SimRacer1

Hi everyone I just picked up an 02 ws6. It has dumped true duals no cats and dynomax bullets. Problem is here you need cats for the visual and supposedly no dumps. No biggie I can get custom exhaust work done to get some maganflow carsound cats added on and i wanted to extend the pipes out the back anyways and get some corsa clones if i cant find a cheap used set of real corsa dual dual tips.

Here comes the problem, the suspension is stock but in the next few months im gonna be going with strano springs and koni 4/4 shocks, ill need the adjustable panhard bar (until I upgrade to a watts link rear, which i think removes the need for any sort of panhard bar), wanna get umi 3 point sub frame connectors, bigger roll bars, etc etc all of the suspension mods that make the car handle better AND more importantly more reliable.

What do I do? Once the true duals are on do they have to hack the exhaust system up to install all the suspension stuff and then re weld everything back together?? Can these parts fit on the car and not be in the way of the true duals? Please help.

P.S. SHould I re-post this in the exhaust section?

Thanks for the help everyone I cant wait to start aking vids and pics for you guys!!

XxApollynxX

iTrader: (2)

From my experience, the 3-points and true duals can work but hang lower then normal. Add that into you lowering the car I think that's a big no. If you really want to go with the 3-points I would switch to a single exhaust set-up. But yes you would have to remove the exhaust system more then likely to install the 3-points.

SimRacer1

ok i guess screw the 3 -points, what about the regular 2 points??

JD_AMG

You can skip it all together, its really not a needed part and many take off their SFC's after seeing no difference.
To make life easier make sure the true duels go over the axle, not under it. (like the bassani system). The smartest thing to do is to get the suspension you want first then fit the exhaust after (because the watts link may allow the exhaust to fit better).

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

I know there was a handful of people cutting them off so they could be SCCA ESP legal. I would imagine not as many people would be cutting them off now days that they began allowing them in ESP. I'm SM anyway due to tons of other modifications and I like the jack points

But anyway to the OP, I doubt you'd have any problems with 2 point sfc's since they just run along the sides of the vehicle.

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Hello,

Thanks for the interest in our 3-Point SFC's and I will be glad to help.

We haven't found any true dual systems that will not clear with our 3-Point SFC's and as long as the true duals are ran down the center of the car the 3-Point SFC's will not effect the height of the exhaust. A popular exhaust system that works well and dumps before the axle is the TSP true duals.

Another you might want to consider for the true duals in the future is the torque arm. We built our torque arm around a true dual system to offer additional clearance over the factory torque arm. This prevents ground clearance loss. I posted a link, please take a look at the installations pictures in the link for more information and to see this item installed with the TSP true duals- www.umiperformance.com/2205

If you have any questions please ask. Thank you!

Ryan

SimRacer1

Thanks ryan great news. I have a feeling this is gonna be too complicated too add the cats and then add all the suspension stuff after that. So I think Ill have to break the bank (well the visa lol) and get all my suspension stuff now and THEN do all the exhaust like JD_AMG said above.

Ok so right now my list includes first

Strano Springs
Koni 4/4 adjustable in car shocks
Stranos Watts Link
The 3 point subframe connectors
The torque arm advised by UMI - Is this the torque arm that can go together with the 3 point Subs and they all bolt up as one? I saw somethin like that on ur site.

What else do i need for a corner carving car or for a more reliable car since it might be driven hard once in a while on the street and im not the most mechanically inclined (at least not yet ill learn though and might even attempt to bolt some of this stuff up myself once i buy lifts/jacks). I really wanna get into this stuff and make working on the car myself one of my hobbies.

I hear alot about lower control arms and upper control arms and a arms??? I used to race F1600s and F2000s so im not into the whole drag racing scene EXCEPT of course on the street when someone wants to have some fun.

Oh ya I have 45 days to do all this and get my cats on and pass inspection or car gets taken away from me for good lol

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Hello, Glad I could help.... I will do my best with the questions below and you can let me know if you have any additional questions.

No this torque arm will not tie into the SFC's and there are a few reasons I did not recommend the arm that does. First is you mentioned true duals with dumps... this type of exhaust will not clear with the short tunnel mounted torque arms and you must go with the full length arm I recommended which was designed around duals. Second, on a corner carver the shorter torque arms may cause brake hop and we do not recommend them on high handling cars... the full length is also more streetable.


I think you go everything covered. The only thing I see missing is a panhard bar and for this I recommend our part #2022. This item features a rod end one end and poly bushings on the other. The rod end is designed to allow the rear to move correctly with out bind which is what you will need on your application. The poly bushing helps to prevent road noise, this item can be seen here- www.umiperformance.com/2022


You will not and I don't you would benefit from upper and lower front A-Arms. The A-Arms would allow some additional adjustment for alignment but again not something I see your application needing.

