need help with pad/rotor swap asap!
03-06-2010, 07:11 PM
#1
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need help with pad/rotor swap asap! i've never installed brakes on a car before but figured i'd give it a try. that apparently was a bad decison. i'm in the middle of chaning all the pads/rotors on my 02 camaro ss but ran into problems. for the install im using my chilton book for 93-02 camaros and this website http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...ds_mwarren.htm the issues are that the book and site have slightly different methods for the install. here are my problems thus far
1) the book says to use a c clamp to squeeze the pad/caliper in order to reposition the caliper piston. it says to do this to the old stuff before its removed from the car. supposidly this will cause the brake fluid in the container under the hood to rise and i'll then have to syphoon it off? the website says to take all the old stuff off, put the new stuff on, then use the clamp on the pistons directly and reattach the caliper, which will also cause the brake fluid to go up. my questions are which method is the best and how do i know when i've clamped enough and prevent myself from over squeezing it? also, what should i do to get rid of the brake fluid, suck it out with a turkey baster or something?
2) the website says to put loctite on the caliper bolts but the book doesnt mention that, what should i do?
3) the book says to put anti-squeal stuff on the pads before installing them but the website doesnt. i have ceramic pads which supposidly dont make any noise, so i dunno what is best.
4) this may seem a little stupid but for the life of me i cant get the damn rotors off the car! i took off the calipers and the brackets and just assumed the rotors would slide right off but it's like they're welded on or something. is this just rust? should i spray some wd40 around the center and bang on it with a hammer till it pops off, or is there something i'm not doing right? (oh yeah, neither the book or website mentioned it but i found that each wheel has 3 washers which are like locked to the lug screws in order to prevent the rotors from coming off. they were a bitch and a half to remove, but i got them off, but STILL cant budge the rotors at all).
any help you guys could give is greatly appreciated!
1) the book says to use a c clamp to squeeze the pad/caliper in order to reposition the caliper piston. it says to do this to the old stuff before its removed from the car. supposidly this will cause the brake fluid in the container under the hood to rise and i'll then have to syphoon it off? the website says to take all the old stuff off, put the new stuff on, then use the clamp on the pistons directly and reattach the caliper, which will also cause the brake fluid to go up. my questions are which method is the best and how do i know when i've clamped enough and prevent myself from over squeezing it? also, what should i do to get rid of the brake fluid, suck it out with a turkey baster or something?
2) the website says to put loctite on the caliper bolts but the book doesnt mention that, what should i do?
3) the book says to put anti-squeal stuff on the pads before installing them but the website doesnt. i have ceramic pads which supposidly dont make any noise, so i dunno what is best.
4) this may seem a little stupid but for the life of me i cant get the damn rotors off the car! i took off the calipers and the brackets and just assumed the rotors would slide right off but it's like they're welded on or something. is this just rust? should i spray some wd40 around the center and bang on it with a hammer till it pops off, or is there something i'm not doing right? (oh yeah, neither the book or website mentioned it but i found that each wheel has 3 washers which are like locked to the lug screws in order to prevent the rotors from coming off. they were a bitch and a half to remove, but i got them off, but STILL cant budge the rotors at all).
any help you guys could give is greatly appreciated!
03-06-2010, 07:34 PM
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For your questions 1) Usually it will not rise enough to spill out if you do need to get it out i use a old turkey baster just don't ever use it with food again. 2) You don't need to put locktite on them i never have in my life. 3)I would always put anti-squeal stuff on all pads can make noise. 4)If the rotors have never been off give them a good wack with a rubber malet them should come off they just get rusted on there
03-07-2010, 01:17 PM
#3
Good decision! You learn by doing. Here are a few more pointers:
1) I've found that you usually have to push the piston all the way in in order for the new pads to clear the rotor.
2) There are two sets of caliper bolts! One set holds the caliper to the caliper bracket and another set holds the caliper bracket to the car:
- The bolts that hold the caliper to the caliper bracket (smaller ones) need to have lock-tite applied. This is the way they should have come from the factory and will vibrate out if you do not use thread locker on them.
- The bolts that hold the caliper bracket to the car MUST be properly torqued with a torque wrench. (You will probably not get them tight enough by hand.) If your book doesn't have the proper torque specs, please let us know and I can look them up. If you don't have a torque wrench, you can rent one from your local auto parts store. Again, the proper torque is important to make sure the bolts don't vibrate out. (Bad things happen if any of these bolts come loose.) Some people will recommend that you lock-tite these bolts also - it doesn't hurt, but I don't think thread locker will do anything on these high-torque bolts.
3) All pads MUST have grease and or shims applied to every surface where metal contacts metal. The ceramic material will help keep the pad from squeaking on the rotor - but the grease stops squealing where the metal pad backer meets the other metal caliper parts. Just don't get any grease on to the pad material or the rotor! Every where the pads contact the brackets or caliper should be lubed. You may also have shims pre-applied to the pads (kind of a pad stuck to the back) and I lube where this hits the caliper piston also. If your pads didn't come with the special grease, you can get it at your auto parts store.
