Upper and Lower A ARMS
12-21-2008, 09:00 AM
#1
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Upper and Lower A ARMS Is it worth getting the new Upper A-arm and or the lower A arm? I have the pan bar, control arms, front and back sway bars on my 02 Firehawk. Everything so far has improved the car alot. It is a D/D car. I have done a search and there is not much info on people doing them That I can find. Thanks
12-21-2008, 09:08 AM
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From what little I've seen there is a minimal weight savings on
one (lower?) and none on the other (upper?), and have seen
a thread recently about lowers bending at the spring load
point (flimsy perch boss, on some model or other). Probably
a low return on money spent; never seen anyone say what
performance improvement might be had, other than the
plain weight (very small) for the price (substantial).
one (lower?) and none on the other (upper?), and have seen
a thread recently about lowers bending at the spring load
point (flimsy perch boss, on some model or other). Probably
a low return on money spent; never seen anyone say what
performance improvement might be had, other than the
plain weight (very small) for the price (substantial).
12-21-2008, 09:38 AM
#3
From what little I've seen there is a minimal weight savings on
one (lower?) and none on the other (upper?), and have seen
a thread recently about lowers bending at the spring load
point (flimsy perch boss, on some model or other). Probably
a low return on money spent; never seen anyone say what
performance improvement might be had, other than the
plain weight (very small) for the price (substantial).
one (lower?) and none on the other (upper?), and have seen
a thread recently about lowers bending at the spring load
point (flimsy perch boss, on some model or other). Probably
a low return on money spent; never seen anyone say what
performance improvement might be had, other than the
plain weight (very small) for the price (substantial).
Also dont forget that ours are made to work with drag brake kits with no modification
__________________
Glenn ***
Sales Tech
www.bmrsuspension.com
813.986.9302
Find a Quality alignment shop near you!
Glenn ***
Sales Tech
www.bmrsuspension.com
813.986.9302
Find a Quality alignment shop near you!
12-21-2008, 11:46 AM
#4
The upper arms allow more Negative camber, and caster adjustment.
And the lower arms allow you drop a few pounds up front.
That's it!
IMO, the biggest improvement you'll notice up front would be from replacing any worn out ball-joint, tie-rod end, and control arm bushings.
And the lower arms allow you drop a few pounds up front.
That's it!
IMO, the biggest improvement you'll notice up front would be from replacing any worn out ball-joint, tie-rod end, and control arm bushings.
12-21-2008, 04:08 PM
#5
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
From what little I've seen there is a minimal weight savings on
one (lower?) and none on the other (upper?), and have seen
a thread recently about lowers bending at the spring load
point (flimsy perch boss, on some model or other). Probably
a low return on money spent; never seen anyone say what
performance improvement might be had, other than the
plain weight (very small) for the price (substantial).
one (lower?) and none on the other (upper?), and have seen
a thread recently about lowers bending at the spring load
point (flimsy perch boss, on some model or other). Probably
a low return on money spent; never seen anyone say what
performance improvement might be had, other than the
plain weight (very small) for the price (substantial).
The upper arms allow more Negative camber, and caster adjustment.
And the lower arms allow you drop a few pounds up front.
That's it!
IMO, the biggest improvement you'll notice up front would be from replacing any worn out ball-joint, tie-rod end, and control arm bushings.
And the lower arms allow you drop a few pounds up front.
That's it!
IMO, the biggest improvement you'll notice up front would be from replacing any worn out ball-joint, tie-rod end, and control arm bushings.
12-21-2008, 04:54 PM
#6
I've done it !
Global West upper arms with Del-a-lum bushings, and UMI lower A arms in Chrome Moly. I really only needed new lower balljoints and lower front bushings,but it gave me an excuse to ditch the ugly factory lower arms for the sweet looking,and lighter UMI lower A arms!
Currently I'm back to running stock upper arms with G.W. Del-a-lum bushing kit, and the UMI lower A arms.
