Some Suspension Questions, Please Help :)
03-04-2012, 05:53 PM
#1
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Some Suspension Questions, Please Help :) Thought I'd ask this here since it's suspension questions 
Our cars take shocks not struts, correct? Atleast that's what I'm understanding from search on this site.
If that is the case, why is there both shocks and struts on part sites when doing searches for parts? And shocks are much cheaper($20ish for cheap vs $70 for cheap struts).
I'm needing to change my suspension components because there is almost none, and by that I mean I could run over a penny and I'll feel it in the car. The tinyest road imperfection and I'll feel it. I'm not going for the "best handling" setup, I'm going for the "comfortable" DD setup.
Also how many bushings are in our cars? As I'm getting ready to order these parts, I'm not sure how many of them I need to replace all of them.
Strut mount and strut "hat" are the same thing correct? Because a while back my mechanic rode in my car(passenger) and told me to change the strut "hats". How many of them are there? And once again(going back to the 1st question) if these cars have shocks(not struts) why are they called strut mounts then?
I know this is long, but any questions answered is greatly appreciated it, thanks
Our cars take shocks not struts, correct? Atleast that's what I'm understanding from search on this site.
If that is the case, why is there both shocks and struts on part sites when doing searches for parts? And shocks are much cheaper($20ish for cheap vs $70 for cheap struts).
I'm needing to change my suspension components because there is almost none, and by that I mean I could run over a penny and I'll feel it in the car. The tinyest road imperfection and I'll feel it. I'm not going for the "best handling" setup, I'm going for the "comfortable" DD setup.
Also how many bushings are in our cars? As I'm getting ready to order these parts, I'm not sure how many of them I need to replace all of them.
Strut mount and strut "hat" are the same thing correct? Because a while back my mechanic rode in my car(passenger) and told me to change the strut "hats". How many of them are there? And once again(going back to the 1st question) if these cars have shocks(not struts) why are they called strut mounts then?
I know this is long, but any questions answered is greatly appreciated it, thanks
03-05-2012, 12:21 AM
#2
I'll try to tackle part of this for you. The 4th gen F-Body (1993-2002) uses a double wishbone AKA unequal length A-arm suspension in front. I’m going to go ahead and assume this is what you drive (Camaro/Firebird/Trans Am). You are correct in that, like any suspension of this type, it has shocks and not struts. The confusion lies in that anytime we have a coil-over setup where the spring is wrapped around the shock absorber, people instantly think it's a strut. Cars with struts (for example, the 3rd and 5th gen cars) have a similar lower A-arm, but no upper A-arm. Instead, the strut both provides shock absorption and locates the hub as the suspension moves up and down. Additionally, because the hub must also turn for steering, the strut must rotate on its own axis, usually with a set of bearings at the top of the strut mount visible just under the hood. There are some modern suspension setups, namely Ford's Revoknuckle and GM's HiPer-Strut that attempt to divide the steering component out of the strut to eliminate torque steer in FWD cars, but we're getting off topic.
For all intents and purposes, you cannot switch from one type to the other. If your car has shocks, you buy shocks and that’s all there is to it. I don’t know what setup you are currently running or what you can spend on replacements, but I will paraphrase the consensus of this forum: If you do not have a lowered car and want to select the more affordable option, get Bilstein HD shocks and keep your stock springs. If you can afford it and particularly if you have a lowered car, get the Koni yellows. If you must lower your car, stay away from Eibachs and a set of Stranos is recommended (again, I’m just relaying the forum consensus, I have no experience with these products on my car).
If you have any bushings that are torn or cracked, get rubber bushings to replace them. Moog makes some nice 1LE style replacements which are a bit stiffer because they are solid, but will not bind on you. If you value a supple ride over all else, you can stick with the OEM style rubber bushings which have pockets formed into them for additional softness. Do not get urethane bushings as they will bind (especially in the rear lower control arms) and do not get rod ends or roto-joints for your purposes as they will be much harsher than what you want. Having greasable bushings and balljoints seems to be preferable to sealed, as members report that they last longer.
I don’t know exactly what “strut hats” your mechanic was talking about. If he made that assessment just by riding in the car without looking at the suspension or taking it apart, you might as well have shoved him out the door and kept on driving
. There are rubber isolators at the top of the rear springs and at the top of the front shocks/upper A-arms and there are rubber bushings at either end of the rear shocks. These can fail, but I’d wait to have them in your hands before making that diagnosis. The new shocks will come with new bushings, so this part is not a concern. Water can collect above the front isolator (apologies if I am using the wrong name for this rubber spring seat/flex point for the shock) and rust the upper shock nut to the shaft (which is often a stumbling point in the replacement process) and even damage the surrounding area. This could be the case, but even then, the rubber would have to be damaged quite badly to need replacing. Basically, I would not worry about this part for now.
For all intents and purposes, you cannot switch from one type to the other. If your car has shocks, you buy shocks and that’s all there is to it. I don’t know what setup you are currently running or what you can spend on replacements, but I will paraphrase the consensus of this forum: If you do not have a lowered car and want to select the more affordable option, get Bilstein HD shocks and keep your stock springs. If you can afford it and particularly if you have a lowered car, get the Koni yellows. If you must lower your car, stay away from Eibachs and a set of Stranos is recommended (again, I’m just relaying the forum consensus, I have no experience with these products on my car).
If you have any bushings that are torn or cracked, get rubber bushings to replace them. Moog makes some nice 1LE style replacements which are a bit stiffer because they are solid, but will not bind on you. If you value a supple ride over all else, you can stick with the OEM style rubber bushings which have pockets formed into them for additional softness. Do not get urethane bushings as they will bind (especially in the rear lower control arms) and do not get rod ends or roto-joints for your purposes as they will be much harsher than what you want. Having greasable bushings and balljoints seems to be preferable to sealed, as members report that they last longer.
I don’t know exactly what “strut hats” your mechanic was talking about. If he made that assessment just by riding in the car without looking at the suspension or taking it apart, you might as well have shoved him out the door and kept on driving
. There are rubber isolators at the top of the rear springs and at the top of the front shocks/upper A-arms and there are rubber bushings at either end of the rear shocks. These can fail, but I’d wait to have them in your hands before making that diagnosis. The new shocks will come with new bushings, so this part is not a concern. Water can collect above the front isolator (apologies if I am using the wrong name for this rubber spring seat/flex point for the shock) and rust the upper shock nut to the shaft (which is often a stumbling point in the replacement process) and even damage the surrounding area. This could be the case, but even then, the rubber would have to be damaged quite badly to need replacing. Basically, I would not worry about this part for now.