Element

iTrader: (5)

Reading around a little bit, I've gone and confused myself. I know there are kits out there to completely retrofit the entire C5 caliper/rotor setup onto an f-body, but I've seen mentioned in a couple places that a C5 caliper by itself will bolt up without issue (and without any other parts) to an f-body, and still allow the f-body rotor to be used.

I've already got all the replacement f-body parts (rotors, pads, and braided brake lines), but I'm sort of kicking around the idea of swapping a set of C5 calipers in, assuming I don't need anything other than the calipers themselves (P/N 18FR1853 and 18FR1854). That'd also give me the option in the future (when I get some 17s) of buying the mounts to allow C5 rotors to be used.

Thoughts/opinions?

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

I would be interested to know also.

In addition, what are the feature points that make the C5 conversion kits better than stock on an SS?

Badazz 97 TA

iTrader: (18)

all it is is a bigger rotor and a caliper that says "Corvette" on it. the caliper and pads itself are the same as an f-body.

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

they might bolt right up! I know most use a bracket for the caliper, but I believe that's to make room for the C5 rotor, which is ~ 1" larger in diamter. With stock size rotors, I would think the vette calipers very well might just bolt into place.

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

I've *read* that the calipers are different in that one is cast one way, and the other is cast another way. I've even asked a few ppl that worked at PBR (they weren't in line production) and they didn't know if there was a difference or not. Supposidly the webbing that connects the floating side of the caliper is stronger on the C5, and this helps prevent spreading due to high heat applications, such as track days. The 'corvette' lettering is cast into the aluminum body of the caliper, so that tells me there are two different dies making the C5 and F-body calipers. Whether or not those dies and casting processes make a difference is debatable.

I would like to see a side by side comparison to help me decide. I wish there was a cheap way to get a bigger rotor and 4-piston caliper inside a 17" wheel!

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Maybe someone can post pictures of both, showing this webbing difference -- perhaps it's obvious from pictures?

Be happy you're not using those crappy single piston front calipers like on my '95 Camaro. Blah, instant rotor warpage.

Do you guys really want a part that says "Corvette" on a Camaro? I don't understand that appeal...

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

CMC limits rotor size to 12" or the stock diameter of the LSx based F-Car.

The stock LSx based F-Car's calipers were cast smooth across the top (between the pad contact surfaces) and made of cast aluminum.

Many, including me, would spread the caliper after repeated "abuse" on road courses.

The C5 caliper (black) and Z06 caliper (red) are a direct bolt on using the stock LSx based F-Car rotor, abutment bracket and pad.

The back or bridge of the caliper is thicker and has ribs that run across the back for added rigidity.

And you can't use the C5 pad because the arc of the rotor hub and the inner arc of the pad backing plate will rub causing other problems.

The only cause for concern (for me at least) is that the C5 caliper is a 1/4" wider between the pad contact surfaces. This is to accommodate a 1/4" thicker C5 rotor.

So, when pads get toward the end of their life while using the smaller F-Car rotor, the pistons in the caliper extend out 1/8" further than they would if there was a C5 rotor in place.

I've never popped a piston or blew a seal in the 3 years I've raced on them. I'm just sayin' ...

So yes ... the C5 caliper is much stronger and less prone to spread, is a direct bolt-on replacing the LSx based F-Car caliper and uses all the same hardware as an LSx based F-Car.

HTH ...

Element

iTrader: (5)

Interesting...may have to order a set of these (already replacing calipers and pads on my daily beater, might as well make next weekend a brake weekend) and see how it goes. The T/A doesn't see many miles, and I typically check brake pads at least twice a year, so I should be fine on catching the pads before they wear down too much and replace them.

Now, a follow-up...the only C5 calipers I can find are all reman calipers. I've had shitty luck in the past with reman items, but would an AC Delco reman be a safer bet than others?

