brendo389

My T/A has been pretty much bone stock since I bought it nearly 3 years ago and I'm pretty positive the shocks and struts have never been changed since new. I've never done autocross but it looks pretty addicting, and I'd prefer to set my car up for that rather than drag racing now that I'm ready to start dumping money into it. I'd like to do a coilover setup rather than shocks and struts, so what would be the ideal coilovers to run on the car? I plan on doing subframe connectors, and lower control arms as well as the coilovers before I get into any sufficient power mods.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

You should get tires, decent pads, rotors, change out the brake fluid, and then find scca event and go drive it, before anything else.

After that you may want to look at shocks, you'll hear a lot about Bilstein and Koni's very shortly, and for good reason. Probably the best value for dollar there is in handling performance shocks.

K&W and Penske are probably the best coilovers for handling, but they are high dollar, and are only coilover for the front. The rears are just shocks, sometimes with weight jackers.

Subframe connectors and LCA's are not real helpful, unless you do a bearing type joint, which may ef you on the autox classing later.

FYI, a pet peeve, you don't have struts, you have shocks all around.

brendo389

Whoops on the Struts, lol. I have BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2's, stainless braided lines and slotted rotors all around, carbon pads, etc. (don't remember the specific name of the brakes, they were $550 for front and rear rotors and pads, I'll get the name when I get home later and update this), and I also run DOT-4 high performance brake fluid. I've done a small Autocross at an Import Face Off event (yes, random place), and it was pretty loose and prone to spinning. Since the car is my summer DD I don't want to do anything 3-way or crazy adjustable so I'll compare those coilovers; I do drag the car once in a while, so LCA's would be nice for lighting up the tires and not wheel hopping like crazy, and I've heard SFC's stiffen the chassis up a bit when combined with a strut tower (I have a BMR strut tower bar), but I could be mistaken? Also need new bushings to run the WS6 Sway bar I picked up off a friend a few years ago, would that help with turn in and whatnot as well?

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Spending money makes you much faster, so spend PLENTY.



Sam Strano wins multiple SCCA championships in a Fbody on Koni shocks and struts.....oh, never mind.

Buy some Penske coilovers.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Oh really?

The last time a "shock" was put on the front of an Fbody was 1981, since then they have had struts on the front, shocks in the rear.

brendo389

For a daily driven car are the Variant 3 KW's worth the $2400 or will it be hell to drive with on a daily basis? I'm prepared to dump what I need to into the car to make it handle, but I just want to be sure the stage 3 coilovers are worth the cost over the 2-way adjustable ones that are about a grand cheaper. All I've heard is good about Strano though, so that's a bit of a confidence boost!

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

Any good, cheap struts and shocks at the parts store?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...l#post14268260

You say it's loose. You're running the stock T/A sway bars front and rear? Sam will tell you start with replacing the shocks. If you buy from him, he'll help you tune it. Koni SA's give you the ability to adjust rebound. If you're going to get LCA's atleast get them with one side that uses a rod end or roto-joint to prevent binding in roll.

Sub frame connectors do stiffen up the chassis, that's been proven. The issue people who autox with them have is that they don't seem to stiffen in a way that actually provides any handling benefit. From that perspective they only add weight.

z28_theantirice

iTrader: (2)

You should be taking a serious look at the Viking coilovers offered by a couple of venders on here. They are very reasonably priced and are getting some good reviews. That is the route I'll be going for my autox build.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/news/d...ocksstruts.cfm



A Strut supports the weight of the vehicle, a Shock does not. Whether is has an upper control arm or not.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

I've seen him, his video is wrong.

Here's Pat Goss, from that video, explaining further...

Basics of Shocks and Struts by Pat Goss

jrwilliams95z28

That's not correct, a shock by itself is a shock, a spring by itself is a spring, i shock and spring assembly is a strut and yes F-bodies have them on the front.

JD_AMG

And you'll regret it.
You should do some more research on here and frrax. Look at what the fast guys in 4th gens are running, they arn't drag shocks like vikings...

This is completely wrong.
4th gens have coilover shocks, 3rd and 5th gens have struts.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Before you spend a bunch of money on parts, why not work on the nut behind the wheel first? That'll also give you time to read the rules so you'll understand which aftermarket parts will put you in a noncompetitive class.

If you decide you like it, then call Sam Strano and/or spend some time researching on frrax.com. The common setup will include 35/21mm solid sway bars (or the hollow equivalent), Bilstein or Koni SA's shocks, ~500-650F/150-200R linear spring rates. Best to spend a fair amount of months learning on street tires before switching to race tires as the latter will tend to mask driving mistakes.

The stainless brake lines are good, the slotted rotors aren't necessary... just use plain flat rotors in the future. Never tried carbon pads... once I started autocrossing, I only used semi-metallic pads. ATE is a popular inexpensive brake fluid for this use. Here's one of my favorite learning links on brake parts:

http://www.essexparts.com/learning-center

I would skip the subframe connectors, and stick with stock LCA's with Moog replacement bushings.The LCA angle for handling is different than it is for drag racing. For drag racing you want the axle side lower, for handling you want the LCA level or just a few degrees higher at the axle. If you lower the rear end enough where you need LCA relocation brackets, stick with the weld-on variety.

