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n2o 2010 SS vs n20 Formula WS6 *vid*

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Old 04-04-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default n2o 2010 SS vs n20 Formula WS6 *vid*

I filmed this race a while ago, but the owner of the 5th gen likes to keep his setup under wraps so he said I could post it but if left up to him he'd rather it not be posted.

However, now he's building a new setup that looks like it's going to be 10x faster...big $$ build ....so I don't think he'll have a problem with me posting this since the car no longer has the setup.

SAMSEL450R (Formula WS6)-Cameracar
6 speed
3.73s
27" Hoosier QTPs
AFR 205s
Pat G cam
little weight out
150 shot with NANO
-made 591/608 on spray

8500LBS 2010 Camaro SS
6 speed
"cam only"
??? shot nitrous***
DRs on Bogarts

***I don't have particulars on the setup, since like I said, he kept it under wraps. There were some that new, he always claimed it was "cam only" but kind of obvious it isn't...oh well, it rolls the F out.


WS6 spun a bit on the first run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgGW7biPYOs
Old 04-04-2012, 06:40 PM
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Nice to see a 5th gen cranking out!

Any pics of Samsel's car? WS6 Formulas are nice.
Old 04-04-2012, 06:46 PM
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Umm here's a shitty one from my phone from the track.





edit: I think he has some on his facebook that are decent, one sec...






Old 04-04-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
Nice to see a 5th gen cranking out!
I was thinking the same thing....99% are bolt on cars it seems.

And that formula WS6 =
Old 04-04-2012, 07:12 PM
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Dammmm now thatll be nice!! M6??
Old 04-04-2012, 07:13 PM
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Sorry about that berly seen it
Old 04-04-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NightmareTA
I was thinking the same thing....99% are bolt on cars it seems.
Yeah, his new build is a step or 2 above bolt-on status.


Originally Posted by 8500lbs
Camaro Build Thread

I first and foremost would like to give Chad (QuickZOh6) at CBI huge thanks for all of his help in this project. Without his assistance none of this would be possible. He has not only helped me with the decision process on parts but would take the time to explain why he liked one product over the next and what makes it so special. For a first time “Big Project” this meant a lot to me, as it gave me a more in depth understanding of what is really going on. Through the selection process I have talked and bounced ideas with several other people as well. Tony (BLK_03), Javan (Scorch), Jason (Phantasm), Steck (DSteck), Reinier (Reinier), and Wes (TheCrustyPirate) all deserve a thank you as well. Many texts and Phone calls exchanged with all of these gentlemen.

The first Part of the process was to look at the foundation. This started with the block and rotating assembly. The Stock GM cube motor I have can handle plenty of power but I wanted more and the comfort of not worrying if I am pushing it too hard. This led me to the GM LSX block. For those who are not familiar with it, it is a Iron Block from GM featuring:

• Fully CNC-machined cast iron block
• True priority main oiling
• 6-head bolts per cylinder
• Standard 4.400" bore spacing
• Extra-thick Siamese cylinder bores, ready for final honing
• Semi-finished, machined thicker decks
• LS7-style, 6-bolt dowel-located billet main bearing caps
• Wet-sump and dry-sump oiling capability
• Production-style deep-skirt head bolt holes
• Production bolt hole and thread sizes
• Maintains production exterior accessory mounting provisions
• Front motor plate mounting holes added
• Additional material cast around cam bearings for greater strength
• 8mm exterior/interior fifth- and sixth-head bolt holes
• All five cam bores machined for bearing P/N 19167218 (supplied)
• Standard 0.842" lifter bores
• Accommodates all LS oil pumps and oil pans
• External oil pump feed (rear of block)
• Main web bay-to-bay breathing holes to support greater horsepower
• Includes unique cam retainer, rear cover, lifter retainers and production style replacement cam bearings
• Front oil feed holes can be plugged/restricted for mechanical flat tappet or mechanical roller lifter applications
• Can be machined safely to 9.200" deck height
• Maximum 4.200" bore at .200" minimum wall thickness (naturally aspirated applications)
• Head bolt holes can be machined for 1/2" studs
• Cam bores can be machined to accept 60mm roller bearings
• Can be machined for larger diameter lifters and/or 1.060" bronze bushings
• Front oil feed lines can be plugged and external oil pump and/or aftermarket dry sump systems can be used via oil pump feed at rear of block-may be required with certain large stroke/aluminum rod combinations
• Belt cam drive systems can be accommodated-some machining will be required
• Front motor plate can be used for racing chassis applications (sprint car, drag racing, truck pulling, etc.)
• Threaded water plugs can be used for external heaters or coolers
• Extra stock for main bearing align-honed
• Orange Powder Coated


And it looks something like this







So with the block decided the next step was to determine the rotating assembly. This was a difficult decision because it also determines what, if any, power adder I would like to do. Originally I was going to duplicate what CBI Chad had in his ZO6 but he suggested we try something different. This suggestion lead to the conclusion of building a 427. The First component I wanted to get for the rotating assembly was the crank. Queue the Dragon Slayer. The Manufacturer low down on the Dragon Slayer goes like this:

• DragonSlayer crankshafts are made in the U.S.A. for American Racers. With an expanded line of part numbers, the DragonSlayer is rapidly setting the standard by which other Sportsman crankshafts are measured.
• These shafts are machined to the tolerances demanded by today’s high performance engine builder. Roundness and taper are held to less than .0003 on all rod and main journal diameters. Our final polishing procedures produce excellent load carrying surfaces that ensure extended bearing life and trouble free operation.
• Each DragonSlayer features the Callies Ultra-Case nitride treatment. This heat treatment method produces a deep case that enhances strength while creating an extremely hard load bearing wear surface. The Ultra-Case process generates a layer of hardened steel deep enough to maintain its integrity even after a -.010 regrind.
• Callies heat treat expertise combined with our high purity premium 4340 forging produce strength of unparalleled value

Things that I found neat to look at on the crank are





The oil holes in the journals are chamfered to allow for better oiling. That can be seen here where oppose to just a standard hole is used there is a cavity created for oil escape and squeeze between the bearing and journal. For those that don’t know, this is critical because the crank actually rides on a thin film/layer of oil oppose to the bearing itself.





