Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Whenever I turn the wheel there's a loud popping noise. I finally stopped by a shop to have them look at it. The guy said they would need more time to more fully look at it because they were backed up. He said the passenger side upper control arm bushing is bad and the driver side inner tie rod is really bad. The popping noise I hear seems to come from the driver side, so that's probably it. My Dad and I might replace those this weekend, so I was wanting to know how hard they are to change, get any tips, etc. Thanks.

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

Upper control arm bushings themselves aren't that hard, but getting the upper a-arms out could be a bit of an undertaking. Once out, the bushings could be pressed out with a vise and a couple of large diameter sockets.

The tie rod ends aren't a big deal either, unless they're heavily rusted. Get the car up securely, and the front wheels off. Pop the cotter pins out of the tie rod studs, back off the retaining nuts, give the side of the spindle a couple of "love taps" with a hammer, and the tie rod stud should disengage from the spindle. Loosen the jam nut on the inner end of he tie rod, hold the inner tie rod with a wrench on the flat (13 MM hex, if I recall) and twist the tie rod off.

You WILL need an alignment, after replacing the parts. (Don't forget to give the new tie rods a shot of chassis grease)

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, my Dad mentioned that to me yesterday about the alignment. Is there an "official" jacking spot in the front? We've always just jacked it up and put jack stands underneath the body that's like right behind and to the left/right of the wheel well - not the plastic, but the metal body/frame. I ask because I noticed small indented black spots from the jack stands being pressed into the metal.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

Could save yourself a little time later and just replace the inner with the outer tierod, that way you dont have to worry about getting the outer off of the inner. If the inner is bad and you have miles, may as well get the outer as well. The outer pretty much has to come out to get the inner out, could damage the threads otherwise.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Are you saying I might as well replace both the outer and inner tie rods? I do have 146K miles, so it's a good idea.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

I would replace them all with that kind of mileage. But what i'm saying is if you have to replace an inner, it makes sense to replace the outer as well because it has to come out.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Well, I stopped by O'Reilly tonight and told the guy I need inner tie rods. Turns out, he's a Pontiac/GM guy, has a '78 T/A, 300+hp Fiero (saw it in the parking lot as I pulled in), and he used to have a '97 WS6. Well, I told him that I was getting some really loud popping (like three successive pops) in one spot when I'm turning. He said that didn't sound like a bad tie rod. We went outside, he listened to the noise, turned the wheel, and such. He also said the steering seemed really tight to him. I mentioned that my Dad thought it was the rack and pinion when he first checked it out. The O'Reilly guy asked if when my Dad first listened to it was the car up in the air. It actually was, and the popping noise wasn't there when the car was on the jack stands. I told him the Midas guy said the inner tie rod was bad. O'Reilly guy said I should get a second opinion. What do you guys think?

Frogger

definately get a second opinion. Midas imo sucks. They wanted to have me undertake a $1700 job all because they didnt know how to correctly align our cars. dont trust a 'tune up' shop for anything other than directions to the nearest taco bell.

I have a popping sound when i turn right as well. Only happens when im going slow and turning sharply like a u-turn or drive-thru slalom type stuff (you know like from a gas station to a food drive-thru back to the street all seperated by dumb-*** medians and potholes. Im pretty sure its my tie-rod bushings but not 100%

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

I had Taco Hell for lunch today. She messed up my order, too. I wanted steak, not beef.

I'm going up to a Firestone in about an hour to have them look at it. The guy on the phone sounded reasonably competent, so that was reassuring. It's funny because I mentioned to that I stopped by Midas and he said they wanted to charge him $300 to install a Flowmaster.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Well, I just got back from Firestone. They said it's definitely the rack and pinion. He gave me a quote for what looks like a re-manufactured complete rack assembly for $247 and labor of $554. He said it's like a 5.5-hour job because you have to take out the subframe and support the engine to get to the rack and pinion. Is that right?

neutron82

iTrader: (26)

technically yes going by the book, but i highly doubt they will do it that way, they just tell you that to get a higher dollar work order... there are 2 bolts holding the rack in... 1 will come out with no problems, the other one will hit the bottom of the oil pan... the easiest way is to get a new bolt and use an air saw or hacksaw and cut the head of that bolt off so it falls out the bottom of the k member then you install the new bolt from the bottom... use a little red threadlocker on that bolt and you will be fine... some people get paranoid about that bolt falling out but if you get it tight and have thread locker on it there is really no way for it to come loose... i have had mine this way for over a year with no problems... the other way is to loosen the driver side motor mount and jack it up to get enough clearance to remove the bolt... i tried this but i have poly motor and trans mounts all around and it wouldn't hardly move... i even took it off the passenger mount as well and it just started to jack the car up... polyurethane doesn't give very much... so i just said screw it and cut the bolt off lol... the price on the rack sounds right but i would highly suggest doing it on your own it's really easy and will save you alot of money... if i was closer i'd help out but i bet if you ask some of the guys in the tx forum someone will give you a hand

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

lol. That sounds dangerous.