Let me know if I can help anymore. Thanks!
Ryan

SimRacer1

Wow thanks for the thorough and quick response, I beleive i dont need the panhard bar because when you get a watts link it eliminates it.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Nice to hear for a true corner-carver.

To begin with and so you know I'm not trying to block UMI out here, I sell their parts, and there are certainly some we are going to use somewhere along the way. Most notably based on what I've seen so far will be the SFC's. Possibly a STB (can't hurt). I'd use a UMI PHB if it wasn't for the fact you are leaning toward a Watts instead--and you are correct that the Watts replaces the PHB setup.

The trick here is building up to what you want. I don't feel every car needs all the same parts. Do you need LCA's? Maybe, maybe not.... that's something we have to determine by speaking to one another by phone.

The way I see it (and this is subject to change) your big items are and should be:

Koni's
Springs
I'd change swaybars which I didn't see on your list
Watts

Items that are not as "must do" on the handling front but still what I'd do early on for various reasons:

SFC's
TA (various types, but I like the longer versions with a TA relocation kit)
STB

Now if your car exhibits wheelhop with the TA and after the other parts are on, we'd then look at adding different LCA's and possibly brackets. But from a cornering standpoint LCA brackets aren't what we want geometry wise.

All things we can, and I'd be happy to talk about with you.

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Oops missed the watts link

SimRacer1

Yes I dunno how I missed the anti roll bars on the list, but those I need to wait until u get your hollow front and rear combo back.

STB, is tha a strut bar? Is that jus for more reliablility/safety or handling/performance?

Ok so according to you and UMI, go with the long torque arm which is more geared for handling. But whats the relocation kit for?

Finally Sam, i heard alot of guys worship 2 peice SFC's but also lots of people saying they didnt do much if anything at all, BUT when it comes to the 3 pts i dont ever seem to see anyone with negative comments about them. Have you had any experience with 2 pts vs 3pts?

Yes I will definetely call you inhe next while sam thanks!

UnZFeat'd

iTrader: (1)

i have a watts link... it looks like a td setup would fit really well back there... too bad 2blk4u just never shipped it and took my money... anyway, here is a picture of what youre gonna be looking at if you get a watts link, which i highly reccomend over any phb setup

SimRacer1

thanks alot man, sorry to hear about ur watts link,

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Yes stick with the longer torque arm. The relocation kit works with the longer torque arm and mounts it off the transmission. Basically this allows you to use your factory length torque arm but mount it off the transmission tail shaft. This is something that can always be added at a later date and I think you would be fine with out. Click on the link for an example picture... hope that helps!

http://www.umiperformance.com/images/2207d.jpg

Hope that helps!
Ryan

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Um why are you sorry about UnZfeat'd's watts? He has it (see the pics) I think he was meaning someone didn't send him a TD setup he apparently paid for. I sent his is Watts.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Hollow bar sets will be back (and we have an adjustable, 3 position rear bar as well--but it's not hollow). The adjustable is actually more recommendend with a Watts because it allows you to play with your roll center height more because you can alter the roll stiffness for balance.

2 vs. 3 pt connectors.... Coke or Pepsi? If you want to make the car as strong as you can, you pick 3's. If you want to save a few bucks and stronger than stock makes you happy then 2's. It's basically that simple. Neither is wrong, just a matter of which is more right for you.

TA, I agree definitely a long version to minimize brake hop. A TA relocation many want to get the TA off the transmission tailshaft. But you also gain the ability to change how the car plants power because raising the nose of the TA moves the instant center rearward increasing bite (but with the geometry issues of doing it with say LCA relocation brackets).

UnZFeat'd

iTrader: (1)

yeah, it was the td system i didnt get. i got everything from sam at least a day earlier than he said. no problems there...

SimRacer1

wow completely miss read that lol, I thought he meant he bought the watts link off of 2blk4u but it was never sent to him lol, i was gonna ask him why the hell he didnt buy from u lol

wow I feel like such a noob, sorry to keep asking dumb questions, but ryan i didnt get the part about the factory length torque arm, are you saying with the relocation kit i can run the long umi torque arm and the standard length at the same time?

so the relocation kit will cause geometry issues if i move the nose of the TA around to change the bite? So for a handling car am i supposed to just set it at a certain position and not move it to avoid suspension geometry issues?

sorry i know im dragging this thread on but i gotta do this right the first time as its gonna be quite a bit of money for all these parts

oh ya by the way my car is an M6 with 10 bolt atm

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

We're to the point you need to pick up the telephone SimRacer1.... Typed words are very hard to learn practical knowledge from and you've got good questions, but you are also a bit confused by the information you've gotten. FWIW, at least twice now you've misinterpreted statements made (delivery of the Watts when the poster was talking about exhaust and then just above when you think I was referring to geometry issues relating to the TA when I was talking about issues stemming from LCA brackets).