600 whp Turbo 3v loses to 5th Gen camaro - LS1TECH

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600 whp Turbo 3v loses to 5th Gen camaro

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Old 03-24-2012, 03:55 AM   #1
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Default 600 whp Turbo 3v loses to 5th Gen camaro

Background:
First kill on the new engine... lots of **** talking back and forth with this guy, we decided to finally run em. He finally got his **** together too, so it was a run what you brung kind of night.




Mustang:

Built 3v (some fancy saleen ****)
Cool intake
67mm snail pushing whatever pump gas allows (10-11psi?)
Manual
~620rwhp
Click the image to open in full size.

Camaro:
429, weight reduction (~3600),
Huge stall 4L80.
~590rwhp
Click the image to open in full size.
Both cars had a 220lb passenger


The cars
Click the image to open in full size.

The video (not very exciting, dont like this new camera loc... obviously he never comes close to getting in front) Camaro puts ~3 cars on mustang to 140
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERMQ_6Vaz2Y

The aftermath, mustang ended up with a hurt cylinder a few minutes later on the way back. The camaro pushed the valve cover gasket out and sprayed some oil everywhere (needs better PCV).

We towed it home with my buddy's.... Chevy truck. Priceless.
Click the image to open in full size.

Rematch to come sometime soon when he fixed his **** and I add some more pcv vent.
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Last edited by DietCoke; 03-24-2012 at 04:29 AM..
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Old 03-24-2012, 04:07 AM   #2
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Typical results

Good kill
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:35 AM   #3
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Nice kill, you're car looks like it moves pretty good.
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:11 AM   #4
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Just another mustang of the roads! .
good kill to.. i agree on the camera needs to find a much better position
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:23 AM   #5
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Your car sounds very healthy, nice kill.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:48 AM   #6
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Nice kill 'coke, not that I was surprised though: Big cube N/A power stomps the hell out of similiar turbo power any day of the week.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3f0JqpRAQ
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:48 AM   #7
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You car looks and runs great. Will watch for the rematch.
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:00 AM   #8
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Damn OP, your car sounds good and looks like it moves out pretty good.
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Old 03-25-2012, 02:22 PM   #9
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nice, car moves out and sounds good OP
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:14 PM   #10
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Your car runs good and sounds nice too. Nice kill
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones View Post
Nice kill 'coke, not that I was surprised though: Big cube N/A power stomps the hell out of similiar turbo power any day of the week.
You might want to get to the track and test that theory of yours. I think you will find quite the opposite. Two properly setup cars...one n/a and one turbo...turbo wins.
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
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You might want to get to the track and test that theory of yours. I think you will find quite the opposite. Two properly setup cars...one n/a and one turbo...turbo wins.
So you are saying that with same hp and weight, that a naturally aspirated car is gonna lose to a turbo car? Stop smoking the funny stuff man. We aint talking about 9,000 rpm hondas here: big cube big torque naturally aspirated is gonna win ever time with everything else equal.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3f0JqpRAQ
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #13
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turbo car will trap the hell out of n/a any day. I think similar power would be pretty close.
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Last edited by why87; 03-25-2012 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
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turbo=second half track car. They will trap the hell out of n/a any day. I think similar power would be pretty close.
again I'll say it: they will NOT outtrap a N/A that makes similiar power if they weights are the same. Period. Can't believe I have to even tell you guys why as any turbo guy intimately knows the drawbacks that I'm talking about...

Naturally aspirated has a billion times better throttle response, the kind of instant power that turbo guys can only enviously "try" to emulate. there is never EVER ANY power drop off because you changed gears or let up on the gas. Power is seamlessly tied into what your foot is doing and it's not a game of yo-yo with the driver of the turbo car trying desperately to match his delayed onput power output to his traction limits.

And do we even have to mention all the issues with heatsoak? Or the problems that require meth or racegas to overcome, and all the different tunes a turbo guy carries around for different occasions?

Turbo's and superchargers are the tools one uses when they can't get to the power level they want without using them.

Quite similar to the reasons Viagra is such a popular subscription.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3f0JqpRAQ
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:11 PM   #15
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Look at how many turbo cars trap higher than n/a cars when they run similar et's...they definitely move better on the back end. Not necessarily saying the turbo cars are better.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why87 View Post
Look at how many turbo cars trap higher than n/a cars when they run similar et's...they definitely move better on the back end. Not necessarily saying the turbo cars are better.
Will somebody else chime in here?

For the purpose of this conversation regarding fast street cars: trap speed is based upon your horsepower to weight ratio. If one car traps higher then the other car and they both have the same elapsed time, then the higher trapping car is less efficient at using it's available power. Your argument actually proves my point!

Turbo guys have tons of tricks and mods that they use to try and minimize there deficiencies. They KNOW they are at a disadvantage and try to work around it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc3f0JqpRAQ
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks n Stones View Post
Will somebody else chime in here?

For the purpose of this conversation regarding fast street cars: trap speed is based upon your horsepower to weight ratio. If one car traps higher then the other car and they both have the same elapsed time, then the higher trapping car is less efficient at using it's available power. Your argument actually proves my point!

Turbo guys have tons of tricks and mods that they use to try and minimize there deficiencies. They KNOW they are at a disadvantage and try to work around it.
I think we might be arguing two different points here.......I'm saying turbo cars roll hard on the back end and that's their advantage over an n/a car. They may get pulled out of the hole but roll right back around on the 2nd half of the track. Big broad powerband with an auto
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Last edited by why87; 03-25-2012 at 10:42 PM..
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:29 PM   #18
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wouldnt a well set up turbo or supercharger, have no lagg? at least on a auto?
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I guess what I'm getting at is if your car is spinning due to the cold and/or running craptastic brand tires coupled with him shifting like Michael J. Fox playing wack-a-mole then it's probably going to be highly unpredictable.
best 1/8th 8.52 gotta learn to stop spinning
best 1/4 : 13.35 vs the ZL1 at 12.5
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why87 View Post
I think we might be arguing two different points here.......I'm saying turbo cars roll hard on the back end and that's their advantage over an n/a car. They may get pulled out of the hole but roll right back around on the 2nd half of the track. I think that's what Unit was alluding to.
Im going with sticks and stones on this one. Think about it..
as n/a gets out of the whole better and also keeps up that power as they go down the track. They have no power drop off until they shift or let off.
turbo cars dont have the same throttle response as n/a as the turbo has to spool up and by that time, the n/a car is gone. There is no reason why a turbo car with the same power and weight would catch up as it is making the SAME power. It would keep up if they were side by side doing a roll under perfect conditions with the same drivers as they make the same power in that point in time, but in a 1/4 race its n/a all the way.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unit213 View Post
You might want to get to the track and test that theory of yours. I think you will find quite the opposite. Two properly setup cars...one n/a and one turbo...turbo wins.
There's a cetain N/A HOSS Camaro that runs faster times than most of the Turbo / Nitrous guys in the LSX series..
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:09 PM
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