4) Those three washers are used in the factory to hold the rotor to the car before the wheel is put on. If you have them, it means that your rotor has never been removed before. They can just be broken off and thrown away - and should not be put back on the car. Given that your rotor has been on so long, it will rust a bit - which is normal. If whacking the back of the rotors with a hammer doesn't work, I like to take a 2X4, place it across the studs, and then use 2 C-clamps to squeeze either end of the 2X4 to the back of the rotor. As you tighten the clamps, you'll get a giant "pop" and it will come loose.
5) If you are replacing your rear rotors, be aware that you'll need to adjust your parking brake to match the inside bore of your new rotors. The adjusters live inside each rotor and will need to be adjusted on each side of the car before you put the rear calipers back on! Again, if your book doesn't tell you how to do this, please ping back.
1) I've found that you usually have to push the piston all the way in in order for the new pads to clear the rotor.
2) There are two sets of caliper bolts! One set holds the caliper to the caliper bracket and another set holds the caliper bracket to the car:
- The bolts that hold the caliper to the caliper bracket (smaller ones) need to have lock-tite applied. This is the way they should have come from the factory and will vibrate out if you do not use thread locker on them.
- The bolts that hold the caliper bracket to the car MUST be properly torqued with a torque wrench. (You will probably not get them tight enough by hand.) If your book doesn't have the proper torque specs, please let us know and I can look them up. If you don't have a torque wrench, you can rent one from your local auto parts store. Again, the proper torque is important to make sure the bolts don't vibrate out. (Bad things happen if any of these bolts come loose.) Some people will recommend that you lock-tite these bolts also - it doesn't hurt, but I don't think thread locker will do anything on these high-torque bolts.
3) All pads MUST have grease and or shims applied to every surface where metal contacts metal. The ceramic material will help keep the pad from squeaking on the rotor - but the grease stops squealing where the metal pad backer meets the other metal caliper parts. Just don't get any grease on to the pad material or the rotor! Every where the pads contact the brackets or caliper should be lubed. You may also have shims pre-applied to the pads (kind of a pad stuck to the back) and I lube where this hits the caliper piston also. If your pads didn't come with the special grease, you can get it at your auto parts store.
4) Those three washers are used in the factory to hold the rotor to the car before the wheel is put on. If you have them, it means that your rotor has never been removed before. They can just be broken off and thrown away - and should not be put back on the car. Given that your rotor has been on so long, it will rust a bit - which is normal. If whacking the back of the rotors with a hammer doesn't work, I like to take a 2X4, place it across the studs, and then use 2 C-clamps to squeeze either end of the 2X4 to the back of the rotor. As you tighten the clamps, you'll get a giant "pop" and it will come loose.
5) If you are replacing your rear rotors, be aware that you'll need to adjust your parking brake to match the inside bore of your new rotors. The adjusters live inside each rotor and will need to be adjusted on each side of the car before you put the rear calipers back on! Again, if your book doesn't tell you how to do this, please ping back.
04-22-2010, 08:38 AM
#6
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Well, I'm a dumbass... My brakes haven't been replaced in forever (this was my first brake job ever), so I was expecting some stubborn rotors. I was working on the rear drivers side and the thing was so hard I started pounding it with a mallet until it finally came off. One look at it, and I smacked my forehead. I checked the inside of the car and sure enough the damn parking brake was up. F!
So anyway, I don't see any noticeable damage, but after all the pounding, the shoe came off the clip. After trying for almost an hour, I got the stupid P brake shoe on the clip and the actuator. I know it does work -- in that it expands and does stop the rotor from spinning, but that was by hand. After I put it all back (and did the passenger side brake replacement successfully with the p brake off), I notice that if I'm facing uphill and pull the P brake, I'm parked perfectly. If I'm facing a downhill and pull it, I can tell it's trying, but I'm still rolling pretty freely no matter how hard I pull up on the P brake.
Mine's a 2001 SS, so if I'm reading the forums correctly, the P brake is supposed to self adjust? I tried the pulling the P brake multiple times, but it didn't really help. Is there some other way to adjust these?
So anyway, I don't see any noticeable damage, but after all the pounding, the shoe came off the clip. After trying for almost an hour, I got the stupid P brake shoe on the clip and the actuator. I know it does work -- in that it expands and does stop the rotor from spinning, but that was by hand. After I put it all back (and did the passenger side brake replacement successfully with the p brake off), I notice that if I'm facing uphill and pull the P brake, I'm parked perfectly. If I'm facing a downhill and pull it, I can tell it's trying, but I'm still rolling pretty freely no matter how hard I pull up on the P brake.
Mine's a 2001 SS, so if I'm reading the forums correctly, the P brake is supposed to self adjust? I tried the pulling the P brake multiple times, but it didn't really help. Is there some other way to adjust these?
