350z vs mustang gt vs z28 vids
09-05-2006, 02:47 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by LSINA7
None of this done on pump fuel, but there are race car 2 Liter DSM's that make 600-800 whp and run all season. And Supras have been known to make tons of power and still be reliable. I remember in SCC, Peter Blach made 957 whp on the stock internals, and put a significant amount of miles on the car. Also, MVP's old car had like 170K miles on it and it made over 900 whp. Also, Ryan Woon's car makes over 1300 whp and his motors last a long time. And last, but not least, Marko made tons of power, over and over, and never had any motor problems until his 1520 whp pull. Can you say 1900 Crank Horsepower? And he drove that car on the street.
Now when you say "Prolonged periods of time", I agree. But that could go with anything, even 400-500 hp LS1's.
Now when you say "Prolonged periods of time", I agree. But that could go with anything, even 400-500 hp LS1's.
The car may be capable of 900rwhp or what ever but only in it's most agrssive mode on maximum boot, for street use I'll wager that via a flick of a switch on the dash the boost is dropped and they would be lucky to be making 500rwhp ALL OF THE TIME.
Think about it, a forged/built LS1 with 400rwhp add a 350-400 shot of nitrous and tada!!!! You have yourself a 800rwhp monster. But it won't be capable of making 800rwhp all of the time and surviving.
Electronic boost control is just another form. I've been in many cars that use it. A mate had a RS Escort Turbo a few years back with 2 dash switches employing 3 different boost programs. And varied from ~140bhp for the lowest level to over 220bhp for the highest (crappy 1.6 Ford cross flow engine). The numbers might not be big but percentage terms is huge.
09-05-2006, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LSINA7
This is also true. But there are exceptions. Size is easier to make power. And most of the time will make it will be more reliable. But, strength of parts is also a factor. Honda's parts are cheap for a reason. The **** is cheap. Take a Supra's high hp reliability, and it will hold with the best of the V8's with twice of more than twice the displacement.
The Honda in my previous post didn't have "cheap Honda parts", it wasnt a stock bottom end. It was completely built even to the point of having a "prepped" block. The same companies you can buy forged bottom end parts from for your LS1, SBC, 302, whatever also make those same parts for Honda motors, in case you didn't know.
My point was that even "fully built", a smaller c.i. "econo" motor won't last like a larger c.i. motor. The way that the engines are engineered and designed accounts for this.
One analogy would be to say that if you could hypotheitcally build a Briggs & Stratton engine with all forged parts, and added a power adder, you might be able to make the same HP as a traditional low horsepower inline four (see Geo Metro, Suzuki Samurai). But it's obviously not going to last the 200k+ miles that the stock 4 will that displaces more.
In short, you're taking an engine that's designed to do one thing, and trying to make it do something it's not designed for.
You keep mentioning Supra's. The engineering that went into that motor can't even begin to be compared to a B16 or H22. Also, remember, the Supra was designed to be a sports car and support a higher level of HP.
And yes, every engine has it's limits. For larger c.i. engines this can be seen in things like NHRA dragsters that are making 10,000 HP and have to be rebuilt every pass. They have virtually no longevity. That limit for smaller c.i. "econo" motors is far far less.
09-05-2006, 03:16 PM
#43
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I love this kind of **** Effortless power is the name of the game.
Yes you can get several hundred HP out of a small 4 Banger, buts its maxing the engine out. Even if the internals are forged and it has the works, there's only so much a couple liter engine can take.
In the long run more cubes = more power + longer life because of less overall strain.
_________
Yes Supra's can run 600-800 HP, but they have Intercooled Twin Turbo's plus larger 3.0 V-6 DOHC engines. Those engines are made to run those Turbo's.
Just like the 4V Cobra can brush off 15 PSI.
Either way
if you put the same Turbo's on a V-8, you'd have more power.
Turbo's make the most HP at High RPMs, but engine's lose thier life the higher RPM's they see.
That why I like S/C on V-8's for street cars, because S/C's run of the crank and the power is there at all RPMS...
( Not saying that a Turbo doesnt net you any less/more power )
It's all a big gamble.
But for an LT1/LS1 to run 9's and 10's for a couple thousand is just damn impressive to me.
Yes you can get several hundred HP out of a small 4 Banger, buts its maxing the engine out. Even if the internals are forged and it has the works, there's only so much a couple liter engine can take.