Another Beautiful attribute to the crank is the machine work. You can see that this CNC machine carved this out of a block from the bit lines left as seen here.



The final point I would like to bring your attention to is the milling of the counter balance on the crank to aid in the crank slicing through the oil oppose to more or less slapping it.



The next step was to choose the appropriate rods for the motor. There are many different rod manufacturers and several that have been proven to handle well beyond the limits I would like to push this motor. It came down to three different rods to choose from. The Compustar HD I-Beam, Lunati Pro Billet, and the Oliver parabolic beam Rods. After a few consultations with several different forum members and shops the final decision was made to use the Oliver Rods. They are a 6.125” length with standard Pin and Journal. They look like this,





Old 04-04-2012, 07:17 PM
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Continued...

Originally Posted by 8500lbs
One thing neat that I noticed on the rods that I was not expecting was on the rod bolts. I knew that they were ARP Rods bolts but noticed Oliver had inscribed their logo onto the head of the bolt as well.



I wanted to order the pistons next, however, all piston manufacturers wanted to know the cam specs before recommending or designing a piston. No idea where to start on a cam or if I should just use a shelf cam or custom grind I asked the group again and researched as much as I could. All fingers pointed to Pat G. So to Pat G I went and he promptly Spec’d out a cam for my build, and a couple weeks later it was on my door steps. So this is a custom grind cam from Comp with HUC lobes. Yeah, that one took some research and it was pretty neat. The HUC lobes are designed to help settle down the valve train at higher RPM. They change the ramp rate to help set the valve down and pick it up oppose to just dropping it or slamming it shut. This is a glimpse of the Pat G Cam next to a stock GM cam. It is hard to notice a difference at all but it there.





Then on to the Pistons! This is the part that I spent most of my time on and asked the most questions about. These little babies are my pride and joy! Looked at several different manufacturers and settled on JE. After deciding on which supplier to use for the pistons I then had to decide to use a shelf Piston or Custom design a one off set for my application. Reading into Swirl, Quench, Compression, Dish, Dome, and so forth got me dizzy quick. So I talked to Chad and Tony here. Tony gave me great points to use and design the piston around that he had learned from his experience. I had decided that I didn’t want to settle or use a piston that would just work so began the process to design or spec out my own piston that was only intended for my setup and my setup alone. I talked to JE several times on the matter and they were great in assisting me as well. The highlights of these jems are:
Ceramic thermal barrier tops to help reduce heat from the piston



Hard skirt coatings to helps prevent wear and oil hanging on.



Thicker Piston walls



And lateral gas ports to help aide in sealing in pressure. The vertical gas ports are reported to get clogged, rendering them useless, in street cars.



The rest you have to pay to see, lol. The next area for attention was the Pins to hold the piston to the rod. JE had several options with all of their own draw backs and features. I ended up with the upgraded 52 series straight wall pin. They are also made of the thickest material that JE had for this. Nothing special looking but look like this none the less.



The ring set recommended to me to use was the Hellfire ring set made by total seal I believe. JE Sent the set along with the pistons. The Second Ring is a Napier cut Ring, look it up. I didn’t get a picture of this as I don’t have a macro lens. The point in the napier cut is a double duty. It will help some with sealing as well as the scrapper design helps remove excess oil from the cylinder wall.

This is all I have for now. There are many more things in play but I just choose not to discuss them until they are in my hands. Thank you for reading, and hope you enjoyed.
Old 04-04-2012, 07:19 PM
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Didn't realize he had a thread on this site. Obviously it will see boost being in the FI section

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...cky-bobby.html
Old 04-04-2012, 07:26 PM
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Damn, he's not screwing around.
Old 04-04-2012, 07:42 PM
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WOW Crazy mods
Old 04-04-2012, 08:14 PM
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Wish I had his kind of moola. He probably has more into that motor than I do into my frame up resto'd 86 TA!
Old 04-04-2012, 08:32 PM
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Damn that build is no joke and also never seen SAMSEL450R take a loss , that sucks I really like that formula ! Dude drives that **** like it was stolen !
Old 04-04-2012, 08:40 PM
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So the 10 is running a big shot?
Old 04-04-2012, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BayArea ws6
Damn that build is no joke and also never seen SAMSEL450R take a loss , that sucks I really like that formula ! Dude drives that **** like it was stolen !
It is rare. I have another video of him losing to a procharged ls1 t/a, he thought he had enough in the bottle for 1 race...but he didn't.

Originally Posted by automach1
So the 10 is running a big shot?
Most likely. Again, Samsel made 591/608 so to get that tank moving...you do the math.
Old 04-04-2012, 09:28 PM
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bad *** build for sure. Pat G is the man as always.



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