Help me stop my car.... without warping my rotors
10-31-2009, 08:47 PM
#1
Help me stop my car.... without warping my rotors Stock rotors warped... So I put on some PowerSlot rotors and EBC Greenstuff pads.
They warped.
So I am looking to upgrade and spend up to $800, I do 99% daily driving and occasional track use. Biggest thing is that they will NOT warp braking from ~120. Brake dust has been a problem with the Greenstuff pads, so I'd like something with a little less dust that preforms well. Cheaper is better, as long as it gets the job done. No drilled / slotted rotors, not looking for appearance. Just need it to stop and not warp.
Any suggestions??
They warped.
So I am looking to upgrade and spend up to $800, I do 99% daily driving and occasional track use. Biggest thing is that they will NOT warp braking from ~120. Brake dust has been a problem with the Greenstuff pads, so I'd like something with a little less dust that preforms well. Cheaper is better, as long as it gets the job done. No drilled / slotted rotors, not looking for appearance. Just need it to stop and not warp.
Any suggestions??
11-01-2009, 01:45 AM
#2
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I use to have the same problem on my car. I would heat warp drilled/sltted rotrs with ceramic brakes. Cracked the rotors too at the drilled holes. Ended up doing dimpled slotted with hawk pads. They are dusty and noisy as hell but I haven't had a problem since then with them. Might help?
11-01-2009, 02:36 AM
#3
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brembo blank rotors, stock calipers and hawk pads is the best bang for the buck. Dont get any drilled or slotted, it doesnt do anything but crack later on, and look cool.
11-01-2009, 02:50 PM
#6
What do you guys think about this kit, with BAER, Rotorworks, or Brembo blanks???
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=2028
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=2028
11-01-2009, 03:17 PM
#7
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Not a bad kit, provided you really need them.
Some will think what I just wrote is crazy, however ANY brake kit will be rendered to poor performance if they don't have good pads as well as fresh brake fluid. Every component does serve an importance to the overall braking, however the pads must be able to handle the temperatures seen (which is why I've kept a pyrometer on hand).
AFA the stock diameter, if your rotors have good overall mass (and there are several out there of stock diameter that will, some of them being on the slightly heavy side), then there's very little need to increase the diameter.
Another interesting thing to mention AFA pads go is that Sam Strano has just tried out the Hawk DTC-30 pads, which have a temp range of 100 to 1200 degrees F. That's a pretty darn good range along with what he described as "aggressive friction" without chewing up rotors premautrely, yet streetable. Even so, with the hardest driving on the street, it's pretty doubtful you're going to reach temps even near 900.
Some will think what I just wrote is crazy, however ANY brake kit will be rendered to poor performance if they don't have good pads as well as fresh brake fluid. Every component does serve an importance to the overall braking, however the pads must be able to handle the temperatures seen (which is why I've kept a pyrometer on hand).
AFA the stock diameter, if your rotors have good overall mass (and there are several out there of stock diameter that will, some of them being on the slightly heavy side), then there's very little need to increase the diameter.
Another interesting thing to mention AFA pads go is that Sam Strano has just tried out the Hawk DTC-30 pads, which have a temp range of 100 to 1200 degrees F. That's a pretty darn good range along with what he described as "aggressive friction" without chewing up rotors premautrely, yet streetable. Even so, with the hardest driving on the street, it's pretty doubtful you're going to reach temps even near 900.
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11-01-2009, 06:56 PM
#8
I got top of the line Autozone rotors and pads and never warped them, this is a heavy *** car. I don't know what conditions your driving but good lord you should not be killing pads like that. If anything let the engine compression brake if it is that bad.
11-02-2009, 10:14 PM
#10
If you want some serious rotors, do the CTS-V upgrade. You get the massive 14" Z06 rotors, fully vented and cross drilled. I've stopped repeatedly from high speeds and no warpage. They are AC Delco rotors, made in USA.
11-03-2009, 12:23 AM
#11
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Aren't all Autozone rotors made in Asia?? If so, any stop from 120+MPH will warp them instantly. Asian metallurgy is complete garbage.
If you want some serious rotors, do the CTS-V upgrade. You get the massive 14" Z06 rotors, fully vented and cross drilled. I've stopped repeatedly from high speeds and no warpage. They are AC Delco rotors, made in USA.
If you want some serious rotors, do the CTS-V upgrade. You get the massive 14" Z06 rotors, fully vented and cross drilled. I've stopped repeatedly from high speeds and no warpage. They are AC Delco rotors, made in USA.
11-03-2009, 06:26 AM
#12
I would say so. I threw some new autozone rotors "expensive ones" on one day when I was bored. Put some wagner ceramic pads on too "expensive ones". It was really nice for almost a week, car felt new again. Warped them to the same level as the stockers in less then two weeks. All it took was one trip to the track and I only trap around 108mph.
Yeah, no crappy rotors for me. What about the stock GM C5 rotors? Are these any good or are they garbage?
11-03-2009, 06:50 AM
#13
If you can find an American-made rotor, I'd be all over that.
11-03-2009, 07:35 AM
#14
Nope, no real dust, the car is cleaned regularly. I didn't have a ton of $$$ when I was doing them and a fellow tech member was doing a swap at work. Free replacement so as long as I give him the old stuff back, paid stupid cheap $$$.
Next time around I'd consider something that is slotted and Zinc coated.
If I recall the brand ill let you know but otherwise works fine, looks decent (if you paint them) and even if not with a discount is a reasonable alternative.
Driving style is 98% of the difference when it comes to rotor warpage.
Next time around I'd consider something that is slotted and Zinc coated.