Once you start buying parts, try to only change one part per event so you can feel the difference each part makes. Then as you add additional parts you have firsthand knowledge how the parts change the feel of the vehicle. I couldn't agree more on your car color choice, however

Flaring Afro

I'd just go as is first. I went a few times but decided it wasn't for me, at least where I live. They have it in 2 places. One is a drag strip parking lot that's full of loose gravel and oil spills so it's quite slippery, and they always had everything compact enough that I couldn't get up much past 50 before the next turn came so I rarely even shifted. The other course has turns that end right next to a concrete wall that you then move along. I heard it wasn't completely uncommon for people to accidentally hit it so I've never gone there as this is my only car. I decided that $45 plus gas wasn't worth it for a total of 10 minutes of driving at this place.

Spending a lot of money before going would be like deciding you want to play guitar and buying premium instruments before trying, well except some things like shocks could be nicer on the street anyways.

brendo389

Pads are Hawk HP++ pads, rotors are Hawk Quietslot's, I'll get to reading that Essex page soon; I plan on bringing the car out to a local autocross this coming weekend, so I'll get some wheel time in then. The stock shocks are getting to the point that I can put a finger on the spoiler and the whole rear end will drop, absolutely horrid and the car has insane body roll at the moment, so I'm thinking I'll invest some time and research into doing suspension itself first. I have a WS6 front sway bar but no bushings for it yet, is that a good one to use or should I just think about the Strano front, and rear sways? As for the tires, my current ones I've heard are "very good" for autocross and/or track use, but are definitely not slicks; I have a friend willing to let me use his, but I'll get a lot more practice in before I switch over to those. I'm also about to make a username on FFRAX, so I'll get into heavy research right away! Should I decide to do the full Strano setup or bits and pieces, do I need to bring my car directly to Strano, or just call Sam and give him an idea on what my wants are, and the current car setup? BTW thanks (everyone) for the help, I'm seriously loving this and can't wait to get the car setup!!!

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

IIRC, the WS6 front bar is a 32mm hollow and the standard standard bat was a 30mm... whether or not it's better will be based upon what's currently installed, and the front and rear bars tend to act in tandem with respect to vehicle balance. But if you end up liking the sport then you'll end up going to a larger front bar rate and a matched rear bar rate at some point in time. If you bought the car used it might be worth your while to inventory what the prior owner already has changed.

The rear LS1 brakes have too much bias from the factory, which can cause the rear brakes to lockup too soon and cause rear axle brake hop. The usual solution is to run a less aggressive pad on the rear to work around that issue... if you have the same pads all around, you're likely to experience this issue once you've truly driven the car in anger

If you choose Sam, you just order parts from him and have them installed locally or do it yourself if you're up to it. Call him and discuss your goals, your experience, your budget, your time window, etc. He's not known to try to sell you things which aren't proven nor which you don't need. If you absolutely insist, he is willing to take your money though.

I got out of autocross back in 2009, I think I participated for about 6-7 years straight. Started out as a street racer, then a drag racer, then got tired of damaging clutches and rear ends. Went to a car meet one night and street raced what turned out to be an autocrosser in his classic Camaro. A number of changes I had already made to the car put me in very difficult class which I could never win with other vehicles 'built to the hilt' of the rules.

I got out of it because the runs were too short, courses usually designed for small nimble vehicles, too long of delay between runs, getting up at 6am, 45 minute drive each way, etc... bang for the buck was no longer there for me. But if you stick with it for a a couple of years, it truly makes you a better all around driver.

brendo389

The Strano set comes with all of the bushings, mounts, etc, so I'll probably just order that, and sell the WS6 bar to someone. The rear brakes do definitely lock up early under heavy braking, it's Very noticeable and has scared the hell out of me more than once when I've had to jam on the brakes! I'll make sure I get a set of less-high performance rear pads to even that out a bit. I have a friend with a life, and am pretty mechanically inclined myself, so I'll do the work myself, and save a little cash! I bought it used, and it wasn't driven lightly; I've basically replaced every part in the engine bay that breaks from the water pump, to doing a Turn One PS Pump, C5R Tensioner, etc, and I've been doing what I can to get it back to better than stock in prep for being driven hard, but able to handle it. Is Sam pretty flexible on a budget? I'm still in college, but I work 3 jobs, and am prepared to spend $2k+ if needed for the right setup

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

You should consider using Redline power steering fluid if you're not already with the T1 pump.

You don't need to buy it all at once unless you choose to do so. Sam's prices are competitive with some of the best prices out there, but what you don't get from the other vendors is his years of championship driving and setup assistance after the sale. Not everyone agrees on the ultimate handling setup, and you'll undoubtedly come across conflicting opinions. He used to have a small staff so sometimes he could be slow to respond, especially if he's away from the office at Nationals, for example. Usually his website will mention this.

And, if you decide you like it, sign up for any autocross schools to learn from national caliber instructors. Sam used to be an instructor at some schools, not sure if he still does it.

brigade24

I ran comp 2s for a few autox events last year and they were actually surprisingly grippy for a 300+ tire.

i know its hard to resist but i would learn to "feel" your car for autox before modifying it...that way you know why you're modifying.

when you do you start modifying, here's my order:
-shocks and springs
-sways (stranos are pretty good)
-Watts Link
-Race diff (optional)

I run SA konis and used to run strano springs and they were good but the front springs are not enough so i went with a ground control kit...i should have gone KW V3s.

you will discover that suspension is never done.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

No. We essentially have a coilover shock setup on the front. Not a strut. Upper and lower ball joint, with a spindle arm connecting the two that the wheel is then attached to = not a strut.

Just because the spring sits on a seat on the shock body vs directly sandwiched between the arms doesn't make it a strut.

Still, when looking for parts like the upper mount, everyone calls it a "strut mount."