new shocks, what other parts do I need?
11-08-2009, 06:12 PM
#1
new shocks, what other parts do I need? I want to replace the front upper shock mounts when I put in my new Koni's and springs...what else do I need? The Koni's haven't arrived yet, so I'm curious, do they come with the lower spring perch? Do I just put the compressed spring on the lower perch, and bolt the upper shock mount on, or are there isolators or any other parts that go in between? My new springs didn't come with anything, so I don't think that I'm missing anything, but I figured I'd better ask.
The cas has 170K on it, so I have all new bushings and balljoints to go in at the same time as well as new tie rods (the rack feels surprisingly tight still, so thats a plus...though I'll probably replace the rack mount bushings just for the hell of it).
Please let me know what other parts I need, I'm hoping to make SURE I have everything, and replace it all on the friday after thanksgiving...I can allign the car "close enough" with angle finders and tape measures if I can't find a shop thats open the saturday after thanksgiving just to get me by until there is one open.
If I can have the new front springs/shocks/shock mounts assembled prior to that day so I can just unbolt the parts from the car and bolt the new ones in without needing to re-use anything (except maybe bolts) that'd really be a big time savings.
The cas has 170K on it, so I have all new bushings and balljoints to go in at the same time as well as new tie rods (the rack feels surprisingly tight still, so thats a plus...though I'll probably replace the rack mount bushings just for the hell of it).
Please let me know what other parts I need, I'm hoping to make SURE I have everything, and replace it all on the friday after thanksgiving...I can allign the car "close enough" with angle finders and tape measures if I can't find a shop thats open the saturday after thanksgiving just to get me by until there is one open.
If I can have the new front springs/shocks/shock mounts assembled prior to that day so I can just unbolt the parts from the car and bolt the new ones in without needing to re-use anything (except maybe bolts) that'd really be a big time savings.
11-10-2009, 07:37 AM
#6
I don't want to deal with taking apart old rusted crap, I just want to unbolt them and throw them away...far as I know the isolators are in between the spring and the mount, so getting the old ones out isn't easy on a New England car...I do my damdest to keep it clean, I really do try very hard, but I also drive it almost 150 miles every day, every season...I clean the underside of the car almost as much as I wash the body/interior, especially in the winter...but it's awfully hard to clean the upper mounts, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to find some corrossion up there when I take them out of the car.
No, Moogs are like...$60-70 a piece for the mounts, and like $6-7 for the isolators...AC Delco's are about $10 more expensive per part...nowhere even remotely close to $200 a piece.
It's not like these are third gen's with strut bearings...they're pretty much just a steel plate that is stamped to locate a spring isolator and a spring...I just don't want to deal with screwing around with trying to dissassemble 170K mile mounts that have lived in new england and never been apart before, when I can just replace them, my time is worth more than that...I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything, like internal bumpstops or anything other than just the isolators.
No, Moogs are like...$60-70 a piece for the mounts, and like $6-7 for the isolators...AC Delco's are about $10 more expensive per part...nowhere even remotely close to $200 a piece.
It's not like these are third gen's with strut bearings...they're pretty much just a steel plate that is stamped to locate a spring isolator and a spring...I just don't want to deal with screwing around with trying to dissassemble 170K mile mounts that have lived in new england and never been apart before, when I can just replace them, my time is worth more than that...I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything, like internal bumpstops or anything other than just the isolators.
11-10-2009, 07:50 AM
#7
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Ok-the konis come with bumpstops on the shock. But since you dont want to disassemble and reuse. You will need to use A lower isolator as well. As for the Konis-I used hardware sent with them-Sam suggests Using other hardware due to that some people cant work with the self-locking nut supplied. And also there is a rubber piece on top of shock assembly that needs to be used. Sometimes it will fall off and you wont notice till its all back together and you have a horrible noise. And if these are SA shocks. work them thru thier range to make sure the adjuster works first. and use a med duty locktight if you dont use the self locking nut. You can paint the hardware after intall to help fight corrosion. Oh and yes the Konis come with the lower spring perch.
