TTopJohn

Bit the bullet and ordered an all new suspension the other day from Sam Strano. I highly recommend Sam, he'll spend hours with you on the phone answering any questions you can come up with, and bringing up things you hadn't even thought of. I ended up with the normal Koni/Bilstien setup, with a few tweaks to ensure zero increase in NVH and account for the 111,000 miles on the car. Figured I would post up since I've been picking everyone's brain for about a year to come up with this, and someone might want to duplicate the whole thing or parts of it.

Up Front
Stock springs with Koni SAs on the lower perch for 3/4 inch drop.
35mm Hollow anti-roll bar with poly endlinks and poly bushings.
New rubber bushings (Lower control arm, Upper control arm) ball joints, tie rod ends - a mix of TRW & Moog parts.


In Back
Stock springs isolators removed and replaced with 5/8 heater hose, with 3rd Bilstiens
New moog rubber LCA bushings
Energy suspension poly panhard rod bushings,
poly torque arm bushing


The desire was to freshen the 111K mile dead stock suspension, not lower it (much - 3/4 inch drop should still clear everything), and end up with something that was a comfy BMW like daily driver, that could hold up to an occasional road course lapping event.

The increased stiffness of the 35mm front bar will let me run the Koni's softer for a better ride. The mix of mostly rubber and a few poly bushings should provide a solid suspension setup with no increase in NVH over stock.

Should be installed and aligned in about 2 weeks - I'll report back then.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

I think you'll be pleased with that setup. Outside all the additional bushing, you're running very close to what I'm running (Koni SA all around and 35mm solid ST front bar)

Even with the 35mm front bar I'm running 4 sweeps from full stiff up front, and 4 turns from full stiff out back. It's very streetable, yet a tremendous improvement over the stock setup. I do plan on going to a stiffer rear bar in the near future though. When pushing the car really hard, I can really feel the rear roll noticably. Under normal or semmi-aggressive driving though it's very nice.

TTopJohn

Anyone considering this or a similar setup, DO IT.

Got it all installed today. Konis set to full soft.

Wow, this is amazing. The car feels rock solid, at any speed. The ride is MUCH more controlled, yet it never beats you up. Firm, but never harsh. Bumps that used to make me cringe, now I hardly notice them. Handles speed bumps better. The rear end doesn't skip over broken pavement, even when making a 90 degree turn on the gas - it's spooky, like someone swapped an IRS under the back while I wasn't looking.

Got to do some 95mph cruise on a twisty freeway, and it tracks like a freight train, never getting upset by bumps, dips, or other pavement imperfections. Feels like it weighs 1000 pounds more, but in a good way, like the way a 7 series BMW feels going down the road, solid and secure and not going to deviate from it's intended path no matter what the obstacle. Feels like an F55 Corvette set to "sport".

And it looks damn good too, the lower perch on the Konis and the 5/8 heater hose in the rear give it a stance that is either dead level or a touch nose down. But I can still pull up to a parking lot curb and not scrape.

In short, it's perfect now.

Bigvic

That sounds like something I would like to duplicate. One question though. I didn't see an adj. PHB listed in your sig, so I assume you are using the stock piece. I know that 3/4" isn't that much of a drop, but is it enough to warrant an adj. PHB, or is the stock piece keeping the rear centered?

Also, how has this setup affected your straight line traction/launches?

Lastly, how much did this setup set you back (not including installation)?

TTopJohn

Don't know about straight line launches, I'm not much of a drag racer (read "I can't launch a 6 speed so I just gun it from a roll").

Stock panhard rod seems to be fine, rear looks centered to the naked eye. Haven't taken a tape measure to it though. I'll check in the a.m. The drop is about 3/4 in the front, more like 1/2 inch in the back...
If you wanted to add an adjustable PHR, that certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

Sam sold me the Koni Bilstien package for $610 plus shipping. His 35mm hollow front bar is $199 plus shipping. The rest of my cost (besides installation) consisted of bushings, tie rod ends, and ball joints, Which you may not need if your car doesn't have 113K miles on it like mine does.

I can't say enough about Sam Strano, he's the expert, I'm just the beneficiary of his knowledge. He dead on nailed a perfect package for my needs, and spent hours talking with me over e-mail and the telephone to get there. I could not be happier with the way this modification turned out.

TTopJohn

Update - just drove through the high 5 construction area on Central northbound(for those not in dallas, it's a multi year pain in the *** project on 2 of our major expressways, with a curvy bumpy uneven path through it, that used to throw the car all over the place) on the way to work this a.m.

Wow.

The car is not upset by any of it anymore. Even on the one big dip then bump north of 635, that used to make the car hit, and then bob about 1 and 1/4 times (same bump made my rental stratus hit and bob 3 times), now it's almost like that bump is not there. You can feel that something is there, but it's like a layer of velvet or moleasses is over it now, and the car hardly moves. It's an unfathomable improvment in ride and control.

Shoulda listened to you guys earlier - a performance alignment and good shocks bring this car to a whole new level.

VIP1

Well, you said above what you did for suspension. But, what did you do for an alignment?

My car only has 33,500mi and its starting to drive funny. It likes to push to one side or the other with minor dips in the highway. The rear-end will hop over a road joint in mid-turn.

Do you have a cost total (minus bushings and ball joints)? I may do a similar setup soon.

TTopJohn

Koni Bilstien package from Sam is $610, 35mm bar is $199.

I don't have the actual printout from the alignment shop, but this is what I told them: -.7 camber, +4 Caster (max this out, priovided you still can get -.7 camber) and 1/32nd toe in.

The toe decision seems to be personal preference - if you want dead straight tracking, toe in. If you want quicker turn in, 0 toe or toe out.

Hagarr

iTrader: (6)

I am very interested in this thread. I recently purchaed Bilstein HD's and will install them soon but was also thinking about some springs. Would like to lower the car only a little bit...just like you have.

What is the lower perch you are referring to?

Brian

TTopJohn

The lower perch is only on the Koni Single Adjustable front shocks. (it's not even on the Koni double adjustable shocks) There are two grooves on the shock, with a snap ring - put the snap ring in the lower groove, and the spring perch sits lower, dropping the front about 3/4 inch while still using the stock soft spring.

If you don't have the Koni SA's, you can't do this without lowering springs (or maybe some sort of height adjustable coil over type kit? that's outside of my range of knowledge).

I don't know of a lowering spring that will drop it only 3/4 of an inch. Most claim a 1 inch to 2 inch drop.
I decided a long time ago that I was sticking with the stock springs, as a result I don't know aftermarket springs too well. Hopefully someone else will chime in that does.

Hagarr

iTrader: (6)

Ahhh...I see. Thanks

I am pretty sure the Hotchkis springs only drop about an inch.

B

VIP1

Thanks for the info. That helps alot.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

What do we know ... we're just some kids on Dad's internet connection ...

TTopJohn

LOL, mitch they didn't have internet in your dad's day.

John95Z28

I hear they've got that "internet" thing available on computers now...

VIP1

They have computers now, wow. Is it true they dont fill a room anymore?

(I'm actually a Software Architect)

John95Z28

Well if they did still fill a room and require their own air conditioning, then maybe we wouldn't have so many bored script kiddies out there infecting Grandma's new Dell with the latest worm. Dude, yer gettin' a virus!

(I'm actually a Domino application developer when I'm not ranting off topic...)

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

<shudder>

I hated coding data bases in Lotus Notes ...

</shudder>

John95Z28

Oh come on, Notes is wonderful! It could be much worse... you could try developing using the tool of the devil
<ScreamInTerror>
ms exchange
</ScreamInTerror>

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Access ...