I went back to stock because the tubular upper arms were preventing full suspension compression travel, and also I wanted to run less than -1.2 neg.(Min.) camber; I'm now at -.9 camber(Max.).
IMO,the lower A arm with the rod-ends do give a little better steering response, but they also transfer noticeably more road noise than stock.
FYI, I've got some upper arms up for grabs if your interested.
Global West upper arms with Del-a-lum bushings, and UMI lower A arms in Chrome Moly. I really only needed new lower balljoints and lower front bushings,but it gave me an excuse to ditch the ugly factory lower arms for the sweet looking,and lighter UMI lower A arms!
Currently I'm back to running stock upper arms with G.W. Del-a-lum bushing kit, and the UMI lower A arms.
I went back to stock because the tubular upper arms were preventing full suspension compression travel, and also I wanted to run less than -1.2 neg.(Min.) camber; I'm now at -.9 camber(Max.).
IMO,the lower A arm with the rod-ends do give a little better steering response, but they also transfer noticeably more road noise than stock.
FYI, I've got some upper arms up for grabs if your interested.
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12-21-2008, 06:48 PM
#8
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
I've done it !
Global West upper arms with Del-a-lum bushings, and UMI lower A arms in Chrome Moly. I really only needed new lower balljoints and lower front bushings,but it gave me an excuse to ditch the ugly factory lower arms for the sweet looking,and lighter UMI lower A arms!
Currently I'm back to running stock upper arms with G.W. Del-a-lum bushing kit, and the UMI lower A arms.
I went back to stock because the tubular upper arms were preventing full suspension compression travel, and also I wanted to run less than -1.2 neg.(Min.) camber; I'm now at -.9 camber(Max.).
IMO,the lower A arm with the rod-ends do give a little better steering response, but they also transfer noticeably more road noise than stock.
FYI, I've got some upper arms up for grabs if your interested.
Global West upper arms with Del-a-lum bushings, and UMI lower A arms in Chrome Moly. I really only needed new lower balljoints and lower front bushings,but it gave me an excuse to ditch the ugly factory lower arms for the sweet looking,and lighter UMI lower A arms!
Currently I'm back to running stock upper arms with G.W. Del-a-lum bushing kit, and the UMI lower A arms.
I went back to stock because the tubular upper arms were preventing full suspension compression travel, and also I wanted to run less than -1.2 neg.(Min.) camber; I'm now at -.9 camber(Max.).
IMO,the lower A arm with the rod-ends do give a little better steering response, but they also transfer noticeably more road noise than stock.
FYI, I've got some upper arms up for grabs if your interested.
had mentioned about the lowers bending at the spring load, I guess I was thinking like you to ditch the ugly factory arms. There seems to be no benefit at all unless mine were worn out which they are not.
12-21-2008, 06:50 PM
#10
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12-23-2008, 10:10 AM
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Frankly, it depends on what exactly the car will be used for. With concerns to handling, I haven't found any of the ones on the aftermarket suitable (with exception to the now discontinued LGM ones), despite manufacturer claims.
Those can indeed make a significant improvement in almost all cases (dependent on design, which is discussed in several other threads).
That's affirmative. In this section much of the useful information from experienced members have been lost amongst the clutter. What I can tell you is that I've been through many different aftermarket uppers and front lowers. Almost all of the aftermarket uppers are heavier and either use poly bushings that add stiction, or use rod-ends which can get really noisy as they age, and can be a royal pain when it comes to alignment. AFA the front lowers, I find the amount of reduction of unsprung weight to sacrifice strength and structural integrity hasn't been worth the tradeoff.
Still to this day, the only improvement I've found to daily driving, AX, and even some RR or even ORR are stock uppers and stock front lowers with either fresh bushings, or Delrin bushings in the uppers (preferably the Sam Strano offset Delrin ones he sells). Only dedicated race cars should make use of the GW spherical bearing kit as it will be really noisy and really doesn't make any noticeable improvement with concerns to daily driving. Moog replacement rubber is good in this location.
And yes, bad ball joints are a major contributor to degraded handling, so those should be inspected and replaced if necessary.