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11-10-2009, 10:00 AM
#9
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Yes the isolator I am refering to is between the lower perch and spring. Its hard plastic and is made for the pigtail of the spring to go on. the upper mount locates the spring. and ther is a triangle-sorta-rubber piece that just sits on top of whole assembly. Since you Probley live in the northern states-I would suggest a primer or light paint on the hardware or any bare surface to help you fight any corrossion. You will see that water collects on top of these parts and will be badly rusted. I had to cut the hardware off of my QA1s when I swapped to Koni/Strano setup. And as for the rear you know about the carpet has cutout for easy access to upper rear hardware?
11-10-2009, 10:09 AM
#10
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last time I did mine I put antisieze on the shock shaft and covered the nut/threads with a big glob of grease. getting ready to take it apart again real soon to install my new Konis.
11-10-2009, 02:46 PM
#11
Yeah, I know all about the rears...I had the whole interior of the car out to dynamat and put my stereo in, and I purposely avoided the rear shock mounts when I did that to avoid any issues...they should only take 20 minutes (shocks and springs in rear) compared to the front...front is getting 8 new bushings and 4 newballjoints too...lots to do when I open it up.
I live in MA, so I thoroughly expect to fight a shitload of rust, I'll probably paint everything and coat it with grease to try to help fight water for the future...but like I said, 170K miles...all of them in MA since 2000...it's only seen a few of those during the winter, and I have tried...but it's inevitable.
Can I buy the lower hard plastic isolators? I can't find them anywhere...which means I guess I'll have to dissassemble the old stuff
.
I live in MA, so I thoroughly expect to fight a shitload of rust, I'll probably paint everything and coat it with grease to try to help fight water for the future...but like I said, 170K miles...all of them in MA since 2000...it's only seen a few of those during the winter, and I have tried...but it's inevitable.
Can I buy the lower hard plastic isolators? I can't find them anywhere...which means I guess I'll have to dissassemble the old stuff
. Last edited by Mike454SS; 11-10-2009 at 03:13 PM.
11-10-2009, 05:03 PM
#13
Ok so to get all the info in a nut shell (correct me if im wrong) You Need-
1.Upper Insulator
2.Shock Mount
**This is just for the front, or back as well?** Am I missing anything else here?
1.Upper Insulator
2.Shock Mount
**This is just for the front, or back as well?** Am I missing anything else here?
11-10-2009, 05:25 PM
#14
Striker, there is a lower spring insulator as well...I think I found them on rockauto actually, under a Moog PN that includes lower perches that I guess I won't be using as I'll be using the ones that will be on my Koni SA's (when they arrive).
Tillery, thanks for all the help dude...like I said before I'm probably going to tackle this the day after thanksgiving...crappy shipping or not I should be able to have everything here before then...rockauto has always treated me pretty well though.
Tillery, thanks for all the help dude...like I said before I'm probably going to tackle this the day after thanksgiving...crappy shipping or not I should be able to have everything here before then...rockauto has always treated me pretty well though.
11-10-2009, 05:42 PM
#15
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Cool-thank for the info on that moog also sells them. And the correct name. I may need that in future. Now the Koni SAs perch is installed on the upper location. At least mine were. BTW what part number do they market them under? From Moog?
11-10-2009, 07:43 PM
#16
Lower isolators (2 needed) MOOG Part # K80927 Frt Susp; Lower; Incl. spring pan
Upper isolators (2 needed) MOOG Part # K6573 Frt Susp; Upper
Drivers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6516 Frt Susp; Upper; LH
Passengers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6517 Frt Susp; Upper; RH
I'm planning to install my springs on the upper location...if I were keeping stock springs, I'd probably go to the lower, but the Strano's will lower the car anyways, and I don't want to be bottoming out and smashing into the bumpstops.
Anything else?...I think I've got it all covered at this point. I've already got all the bushings and balljoints for the upper and lower arms sitting here new in boxes...it's a street car so I'm just using Moog, no need for any poly or solid/delrin stuff for me on this one.
Upper isolators (2 needed) MOOG Part # K6573 Frt Susp; Upper
Drivers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6516 Frt Susp; Upper; LH
Passengers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6517 Frt Susp; Upper; RH
I'm planning to install my springs on the upper location...if I were keeping stock springs, I'd probably go to the lower, but the Strano's will lower the car anyways, and I don't want to be bottoming out and smashing into the bumpstops.