04-22-2010, 06:23 PM
#7
Did you replace your rotors then? The parking brakes need to be adjusted to the inner bore of the rear rotors when replaced.
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04-22-2010, 06:45 PM
#8
I believe '01's and '02's have self adjusting parking brakes, and confirmed (assuming others are right) with a search.
If it works the same as regular drum brakes, it's supposed to adjust when traveling in reverse and pulling the brake a few times....unless this one does it differently or forward/reverse doesnt matter. Just going off of what I've always been told!
If it works the same as regular drum brakes, it's supposed to adjust when traveling in reverse and pulling the brake a few times....unless this one does it differently or forward/reverse doesnt matter. Just going off of what I've always been told!
04-22-2010, 07:42 PM
#9
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Nope, you have to do what wssix99 said. I just tweaked mine last weekend after a rotor replacement, so this is fresh in my memory.
Drop the brakes and rotor, look underneath and you'll see a star wheel on one end of the actuator. The slot that the tip of the brake shoe fits into actually screws into a sleeve that is integral with this star wheel. The other end of the star-wheel sleeve rests against a lever that is attached to the parking brake cable. So you turn the star wheel towards the lever to increase the width of the actuator.
You can do it with your fingers, but if the slotted part insists on turning with the star wheel, they may be frozen together or the slotted part is fully seated into the sleeve. In either case, you may need to remove the parking brake and free them up so the star wheel rotates freely (vice grips are your friends!).
Once the parking brake is back on, make some adjustments, attach your rotor with one or two lugs, then pull your parking brake lever and see if you can turn the rotor forward by hand. If yes, increase the width. If not, I'd reduce the width until you can turn it by hand, then increase it a click at a time to zero in on the correct adjustment so you don't drag the brake. In the end, you want it to be just tight enough to not be able to rotate by hand, and then do a road test. It still might need another click before you're done.
Have fun. It's easy and beats paying someone by a mile.
BobP
Drop the brakes and rotor, look underneath and you'll see a star wheel on one end of the actuator. The slot that the tip of the brake shoe fits into actually screws into a sleeve that is integral with this star wheel. The other end of the star-wheel sleeve rests against a lever that is attached to the parking brake cable. So you turn the star wheel towards the lever to increase the width of the actuator.
You can do it with your fingers, but if the slotted part insists on turning with the star wheel, they may be frozen together or the slotted part is fully seated into the sleeve. In either case, you may need to remove the parking brake and free them up so the star wheel rotates freely (vice grips are your friends!).
Once the parking brake is back on, make some adjustments, attach your rotor with one or two lugs, then pull your parking brake lever and see if you can turn the rotor forward by hand. If yes, increase the width. If not, I'd reduce the width until you can turn it by hand, then increase it a click at a time to zero in on the correct adjustment so you don't drag the brake. In the end, you want it to be just tight enough to not be able to rotate by hand, and then do a road test. It still might need another click before you're done.
Have fun. It's easy and beats paying someone by a mile.
BobP
04-23-2010, 12:00 AM
#10
Yea, this is the next great urban myth - that our parking brakes self adjust. Real drum brakes do self-adjust, but our parking brakes are a special design: http://www.pbr.com.au/products/origi...rkbrakes.shtml
Regular drum brakes are usually designed so that the forces put on the brakes when you apply them going in reverse ratchet the adjusting mechanism. (Think of a Rolex perpetual watch that winds itself when you move your arm.) Even though our parking brakes have a very similar looking adjusting wheel, the parking brakes are never applied in a dynamic fashion - so there's no energy available to do the real work behind an adjustment. (Normally, parking brakes are only applied when the car is at rest.)
Regular drum brakes are usually designed so that the forces put on the brakes when you apply them going in reverse ratchet the adjusting mechanism. (Think of a Rolex perpetual watch that winds itself when you move your arm.) Even though our parking brakes have a very similar looking adjusting wheel, the parking brakes are never applied in a dynamic fashion - so there's no energy available to do the real work behind an adjustment. (Normally, parking brakes are only applied when the car is at rest.)
04-23-2010, 12:10 AM
#11
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Can you effectively do this without the tool in the GM Service Manual or is this a bunch of trial and error...adjust the screw, put the rotor on, put the p brake on and try to spin, and repeat until it doesn't...?
04-23-2010, 12:13 AM
#12
Yeah, kinda....I thought the 01-02's were self adjusting (debunked), but that's what I did for mine. It doesn't take as long as you think it would, just a little hassle. Keep adjusting till you can't put it on, then back it off a bit and you're pretty much there....that worked for me.
04-23-2010, 07:59 AM
#13
Kind of. You just need to put the rotor back on and then test the play at the lever that comes out of the backing plate. (The spec is in the manual - I think its 3 mm of movement, or something like that.) You shouldn't need to get inside the car or do anything more repetitive than adjusting the wheel, putting the rotor on, testing the play in the lever, and repeating.