In the long run more cubes = more power + longer life because of less overall strain.
_________
Yes Supra's can run 600-800 HP, but they have Intercooled Twin Turbo's plus larger 3.0 V-6 DOHC engines. Those engines are made to run those Turbo's.
Just like the 4V Cobra can brush off 15 PSI.
Either way
if you put the same Turbo's on a V-8, you'd have more power.
Turbo's make the most HP at High RPMs, but engine's lose thier life the higher RPM's they see.
That why I like S/C on V-8's for street cars, because S/C's run of the crank and the power is there at all RPMS...
( Not saying that a Turbo doesnt net you any less/more power )
It's all a big gamble.
But for an LT1/LS1 to run 9's and 10's for a couple thousand is just damn impressive to me.
09-05-2006, 03:19 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
I'm sorry I still don't believe it, and its because there's a thing called electronic boost control.
The car may be capable of 900rwhp or what ever but only in it's most agrssive mode on maximum boot, for street use I'll wager that via a flick of a switch on the dash the boost is dropped and they would be lucky to be making 500rwhp ALL OF THE TIME.
Think about it, a forged/built LS1 with 400rwhp add a 350-400 shot of nitrous and tada!!!! You have yourself a 800rwhp monster. But it won't be capable of making 800rwhp all of the time and surviving.
Electronic boost control is just another form. I've been in many cars that use it. A mate had a RS Escort Turbo a few years back with 2 dash switches employing 3 different boost programs. And varied from ~140bhp for the lowest level to over 220bhp for the highest (crappy 1.6 Ford cross flow engine). The numbers might not be big but percentage terms is huge.
The car may be capable of 900rwhp or what ever but only in it's most agrssive mode on maximum boot, for street use I'll wager that via a flick of a switch on the dash the boost is dropped and they would be lucky to be making 500rwhp ALL OF THE TIME.
Think about it, a forged/built LS1 with 400rwhp add a 350-400 shot of nitrous and tada!!!! You have yourself a 800rwhp monster. But it won't be capable of making 800rwhp all of the time and surviving.
Electronic boost control is just another form. I've been in many cars that use it. A mate had a RS Escort Turbo a few years back with 2 dash switches employing 3 different boost programs. And varied from ~140bhp for the lowest level to over 220bhp for the highest (crappy 1.6 Ford cross flow engine). The numbers might not be big but percentage terms is huge.
09-05-2006, 03:23 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by COMNBYU
The Honda in my previous post didn't have "cheap Honda parts", it wasnt a stock bottom end. It was completely built even to the point of having a "prepped" block. The same companies you can buy forged bottom end parts from for your LS1, SBC, 302, whatever also make those same parts for Honda motors, in case you didn't know.
My point was that even "fully built", a smaller c.i. "econo" motor won't last like a larger c.i. motor. The way that the engines are engineered and designed accounts for this.
One analogy would be to say that if you could hypotheitcally build a Briggs & Stratton engine with all forged parts, and added a power adder, you might be able to make the same HP as a traditional low horsepower inline four (see Geo Metro, Suzuki Samurai). But it's obviously not going to last the 200k+ miles that the stock 4 will that displaces more.
In short, you're taking an engine that's designed to do one thing, and trying to make it do something it's not designed for.
You keep mentioning Supra's. The engineering that went into that motor can't even begin to be compared to a B16 or H22. Also, remember, the Supra was designed to be a sports car and support a higher level of HP.
And yes, every engine has it's limits. For larger c.i. engines this can be seen in things like NHRA dragsters that are making 10,000 HP and have to be rebuilt every pass. They have virtually no longevity. That limit for smaller c.i. "econo" motors is far far less.
My point was that even "fully built", a smaller c.i. "econo" motor won't last like a larger c.i. motor. The way that the engines are engineered and designed accounts for this.
One analogy would be to say that if you could hypotheitcally build a Briggs & Stratton engine with all forged parts, and added a power adder, you might be able to make the same HP as a traditional low horsepower inline four (see Geo Metro, Suzuki Samurai). But it's obviously not going to last the 200k+ miles that the stock 4 will that displaces more.
In short, you're taking an engine that's designed to do one thing, and trying to make it do something it's not designed for.