If I recall the brand ill let you know but otherwise works fine, looks decent (if you paint them) and even if not with a discount is a reasonable alternative.
Driving style is 98% of the difference when it comes to rotor warpage.
11-03-2009, 07:51 AM
#15
Aren't all Autozone rotors made in Asia?? If so, any stop from 120+MPH will warp them instantly. Asian metallurgy is complete garbage.
If you want some serious rotors, do the CTS-V upgrade. You get the massive 14" Z06 rotors, fully vented and cross drilled. I've stopped repeatedly from high speeds and no warpage. They are AC Delco rotors, made in USA.
If you want some serious rotors, do the CTS-V upgrade. You get the massive 14" Z06 rotors, fully vented and cross drilled. I've stopped repeatedly from high speeds and no warpage. They are AC Delco rotors, made in USA.
I wont argue metallurgy but It seems that the majority of people use that as a blanketed statement which is neither here, nor there.
This car is raced regularly and is regularly stopping from 120+, that is in 1/4 mile racing. Anyone who auto crosses goes throught pads and rotors on a regular basis anyways so that does not count. If I top 120+ I do not stop on the 1st turn off, you slow down with some distance and then apply the brake your fine.
Again, driving techinique.
Racing up to 80 mph to then stop hard is what warps rotors as they have not had time to cool off, its driver's error more then it is the metal used in the rotors.
I would always argue stock GM rotors being complete garbage, my wife's HHR warped them in less then 6k miles. I drove on them till 12k. I took it in, they Warrenteed it, they just cut the rotors and pad slapped it, still was VERY bad, actually when they heated up, they were fine, when they cooled, they re warped. Took it back and they replace everything brand new and has been fine for 2-3k and my wife is the one driving and she drives fast and stops fast. So take it for what it is for.
I myself was looking into performance rotors due to her driving. She has gotten better but still drives me nuts.
11-03-2009, 08:29 PM
#16
As far as I've seen, every single rotor is made in China. Even Brembos. I bought Bendix, thinking they were American made. Wrong, box says "Made in China". So I bought ATE rotors from Sam, and the box says the same thing. My brother bought Brembo blanks from Sam, and yes, that box says "Made in China" too. My Dad bought AC Delco rotors for his Suburban, and they are the same cheap crap you get at Autozone.
If you can find an American-made rotor, I'd be all over that.
If you can find an American-made rotor, I'd be all over that.
And as I said, the AC Delco Z06 rotors I got for my conversion were 100% Made in USA.
11-04-2009, 06:26 AM
#18
It's the calipers causing the warping.
They flex under hard braking.
Next time you put new rotors and pads on, do a few hard stops and look at the rotor. It'll be darker on the OD because the calipers spread, wait a while and the pads wear at an angle an the whole rotor surface gets dark.
The problem is heat generated at the outer edge where it clamps tightest.
vette's use the same rotor material, the difference is the caliper, it doesn't deflect or spread.
They flex under hard braking.
Next time you put new rotors and pads on, do a few hard stops and look at the rotor. It'll be darker on the OD because the calipers spread, wait a while and the pads wear at an angle an the whole rotor surface gets dark.
The problem is heat generated at the outer edge where it clamps tightest.
vette's use the same rotor material, the difference is the caliper, it doesn't deflect or spread.
11-04-2009, 11:49 AM
#19
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Brembo blanks from Strano...
Went through a whole track day with them beating the snot out of them and they were perfect... This was with stock calipers and Hawk HP+ pads. To put it in perspective, I got the brakes hot enough to melt the center caps (more like warp and discolor the plastic, but regardless they got very hot). The track allowed you to hit about 105 mph on the front and back straights then have to brake down to 35 to 40 mph for the turn. Its not the 120 mph that you talk about, but it was repetitive with very little time to cool. I don't think I could have been harder on the brakes if I tried. I was very impressed with the Brembo's.
Incidently I did observe what appeared to be uneven pad wear from the stock calipers spreading (though it didn't warp the rotors).
One other thing to consider is the torque on the lug nuts. If you over-torque or unevenly torque the lugs you can stress the rotor, which when you add some heat can ruin the rotors. This is a big problem with tire stores hammering the lug nuts back on with an impact after you get new tires or the He-man types that feel a bolt/nut is never "tight" enough.
Of course if you want to spend the extra money, larger rotors will dissipate the heat better than stock, or you could fab up some cooling ducts to bring fresh air too them... But they shouldn't be needed on a car that isn't seeing serious and regular track duty to prevent warping the rotors.
Good luck.
Went through a whole track day with them beating the snot out of them and they were perfect... This was with stock calipers and Hawk HP+ pads. To put it in perspective, I got the brakes hot enough to melt the center caps (more like warp and discolor the plastic, but regardless they got very hot). The track allowed you to hit about 105 mph on the front and back straights then have to brake down to 35 to 40 mph for the turn. Its not the 120 mph that you talk about, but it was repetitive with very little time to cool. I don't think I could have been harder on the brakes if I tried. I was very impressed with the Brembo's.
Incidently I did observe what appeared to be uneven pad wear from the stock calipers spreading (though it didn't warp the rotors).
One other thing to consider is the torque on the lug nuts. If you over-torque or unevenly torque the lugs you can stress the rotor, which when you add some heat can ruin the rotors. This is a big problem with tire stores hammering the lug nuts back on with an impact after you get new tires or the He-man types that feel a bolt/nut is never "tight" enough.
Of course if you want to spend the extra money, larger rotors will dissipate the heat better than stock, or you could fab up some cooling ducts to bring fresh air too them... But they shouldn't be needed on a car that isn't seeing serious and regular track duty to prevent warping the rotors.
Good luck.