What do you think about getting a 50K-mile rack and pinion for $75 plus shipping?

neutron82

iTrader: (26)

lol nah it's not dangerous... the bolt really isn't going anywhere trust me... only way it's coming out is if you purposely loosen it and take it out... if people are that paranoid do they realize that the bolts holding the shocks to the front lca's came from the factory installed up through the bottom so it's the same concept... i'm kinda leary about used parts like that but if you can't afford a new or remanned rack then it might be worth a shot

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Well, the cheapest I've seen online is like $187 plus $100 core charge. O'Reilly has one for $243 plus $150 core change. Obviously, it would be easier to get the core charge if I bought locally at a store, not online.

Oh, if I anything, I suggested to my Dad that we could set the car on jack stands and see if we can raise the engine enough to get the bolt out and back in.

neutron82

iTrader: (26)

i got my rack from oreilly for a little over 200 so that sounds about right and it would be a better idea to get it locally that way you take the core right back and get your refund... if you have the factory rubber trans mount you will prob have more luck than i did... like i said the poly wouldn't give for ****... but doing it that way is just so much more work... you have to remove the alternator and ac compressor out of the way to get the mount bolts out... a good thing to do if you haven't already is to put the motor mount bolts in the opposite way so you don't have to remove the alternator and ac compressor everytime you need to loosen a mount

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Son of a bitch. I just had a new AC compressor installed.

neutron82

iTrader: (26)

you don't have to disconnect the lines, only remove the compressor from the bracket and you can rest the compressor on the sway bar, no worries... oh and be really careful with the alternator... you can rest that on the swaybar too but there is a super tiny red wire that goes into the alternator connector and it isn't very long... if you move the alternator too much it will pull that wire right out of the connector... my car wouldn't start because of it... i had to get a new connector and a longer pigtail wire so if i have to take it off again the wire will be plenty long

madhatter

The book only calls for 3 hours so that guy is smoking crack. I work as a service writer at a shop and actually just looked up the labor today for a friend of mine wanting me to do it in my driveway. It is not hard to do at all, even in the driveway. Replace the outers when you do the rack, the inners come installed already. Install your outers on the rack outside the vehicle, and try to get them as close as possible on the new one as the old one. Do not buy the cheaper outers at O'Reilys. They are junk. Get the Moog ones. Huge price difference, but I work on cars everyday and see what fails and what doesn't. Get an alignment immediately after.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Well, as I was leaving, he told me he'd give me 50% off. -_-

What's the procedure? Do I have to take off the subframe, jack the engine up, etc.? What about cutting the bolt head off?

madhatter

Haha what a crook. Sounds pretty desperate if you ask me.

From the book:

REMOVE OR DISCONNECT


Raise and suitably support vehicle.
Special security wheel lock nuts, if equipped.
Tire and wheels.
Place drain pan under steering gear (1).
Inlet and outlet hoses from steering gear. Refer to "Power SteeringLine/Hose".
Steering gear outer tie rod from steering knuckle.
Steering gear coupling shaft from steering gear.
Nuts (26) and bolts/screws (27).
Steering gear (1).
INSTALL OR CONNECT

NOTICE: Do not start the vehicle with any power steering gear inlet or outlet hoses disconnected. When disconnected, cap or plug all openings of components. Failure to do so could result in contamination or loss of power steering fluid and damage to the system.



Position steering gear (1) to crossmember (34).
Adjust the steering gear (1) so it aligns as straight as possible with steering gear coupling shaft.
Hand start bolts/screws (27) and nuts (26).
Position back-up wrench to nuts (26). Tighten bolts/screws (27) to 85 Nm (63 ft. lbs.) .
Steering gear to steering gear coupling shaft.
Steering gear outer tie rods to steering knuckles.
Inlet and hoses to steering gear. Refer to "Power Steering Line/Hose".
Tire and wheels.
Special security wheel lock nuts, if equipped.
Lower vehicle.
Refill and bleed power steering system.


To get to the two mounting bolts you will have to disconnect the alternator and compressor from their brackets like others have said. It really is one of the easier jobs on our cars, just a little time consuming.