You keep mentioning Supra's. The engineering that went into that motor can't even begin to be compared to a B16 or H22. Also, remember, the Supra was designed to be a sports car and support a higher level of HP.
And yes, every engine has it's limits. For larger c.i. engines this can be seen in things like NHRA dragsters that are making 10,000 HP and have to be rebuilt every pass. They have virtually no longevity. That limit for smaller c.i. "econo" motors is far far less.
What I meant by cheap Honda parts, is that the stock stuff, motors/parts, weren't meant to handle the power. But I understand what you are saying. Most c.i. with more power=longetivity.
But I can't believe a prepped block race car Honda can't hold 500 hp, when last year through the full race year the black civic in the NDRA street class made 600+ whp and is still running fine on the same motor.
09-05-2006, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
I'm sorry I still don't believe it, and its because there's a thing called electronic boost control.
The car may be capable of 900rwhp or what ever but only in it's most agrssive mode on maximum boot, for street use I'll wager that via a flick of a switch on the dash the boost is dropped and they would be lucky to be making 500rwhp ALL OF THE TIME.
The car may be capable of 900rwhp or what ever but only in it's most agrssive mode on maximum boot, for street use I'll wager that via a flick of a switch on the dash the boost is dropped and they would be lucky to be making 500rwhp ALL OF THE TIME.
Another thing that everyone seems to forget, when importees say "I make all of this power, and beat you with only 1.8 - 3 liters" is that boost/turbo size is counted as displacement, geniuses. If it were not, the FIA would not impose "multiplication factors" in their rules for forced induction and multiple valves per cylinder. Think about it!
Anyway, I've heard that some of the 2.1 BDT Cossies in the RS200 rallycross cars were making up to 800whp and finishing (winning?) the races. But they obviously needed rebuilding after every meet, and NEVER claimed to be anywhere near street legal, nor running on 93 octane!!
09-05-2006, 03:45 PM
#47
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Cool vids, don't care what cars are racing when I can actually see them. Sick of all these vids where all you can see are two tail or head lights.
It take anyone else forever to load them though? Could be just the hosting site, but it took me like 5 minutes to buffer a vid, and then it was only 50% downloaded for a 25 sec video clip. Maybe they need to be ran through a video compression app if they're over a few megs.
It take anyone else forever to load them though? Could be just the hosting site, but it took me like 5 minutes to buffer a vid, and then it was only 50% downloaded for a 25 sec video clip. Maybe they need to be ran through a video compression app if they're over a few megs.
09-05-2006, 05:48 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
I'm with you on this. It's the "telephone game" all over again with the urban legends of stock block 1500 rwhp Poopras being driven around on the streets, all of the time, at those power and boost levels, on pump gas no less, lasting 200K+ miles like that! BULL F'IN $h!t!!!!
Another thing that everyone seems to forget, when importees say "I make all of this power, and beat you with only 1.8 - 3 liters" is that boost/turbo size is counted as displacement, geniuses. If it were not, the FIA would not impose "multiplication factors" in their rules for forced induction and multiple valves per cylinder. Think about it!
Anyway, I've heard that some of the 2.1 BDT Cossies in the RS200 rallycross cars were making up to 800whp and finishing (winning?) the races. But they obviously needed rebuilding after every meet, and NEVER claimed to be anywhere near street legal, nor running on 93 octane!!
Another thing that everyone seems to forget, when importees say "I make all of this power, and beat you with only 1.8 - 3 liters" is that boost/turbo size is counted as displacement, geniuses. If it were not, the FIA would not impose "multiplication factors" in their rules for forced induction and multiple valves per cylinder. Think about it!
Anyway, I've heard that some of the 2.1 BDT Cossies in the RS200 rallycross cars were making up to 800whp and finishing (winning?) the races. But they obviously needed rebuilding after every meet, and NEVER claimed to be anywhere near street legal, nor running on 93 octane!!
As to 25psi, you're a troll and nothing more. Everyone, just put him on your ignore list and it's all better. 
09-05-2006, 06:35 PM
#50
Originally Posted by BeavermanA
Cool vids, don't care what cars are racing when I can actually see them. Sick of all these vids where all you can see are two tail or head lights.