Anything else?...I think I've got it all covered at this point. I've already got all the bushings and balljoints for the upper and lower arms sitting here new in boxes...it's a street car so I'm just using Moog, no need for any poly or solid/delrin stuff for me on this one.
11-10-2009, 11:35 PM
#17
Lower isolators (2 needed) MOOG Part # K80927 Frt Susp; Lower; Incl. spring pan
Upper isolators (2 needed) MOOG Part # K6573 Frt Susp; Upper
Drivers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6516 Frt Susp; Upper; LH
Passengers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6517 Frt Susp; Upper; RH
Upper isolators (2 needed) MOOG Part # K6573 Frt Susp; Upper
Drivers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6516 Frt Susp; Upper; LH
Passengers upper mount (1 needed) MOOG Part # K6517 Frt Susp; Upper; RH
Any idea what all the above parts run for from ac delco?
11-28-2009, 10:05 PM
#19
Just thought I'd update the thread.
I installed everything in the front end today, thank god my buddy has a body shop with a lift.
The Moog upper mounts, SUCK. The drivers side one fit perfectly, on the first shot...the passenger side one...if I had time to have the car down, I'd send it back and demand another...but I don't, so I made it work.
The 2 studs that go through the car and the 2 threaded inserts aren't in the right place, so when you try to bolt the mount to the strut tower, you can't easily make all 4 holes fit.
The easiest solution for me, which I didn't want to do, but I had to, was to ream the holes on the strut tower out (not a lot, less than 1/16") and do the same to the holes on the upper control arm bracket.
Once I did that, everything did go together nicely, and I didn't have to re-use anything other than the control arms and spindles themselves, because I also bought 4 new balljoints, and all new control arm bushings.
I didn't do the rear Koni's and springs yet, waiting till tomorrow, so I will reserve my opinions on that setup until thats done and I have time to allign the car, but I will say, the clunk in the front end is gone, and that put a big smile on my face.
I installed everything in the front end today, thank god my buddy has a body shop with a lift.
The Moog upper mounts, SUCK. The drivers side one fit perfectly, on the first shot...the passenger side one...if I had time to have the car down, I'd send it back and demand another...but I don't, so I made it work.
The 2 studs that go through the car and the 2 threaded inserts aren't in the right place, so when you try to bolt the mount to the strut tower, you can't easily make all 4 holes fit.
The easiest solution for me, which I didn't want to do, but I had to, was to ream the holes on the strut tower out (not a lot, less than 1/16") and do the same to the holes on the upper control arm bracket.
Once I did that, everything did go together nicely, and I didn't have to re-use anything other than the control arms and spindles themselves, because I also bought 4 new balljoints, and all new control arm bushings.
I didn't do the rear Koni's and springs yet, waiting till tomorrow, so I will reserve my opinions on that setup until thats done and I have time to allign the car, but I will say, the clunk in the front end is gone, and that put a big smile on my face.
12-02-2009, 08:44 AM
#20
Last update to this thread I guess.
I finished up the rear shocks/springs (took longer to get the interior apart to get to the shock mounts than it did to change the shocks and springs) and drove the car for a day to settle the suspension in before having it aligned.
When the car got on the rack the alignment was a disaster, I had positive camber on both front tires, toe was way too far out, and caster was horribly uneven.
I asked them to give me -1.0 camber on both sides in front, 5.5 caster and just a tiny tiny bit of toe in. They were able to get that for me without any issue...I think it actually wound up at 5.4 caster on one side and 5.6 on the other...no big deal.
The car feels fantastic with the whole new setup in it. I'll be tweaking the shock adjustments for a few more days and then I'll button the interior back up hopefully this weekend.
I finished up the rear shocks/springs (took longer to get the interior apart to get to the shock mounts than it did to change the shocks and springs) and drove the car for a day to settle the suspension in before having it aligned.
When the car got on the rack the alignment was a disaster, I had positive camber on both front tires, toe was way too far out, and caster was horribly uneven.
I asked them to give me -1.0 camber on both sides in front, 5.5 caster and just a tiny tiny bit of toe in. They were able to get that for me without any issue...I think it actually wound up at 5.4 caster on one side and 5.6 on the other...no big deal.
The car feels fantastic with the whole new setup in it. I'll be tweaking the shock adjustments for a few more days and then I'll button the interior back up hopefully this weekend.