Brake problem
06-22-2006, 11:38 AM
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Brake problem I recently overhauled my brake system and am rather dissappointed with the performance that has resulted...was hoping someone here may have some thoughts as to what may be the issue.
Brake job included pulling off all 4 calipers, cleaning them up and painting them (brackets black, calipers pewter, and several clear coats - doubt that really matters though). Replaced all the rubber lines with the stainless steel braided set from Goodridge (including the 2 traction control lines). Replaced all stock pads with Hawk HPS and replaced the 4 rotors with Powerslots.
During all of the teardown and reassembly, we watched the reservoir to make sure it didn't drop low enough to pull air into the lines (definitely didn't want to get air into the ABS system). Once everything was reassembled, I bled the crap out of the system. Probably ran 5 bottles of fluid through the entire system to make sure I got all of the old fluid and air out of the lines.
Now, as for the current performance... it sucks. Best I can describe is that when you push the brake pedal in normal driving conditions, it feels like you have to go waaaay to far before the brakes grab. I know the calipers are closing under light pedal pressure because I can hear the flutter of the pads against the slots, but there is no indication of the car slowing down. If I absolutely stand on the brakes, I can get ABS to engage probably 75% of the time if I am travelling between 35 and 40mph. At speeds lower than that ABS is a bystander. Granted, the 555RII's I have all the way around give me great traction, but I should still be able to get ABS events with no problem.
Any ideas? I was thinking that maybe the pads just suck, but there are too many people running these with no issues or statements that they are worse than stock durastops... I probably have 500 miles on this new setup, so I don't think it is anything to do with break-in (performance/feel has been the same the entire time). Air in the lines still (can't imagine how)? Air in the ABS system?
Thanks for the help.
Brake job included pulling off all 4 calipers, cleaning them up and painting them (brackets black, calipers pewter, and several clear coats - doubt that really matters though). Replaced all the rubber lines with the stainless steel braided set from Goodridge (including the 2 traction control lines). Replaced all stock pads with Hawk HPS and replaced the 4 rotors with Powerslots.
During all of the teardown and reassembly, we watched the reservoir to make sure it didn't drop low enough to pull air into the lines (definitely didn't want to get air into the ABS system). Once everything was reassembled, I bled the crap out of the system. Probably ran 5 bottles of fluid through the entire system to make sure I got all of the old fluid and air out of the lines.
Now, as for the current performance... it sucks. Best I can describe is that when you push the brake pedal in normal driving conditions, it feels like you have to go waaaay to far before the brakes grab. I know the calipers are closing under light pedal pressure because I can hear the flutter of the pads against the slots, but there is no indication of the car slowing down. If I absolutely stand on the brakes, I can get ABS to engage probably 75% of the time if I am travelling between 35 and 40mph. At speeds lower than that ABS is a bystander. Granted, the 555RII's I have all the way around give me great traction, but I should still be able to get ABS events with no problem.
Any ideas? I was thinking that maybe the pads just suck, but there are too many people running these with no issues or statements that they are worse than stock durastops... I probably have 500 miles on this new setup, so I don't think it is anything to do with break-in (performance/feel has been the same the entire time). Air in the lines still (can't imagine how)? Air in the ABS system?
Thanks for the help.
06-22-2006, 11:49 AM
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From driving his car last night, compared to mine (my setup is just brembo blanks all the way around with hawk HT-10 race compound pads in the from, GM replacements in the rear, nitto 275 555RII's up front and 315 555R's in the back) his brake pedal is EXTREMELY hard. As soon as you touch it you can here the pads flutter, but you keep pressing and there's no increase in stopping power until you hit a certain point where it grabs OK...
Mine the pedal is fairly easy to push in the first part of travel, you feel the pads grab, the pedal gets harder, and you are slowing down....
Also... mine if I'm doing 50, and stab the brakes to test a panic stop, it feels like the car wants to endo, although the rear tires do stay firmly planted, perfectly straight, and stops very quickly.
His, you stab them, the nose goes down, but just not as hard as mine, his ABS does kick on, but I can barely feel it working, and you don't come to stop anywhere near as short or as quickly....
Any ideas?
Mine the pedal is fairly easy to push in the first part of travel, you feel the pads grab, the pedal gets harder, and you are slowing down....
Also... mine if I'm doing 50, and stab the brakes to test a panic stop, it feels like the car wants to endo, although the rear tires do stay firmly planted, perfectly straight, and stops very quickly.
His, you stab them, the nose goes down, but just not as hard as mine, his ABS does kick on, but I can barely feel it working, and you don't come to stop anywhere near as short or as quickly....
Any ideas?
Last edited by VipZ28; 06-22-2006 at 11:58 AM.
06-22-2006, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by daryl2cb@yahoo.com
did you paint the pistions in the calipers, how bout the sliders, working? I think this is related to the good ridge lines. Keep bleeding.
No, we only painted the "faces" of the calipers. The sliders were all still perfect, but we'll check them again... I seriously doubt we need to "keep bleeding"... But I'm sure we will be attempting that as well.
06-22-2006, 03:38 PM
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No paint inside the calipers where the pistons are...didn't paint the sliders. Sliders were fine when reassembled, plenty of grease on them.
I'm sure that I'll try to bleed them again, but it is to the point that I can't imagine how bleeding anymore can do anything. There isn't a trace of old fluid at any corner at this point, and I don't really see air still being trapped in a line somewhere. Only point that I could possibly be convinced air is at (other than possibly in the ABS system) is in the traction control lines, because they were a pain to get to and are higher than the rear calipers...
I'm sure that I'll try to bleed them again, but it is to the point that I can't imagine how bleeding anymore can do anything. There isn't a trace of old fluid at any corner at this point, and I don't really see air still being trapped in a line somewhere. Only point that I could possibly be convinced air is at (other than possibly in the ABS system) is in the traction control lines, because they were a pain to get to and are higher than the rear calipers...
Originally Posted by daryl2cb@yahoo.com
did you paint the pistions in the calipers, how bout the sliders, working? I think this is related to the good ridge lines. Keep bleeding.
06-22-2006, 07:24 PM
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I hate to say it but it sounds like you still have air in the system. I would do a search to find the right way to blead the ABS module. It's hard to beleive it could be in the lines after 5 bottles worth of line bleading. Also, did you make sure there isn't a leak in the system.