BTW the 350Z is mine (I'm not a member on here to talk ****, or start anything, just most of the guys I hang around drive LS1 cars) the speeds were picked by the cars I raced (would have been low rolls if I would have picked, my Z is alot better from a 25 roll) but I was happy with how my car did this past weekend.
for those of you that liked that TT Cobra heres more of it
https://ls1tech.com/forums/multimedia-exchange/569840-hp-twin-t57-03-cobra-vs-kb-2-2-nx-60-shot-automatic-03-cobra.html
the Cobra is badass
09-05-2006, 09:02 PM
#52
Originally Posted by wvutransam
Since this is LS1 tech, how about some races of you vs. LS1s.....
I went right before the 3 honk so I got a jump. I have tryed getting a rematch but he just won't do it. Not saying I will win (I know better) but I would love to find a stock LS1 to run just for the hell of it
09-05-2006, 10:13 PM
#53
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I'm not exactly stock but im not a heavily modded car and i live in pensacola, fl. Just minutes away from you if you would like to set up a race let me know.
(edit: Not trying to be a dick or call you out i'm just saying i'm nearly stock and would be willing to race you. I had another car a lot like yours saying he wanted to race me but he backed out and i would like to see how close it would be.)
(edit: Not trying to be a dick or call you out i'm just saying i'm nearly stock and would be willing to race you. I had another car a lot like yours saying he wanted to race me but he backed out and i would like to see how close it would be.)
Last edited by 01ghostwhitez; 09-05-2006 at 11:02 PM.
09-05-2006, 10:40 PM
#54
Originally Posted by jksstar
http://media.putfile.com/trans-am-vs-03-350z
I went right before the 3 honk so I got a jump. I have tryed getting a rematch but he just won't do it. Not saying I will win (I know better) but I would love to find a stock LS1 to run just for the hell of it
I went right before the 3 honk so I got a jump. I have tryed getting a rematch but he just won't do it. Not saying I will win (I know better) but I would love to find a stock LS1 to run just for the hell of it
09-05-2006, 11:13 PM
#55
Originally Posted by 01ghostwhitez
I'm not exactly stock but im not a heavily modded car and i live in pensacola, fl. Just minutes away from you if you would like to set up a race let me know.
(edit: Not trying to be a dick or call you out i'm just saying i'm nearly stock and would be willing to race you. I had another car a lot like yours saying he wanted to race me but he backed out and i would like to see how close it would be.)
(edit: Not trying to be a dick or call you out i'm just saying i'm nearly stock and would be willing to race you. I had another car a lot like yours saying he wanted to race me but he backed out and i would like to see how close it would be.)
I hang out with all the guys in Pensacola and I'm over there almost every weekend. I don't think I will make it over this weekend but should be over next. I'll send you a pm before to let you know
I see John tuned your car, I know I will lose now
09-06-2006, 04:08 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by LSINA7
I understand that too. But the only vehicles you would ever use at full power all the time would be race cars. None of the cars I said use their full power all the time.
And I'll wager that many of these high HP turbo setups have probably never even run with that setup and always have it backed off for street use becuase it's too risky otherwise.
09-06-2006, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
No but they still claim that level of HP, as though there are
And I'll wager that many of these high HP turbo setups have probably never even run with that setup and always have it backed off for street use becuase it's too risky otherwise.
And I'll wager that many of these high HP turbo setups have probably never even run with that setup and always have it backed off for street use becuase it's too risky otherwise.
09-06-2006, 07:01 AM
#58
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I dont know where 25psi went, but I have heard of a pretty nasty 91 Mustang Coupe with a 331/Twin Turbocharged making close to 1100rwhp in Houston that loves to race Supras from rolls. Pretty sure he wouldn't mind racing 25psi's MR2.
09-06-2006, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RED04Z06
I dont know where 25psi went, but I have heard of a pretty nasty 91 Mustang Coupe with a 331/Twin Turbocharged making close to 1100rwhp in Houston that loves to race Supras from rolls. Pretty sure he wouldn't mind racing 25psi's MR2.
09-06-2006, 07:36 AM
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As for this video, my buddy ran 13.70's@101 in a bone stock 00GT@HRP, I have seen MANY 350z's run there and not ONCE have I seen a true stock one run 13's, maybe they are just bad drivers but from what I have seen with my own two eyes a 99+ Mustang GT and a 350Z is pretty much a drivers race. My 98 GT with a99+ Motor, X-Pipe, Flows, and gears ran 13.20'@105 all day on 17" wheels.