bayer-z28

iTrader: (14)

I took a turn somewhat fast the other day and my front end plowed over even when I had the wheel turned. I'm going to start Auto X this summer, so I don't want this happening during time qual.

The only thing stock on my suspension is my K member, A arms and sway bars. Would a Set of BMR sway bars solve this? Maybe I should just blip the gas to get the rear somewhat loose to help a little w/ cornering..... -It works w/ the quad......

9" wide FT wheels @ 30psi, 10" wide rear wheels @ 28psi. GS-D3 Tires.

-SUSP mods as follows-

Hotchkis Lower Control Arms w/ Polyurethane Bushings
BMR Chromemoly Adjustable Torque Arm W/ Poly Bushing
BMR Chromemoly Strut Tower Bar
BMR Chromemoly Tubular Subframe connectors
BMR Chromemoly Adjustable Panhard Bar
BMR LCA Relocation Brackets
Eibach Pro Kit Drop Springs
Bilstien Re-valved shocks
Energy Suspension Trans Mount

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

A push ...

A turn has 3 distinct sections.

Turn in ... the weight of the car is on the nose
Mid corner ... the weight is neutral
Corner exit ... weight on the rear

So, where does it push? I'm guessing mid corner when the car transitions the weight off the nose ... off the brakes and on the gas.

Looking at your laundry list suspension parts, I would be inclined to think the poly bushings are binding mid corner off. And the lower air pressure in the rear (more grip) isn't helping. And your spring rates just absolutely suck, I don't care what shock you mount up.

Blipping the throttle helps the car rotate, but a slipping tire can't offer you any forward bite.

Easy and cheap solution? Put a pair of 3/8" wheel spacers on the front and see if that helps.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Probably a messed up alignment and/or no negative camber--possibly even positive. Not enough dynamic camber control, bigger rear wheels than front, etc, etc..... And it's likely you hit some dirt and just slide the nose too.

Would bars help? Maybe, but like Mitch said there are different phases and causes of understeer (as well as oversteer). BMR bars? I'd pass, you already have too much rear roll stiffness vs. the front, all of our track and autox cars are relatively more stiff in the front than the rear, your LCA's are binding up adding more stiffness.

There is a reason I use the bars I use, and that's for camber control and balance. You can go a different way if you like, it's a free country. But I also don't think what you experienced will be 100% cured by bars either

bayer-z28

iTrader: (14)

^Right. Sway bars might not help. I'm gonna do some Auto X this summer in a different town. The roads here are slippery for some reason. No matter what season it is. My buddy has a FULL suspension. Add sway bars to what I have basically, just Eibach. His car is stiff as hell.

mitchntx, no go on the wheel spacers, he Rebels stick out enough as it is. Bushings binding on the sway bars maybe? -I've been druling over a new set since I got the car 4 years ago.

I believe it was begining of mid corner. THe roads around here suck too. I can break them loose at 40 in 2nd gear. Oily roads. It was an open 90* corner, the turn was at the beginning of a downslope. The road I was turning onto was headed slightly uphill. As soon as I started the turn I kind of steered a little more aggressively to see how the car would act. It slid for about 10 feet.

I tried it again later that day and I got hellatiously sideways w/ MILD throttle in 2nd gear. I was doing about 15 mph. THis is in town. The turn was clear of traffic, that's why I tried it.

Enlightening theory, tho.. Thanks!.. ... I never actually thought of it like that.

FYI, I NEVER accelerate into a turn. It's bad news on these cars. It was half way thru mid turn I started rolling into the throttle again. I can't wait to hit the track this summer!..

Sam Strano, What would you recommend for my driving style? I am a mix driver for now. DD, occasional track times, and occasional Auto X. I would LOVE to do some Auto X this summer, which is a definite go, as far as things look for the local car club...

gun5l1ng3r

I think when you start to throw off-camber turns into the equation, the parts that you have and how well you car is setup start to have a very BIG roll in how the car handles.

The off-camber turns(I think I am using the correct terminology-a turn where there is a rise or lowering in elevation) in my car have REALLY improved a lot since I went with the Koni SA's as compared to the stock DeCarbon's.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

You have answers from 2 very smart guys already (Sam and mitchntx).

You didn't really answer about your alignment? Do you know what it is? Factory settings will equal a built in push. Some neg camber and zero toe may work wonders in this push issue. U need all the help you can get w the bigger rear tires.

bayer-z28

iTrader: (14)

I had my car aligned after I lowered it. The only place, that I know of, that aligns w/ 18" wheels. He used this OLD style alignment equipment. HE has apparently been there for a long time, "Bob's Precision Front End". If he's been there for that long, he must know what he's doing. Plus I've heard that the older style equipment is just as good as the newer Hunter Wireless heads.

I'm gonna go and check out another shop I just found, see what they say. I really don't know what the #'s are, but it wanders at 50-65 (lose center. -I think it might be due to my fronts being SLIGHTLY wider then the back. The Rebel Wheels stick out a little)

It's dead STRAIGHT at anywhere over 80. Scary straight! I can let go of the wheel and it doesn't even twitch.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

more negative camber help the car turn. As the car's weight shifts, it leans over onto the outside, which will make the front tire more vertical. As the sidewall flexes, it rolls the tire under the wheel and reduces the tire's contact patch. Dial in negative camber to lessen this effect. There is a point of overall diminishing returns, though. Too much negative camber makes the car ride on the inner part of the tire. This also reduces contact patch under heavy, straigh-line braking.

The more positive caster you dial in helps with high speed stability. With the tire leaned back (upper ball joint behind the lower), initial steering wheel input has a lesser effect on changing the car's direction than if the ball joints were perfectly aligned. As you give more steering input, the turning effect has an exponential effect, that is the quicker steering input becomes. That's not to say the steering ratio changes, rather the effect of the given ratio changes. Subtle differece. The downside is you feel a little less feedback from the steering wheel and steering become "heavier". It taxes the hydraulics a little more.

Zero toe or toe out makes the steering input feel more precise and the car will react quicker. It lessens the effect, somewhat, from lots of caster. The downside is the car is a lot "twitchier", requiering a more focused driver.

Alignment specs, like spring rates and sway bar sizes boils down to personal preference and driving style. There is no set in stone spec for your specific application. You will have to experiment some with different settings in order to get it where you like it.