Mrincredible

The Baer will cost about $800 more and they both have 13" rotors. Which look like it would perform better?

C5 conversion: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1741568
Baer Kit : http://www.baer.com/products/complete/track.php

Proud2bSS

iTrader: (2)

My c5 upgrade works great for me. MUCHO better than the OEM f-body brakes.
I did my conversion for less than $500 for all 4 wheels: Hawk HP pads, zinc washed d/s rotors, c5 front calipers w/ abutment brackets and the conversion brackets (trackbracket design). It pays to shop around AND be in the right place at the right time.

I can't imagine that I would really see ? x $100's better braking performance by having gone with a similar 2 piston caliper kit. A Wilwood type kit is in another realm, and is 5 times the cost vs what I was able to do.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Neither. Stick with your stock calipers.

Baer's products are the same as ours. Baer GT and GT Plus are Corvette Calipers only repainted and slapped with a Baer decal. Corvette Calipers are made by PBR and the Baer's GT's are made by the same company.

Bear's Track Caliper kit is the same "kit" as the 03-04 Cobra calipers. Again, Ford Cobra's Calipers are made by PBR and again Baer's Track kit is made by PBR.

"I can't imagine that I would really see ? x $100's better braking performance by having gone with a similar 2 piston caliper kit. A Wilwood type kit is in another realm, and is 5 times the cost vs what I was able to do."

You don't see a difference between going from a stock 2-piston setup to a Baer 2-piston setup but you see a difference between going from a stock 2-piston setup to a Corvette . . . . . . 2-piston setup? Holy run-on sentence Batman!

Check out my thread I opened up named, "Back to the Drawing Board, . . ." I've looked up the 60-0 ft braking times for the 97-04 Corvette and it averaged: 121.888 if I remember correctly. Then I looked up the same 60-0 ft brake times for the 98-02 F-Body LS1's and the times averaged 121 even. No difference to me at all. That's the reason why I ditched the C5 Brake Conversion. Part of the reason why you might have noticed a difference, a "MUCHO" difference to be exact, is most likely because of the brand new rotors, fresh pads and properly bled brake fluid.

Proud2bSS

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I've read (depending on the testing magazine) that 2001-2004 Z06 60-0 tests were between 103' to 123', with most of the tests showing less than 110'. I believe that the lighter curb weight of the 2002 Z06 (3120+/-) is a significant part of the stopping equation versus the 2001 f-body (3400+/- LS1 w/ M6). 12.8" rotors will not stop better than 12" rotors, regardless of the car?

Sure, I seriously doubt that my upgrade will bring my SS down to less than a 110' 60-0, but for the price of my upgrade what I have now is better than a the OEM setup.

sroach20

iTrader: (31)

if you were doing 90 and hit your brakes they would both stop the same. if you did it 6 times in a row do you think the fbody setup would perform the same as the c5 setup?

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

I hardly go 90. I hardly, if ever, do hard braking going 90 +. Let alone doing it six times. Waste of money, in my opinion.

firefighter

If you call Baer they will reluctantly admit the C5/6 caliper is the same as their GT caliper. Take that for what it's worth.

Dex

iTrader: (5)

Damn thats good tech right there sticky this thread already
My **** warped at 12,000 miles and that was shortly after getting the car. I think it was one good stop from 70 that did them in. Standard retards on the road

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

I'm doing the C5 conversion, but not because of sub 100mph braking performance. It's because of 100mph+ performance. F-body brakes are useless above 100mph. C5 brakes still work reasonably well at those speeds. I don't regularly cruise at 100mph plus speeds, but when I do, it is all the more important to me that I can stop safely.

I was actually going to C6 Z06 brakes, had most of the parts even, then decided against it because you have to get C6 Z06 wheels to use those calipers.

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

Im pretty sure you dont have to have the C6 Z06 wheels to do it just at least an 18" wheel up front in order to clear the caliper.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Very few wheels have the spoke clearance to fit those calipers. You really can't appreciate how huge they really are until you hold them in your hands. They are freakin massive. My (18x9.5) 58mm offset Z06s wouldn't fit them, and as i'm sure you know, those wheels have NO DISH whatsoever. I asked all over the place and the general consensus with people who have done the conversion on C5's and f-bodies is you need C6 wheels or C5/Z06 wheels with a 1/4" spacer. Or if you've got the cash, talk to Iforged or CCW about your needs, they'll take care of you i'm sure. But so far, that's your list of options for the C6 Z06 brakes.