Element

iTrader: (5)

Well screw it, went ahead and ordered a set of C5 calipers. Should be doing the brakes on the T/A next weekend, so I'll try and get some shots of the stock f-body caliper next to the C5 one, and the C5 calipers installed, just for reference in case anyone is interested.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

That helps, thanks. CMC? What's that? I hate acronyms.

SO any difference in quality/performance (besides color) with the C5 & Z06 calipers?

Also the ideal is to also run C5 or Z06 rotors AND pads then? Is the needed spindle cutting minor?

Who's got the better conversion brackets, UMI, BMR or someone else? It sounds like a conversion bracket is unnecessary, then why are they sold? Just to accommodate the C5/Z06 rotors/pads?

What about the C5/Z06 rear brake setup -- any different than the SS Camaro's?

Here's what UMI says:
"Benefits of Running the C5 Set Up

1. Larger Rotors: The larger rotor absorbs and radiates more heat, the C5 rotor is 1” larger then the LS1 rotor and 2” larger then the LT1 rotor
2. C5 Rotors are directional unlike the LT1 and LS1 set ups. C5 rotors feature fins designed to advance air flow allowing better cooling.
3. Many brake pad and rotor options are available for all types of driving
4. The C5 calipers are pressure cast not gravity cast; this helps increase caliper life
5. Unlike other brake set ups, C5 components can be purchased at any parts store. This eliminates down time when an item may fail or require quick replacement. "

Element

iTrader: (5)

The adapter bracket allows the use of larger C5 rotors and, I'd imagine, C5 pads. Since I don't road race or auto-cross, and I was going to rebuild my stock calipers anyway, going with C5 calipers is the most logical choice, especially as it'll let me pick up the brackets and C5 rotors/pads later if I want. The spindle cutting is, I think, limited to grinding off a casting tab or the like.

Looking at Rock Auto's site, the part number for the caliper lists it as "Corvette/Corvette Z06".

The rear brakes do so little braking, compared to the front (I think the general numbers are like 25% rear brake bias?) that the cost to performance gained ratio just isn't high enough for me to bother with. Hell, I've got Advance Auto blanks for the back, rather than the expensive rotors. I've still got the stock pads on the rear with 87k miles, too.

FancyFarmSS

iTrader: (5)

Yes, the adapter bracket pushes the caliper out so that it can accommodate the larger C5 rotor. Depending on what kind of adapter bracket you get, this will determine whether you use the Corvette or F-body abutment brackets (aka caliper mounting brackets). Besides being the part that the caliper mounts on, the abutment brackets determine which pads you use (because the pads sit in the abutment bracket). There are 2 different styles of adapter bracket that I know of. The UMI style bracket requires cutting of the steering knuckle, and allows you to use all Corvette parts including caliper, rotor, abutment brackets, and pads. I am fairly certain that you can not go back to the F-body size rotor with the UMI style adapter bracket because you have essentially cut off the part of the steering knuckle where the stock abutment bracket bolts up.

The LG Motorsports style bracket does not require any cutting. It allows a Corvette caliper and rotor to be used with F-body abutment brackets and pads. You can go back to stock with this style of bracket because you have not done any permanent modifications to the abutment bracket mounting surface. This is the type of bracket I installed. It was not cheap, but does allow for an easy, clean install.

Edit: To the OP: It may not be in your best interest to just replace the calipers with C5 calipers while leaving the rest of the system stock dimensions. This is because the C5 calipers have smaller pistons, which would mean that you would have less overall braking power compared to the F-body calipers with stock size rotors. You would need to simultaneously upgrade to C5 calipers and rotors to get the maximum benefit out of the new calipers.

Element

iTrader: (5)

Hm, interesting. Do the Corvette pads have a larger surface area, or is the difference negligible enough not to mention?