From what you've described already, your next most significant improvement will be a shock and spring change (provided they're properly engineered).
Still to this day, the only improvement I've found to daily driving, AX, and even some RR or even ORR are stock uppers and stock front lowers with either fresh bushings, or Delrin bushings in the uppers (preferably the Sam Strano offset Delrin ones he sells). Only dedicated race cars should make use of the GW spherical bearing kit as it will be really noisy and really doesn't make any noticeable improvement with concerns to daily driving. Moog replacement rubber is good in this location.
And yes, bad ball joints are a major contributor to degraded handling, so those should be inspected and replaced if necessary.
From what you've described already, your next most significant improvement will be a shock and spring change (provided they're properly engineered).
Last edited by Foxxtron; 12-23-2008 at 10:19 AM.
12-23-2008, 01:52 PM
#14
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Frankly, it depends on what exactly the car will be used for. With concerns to handling, I haven't found any of the ones on the aftermarket suitable (with exception to the now discontinued LGM ones), despite manufacturer claims.
Those can indeed make a significant improvement in almost all cases (dependent on design, which is discussed in several other threads).
That's affirmative. In this section much of the useful information from experienced members have been lost amongst the clutter. What I can tell you is that I've been through many different aftermarket uppers and front lowers. Almost all of the aftermarket uppers are heavier and either use poly bushings that add stiction, or use rod-ends which can get really noisy as they age, and can be a royal pain when it comes to alignment. AFA the front lowers, I find the amount of reduction of unsprung weight to sacrifice strength and structural integrity hasn't been worth the tradeoff.
Still to this day, the only improvement I've found to daily driving, AX, and even some RR or even ORR are stock uppers and stock front lowers with either fresh bushings, or Delrin bushings in the uppers (preferably the Sam Strano offset Delrin ones he sells). Only dedicated race cars should make use of the GW spherical bearing kit as it will be really noisy and really doesn't make any noticeable improvement with concerns to daily driving. Moog replacement rubber is good in this location.
And yes, bad ball joints are a major contributor to degraded handling, so those should be inspected and replaced if necessary.
From what you've described already, your next most significant improvement will be a shock and spring change (provided they're properly engineered).
Those can indeed make a significant improvement in almost all cases (dependent on design, which is discussed in several other threads).
That's affirmative. In this section much of the useful information from experienced members have been lost amongst the clutter. What I can tell you is that I've been through many different aftermarket uppers and front lowers. Almost all of the aftermarket uppers are heavier and either use poly bushings that add stiction, or use rod-ends which can get really noisy as they age, and can be a royal pain when it comes to alignment. AFA the front lowers, I find the amount of reduction of unsprung weight to sacrifice strength and structural integrity hasn't been worth the tradeoff.
Still to this day, the only improvement I've found to daily driving, AX, and even some RR or even ORR are stock uppers and stock front lowers with either fresh bushings, or Delrin bushings in the uppers (preferably the Sam Strano offset Delrin ones he sells). Only dedicated race cars should make use of the GW spherical bearing kit as it will be really noisy and really doesn't make any noticeable improvement with concerns to daily driving. Moog replacement rubber is good in this location.
And yes, bad ball joints are a major contributor to degraded handling, so those should be inspected and replaced if necessary.
From what you've described already, your next most significant improvement will be a shock and spring change (provided they're properly engineered).
I am so glad I went with the front 32mm solid sway bar and 22 rear solid sway bar that I just put on the Hawk. I wasn't concerned with weight because of what the Hawk is used for. Also at the same time I put the Tubular lower control arms and Tubular Panhard Bar. There is a difference when I take a on ramp or even just driving around town. The squeaks and rattles went away I have the Bilstein shocks on now (stock) I see no reason to change to another brand. I like the Bilstein shocks.
Yes it seems that the stock uppers and lowers should remain on the car. The last thing I want is a noisy front end. My goal is to keep the car forever but slowly changing any of the stock parts to better the car. Thanks for your input Foxxtron!
