. It will make the plastic speaker pod real heavy, real quick.

This also works real well packed into the depressions of rattle trap doors like in Honda's. I may still do my pods like that, but just haven't felt the need.

You can also sand off the black paper felt from the back side of the grill covers.

mindreaper

iTrader: (1)

JasonWW: thanks so much for your input, much appreciated! The bondo idea for reinforcing speaker pods is a good one, as they feel kinda flimsy. I'll most likely remove the black paper felt from the grille covers as this probably robs some of the sound!