The reason I'm not going to Corvette rotors right now is because I'm still running 16" wheels, and most of the mod money for the next two months is going into finishing my suspension up, rather than new wheels/tires. I'm thinking, though, with new pads, shouldn't the difference between Corvette and f-body rotors be minimal, since worn pads would cause the pistons to come out approximately the same amount with an all-stock setup that a C5 caliper/f-body pads and rotors setup would?

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info, but the LG Motorsports kit only includes 12.8" rotors, not the Z06/C5 14" ones, which makes your OP comment bunk.

http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1556

Or should I be looking at a different link? Also, LGM does not appear to sell their bracket separately?! :-(

BMR's bracket listing on their site says nothing about spindle modification... Is it required for BMR's too?

Element

iTrader: (5)

I think he was referring to the thickness of the rotors, not the diameter, which mitchntx noted in his earlier post.

Just pondering though, using C5 calipers with f-body pads and rotors, at a 0% brake pedal input, the pistons would be 1/4" further out than if I were using C5 rotors. However, since fluid is incompressible, and braking efficacy doesn't seem to decrease as the piston is required to travel further out due to pad wear, I don't think using a thinner rotor would impact braking performance (ignoring heatsink issues), it would simply require slightly more fluid per caliper with brand new pads and f-body rotors, ergo, the same amount of fluid as C5 calipers with C5 pads and rotors would with worn pads.

I might be way off with that one, but my sleep-deprived brain seems pretty happy with it. Now, who has the stick to bash my theory to pieces?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

CMC = Camaro/Mustang Challenge
My on-board video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXyhPrzpi4E

C5 calipers having smaller pistons ... yes, they are smaller at 44mm. And in a hydraulic system, it will require more pressure to exert the same amout of force as the stockers.

But I certainly don't have any issue locking up the front tires in racing conditions. So, I am assuming the amount of force I can generate mashing my brake pedal is adequate, even at that reduced clamping force.

In fact, the reduced clamping force allows me to modulate the brake pedal more.

C5 rotors are 12.8" .... C6 rotors are 14". Installing C5 rotors REQUIRES moving to a 17" rim. CMC limits us to running 16" rims.

There are a LOT of pad and rotor choices going to the C5 setup. Not so much for an F-Body.

LGM brackets are a direct bolt-on. Lou actually prototyped these on my old street car.

I've never used the back-side mounting "L" shaped bracket. So I couldn't say what alterations are required. But if that were the route I was going to go, I would remove my LSx based F-Car knuckles and sell them to help off-set the cost of the conversion.

I would then find a set of 93-97 knuckles which would be gimmes because no one wants them. Then alter those and install the brackets.

FancyFarmSS

iTrader: (5)

From what I have read, the difference in surface area between Corvette and F-body pads is very small. I understand why you would not want to switch over to a complete C5 setup immediately. It is fairly expensive if you do it right, especially if you have to get larger wheels!

What I was saying to the original poster was that their braking performance may actually decrease a little if you get C5 calipers while leaving everything else the same. This is due to the smaller piston size vs F-body calipers. It may not be a noticeable difference. Of course, getting new pads, rotors, and brake lines would all help to increase braking potential.

I was comparing stock F-body rotors (11.8"-the size the original poster plans to use) to the 12.8" C5 rotors, which are the ones the C5 caliper is meant to work with.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

While searching for something else, I found my old review of the LGM kit ...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-comments.html

pdasterly

iTrader: (4)

would c5 rotors and f-body calipers make a good combo, since the f-body calipers bite harder than the c5 calipers

Element

iTrader: (5)

I may be wrong, but I don't think you'd be able to fit C5 rotors in an f-body caliper, since they're 1/4" thicker...don't know if there's enough play with brand-new pads to get the caliper on the rotor. Also, you'd be using the weaker caliper of the two.

I'm just pondering again, but the entire C5 setup might be better than the f-body setup due to the caliper being mounted further away from the center axis of the rotor, meaning it's going to have more stopping power due to leverage, even though both calipers use roughly the same pads.