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

Ah ok then lol

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Let me rephrase: To me, it would not be of any benefit. To an auto-cross car, there would be a SLIGHT benefit. I think it is a waste of money to go with a C5 Conversion. It's almost like going from an LS1 block to an LS6 block. Go big, or go home. If you are finding that you need beefier, bigger and better brakes, you should look into a Willwood Kit, Brembo, Stoptech and etc. I do agree that there is a slight benefit to a C5 Conversion but the frustation, time, money and patience spent on it is hardly worth it.

You really think if you ran a C5 Brake System, that you wouldn't have warped your rotors doing a hard 70 brake? Do you think that the C5 Rotors somehow resist warping? Now that I think of it, the 12.8 Rotors is the ONLY benefit to this conversion.

RUNINHOT

iTrader: (10)

If you run 18's on your car, wouldn't the 12.8 rotor make more of a difference over the smaller rims. I mean you then have a larger roating mass to slow down then.

02TransAm/Batmobile

iTrader: (32)

Yes and know. Theoretically, you could have a 30 inch rotor. With the same calipers, it would not slow you down any much more than if you had it hooked up to a 12.8 inch rotor. The calipers are what slows you down. Bigger calipers hold bigger pads and therfore create more bite into the rotors. Plus, bigger calipers hold more pistons and you could take it from there. Larger rotors are considered a benefit mostly for their ability to dissipate heat.

To me, if you do a C5 brake conversion, the only thing you accomplished is a cooler-running rotor system.

sroach20

iTrader: (31)

never said they would not warp. its the calipers that matter. The C5 calipers are pressure cast, ribbed for strength and therefore less prone to "spread" or flex, like F-Body calipers do under extreme duty.

Proud2bSS

iTrader: (2)

It's all about generating more friction. You have to have bigger surface area (rotors and pads) with more clamping power (more pistons and/or stronger calipers).

Bottom line: the original poster asked about the Baer system vs the c5 upgrade route.
I am guessing that for the $ he is probably willing to spend for a better system (vs the oem fbody), he will obviously see less difference than a Wilwood, Stoptech, etc., but he didn't ask about those.

So, he can either save his $ for the $2000+ systems, or he can go his original route.

lo_jack

iTrader: (27)

There may be some truth to this, but there is one thing you are have not considered that you might do well to examine, especially if you are right: Cost over time. C5 rotors are big and cheap. They are generally cheaper and more widely available than fbody rotors. There are some higher end options, for sure, but I found a pair of c5 rotors for $50 shipped. For that price, I can blow them up in 3 months and get a new pair, do that four times and still not approach the cost of Wildwoods or stoptechs or something like that. Alternatively, if you do not need to go 100, you can opt for stockish c5 components, which will still deliver good stopping but not run up the bill quite as fast in the long run. Or be hardcore and have a set of both on hand. Either way, it is much easier to tackle than a 2-3K shot for an off the shelf kit.

They resist warping better than fbody fronts, because they are bigger and heavier and can therefore absorb more heat and dissipate it faster. That is what a rotor is for, no? Changing the kinetic energy of vehicle travel/ wheel spin into heat so the car stops moving? That is why they are made of cast iron, yes? For the heat properties?

I did that switch for maybe $500 all told. Really good fbody front rotors and pads would have cost me perhaps three fifths to three quarters of that anyway, and that is a fraction of a real big brake kit. It was not difficult, and it only took an afternoon. If you were to go to a big brake kit as you suggest, you would have to do everything I did except perhaps borrow the sawzall and lob off a mounting ear. Everything else is a wash - new rims? Gotta do those for anything bigger than stock rotor. Lines? Most people would do those anyway because everything else is already off.

In any case, I think you are painting a much larger dispairty than there really is. The gains may not be Baer-esque, but neither are the costs.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Not true. A 30" rotor, caliper for caliper, would slow you down alot more than a 12.8" rotor thanks to increased leverage. Even for the same pad area. You would experience extreme fade problems, but the initial braking force generated by the 30" rotor would be significantly more than the 12.8" rotor. Think about it just like a large 2x4 attached to a spinning wheel. If you want to stop it, it's going to be alot easier to stop that wheel by grabbing the 30" 2x4 than it would be by using a 12.8" 2x4. It's all about leverage when it comes to rotor size.


No argument there, however this is the exact reason why the C5 brakes are noticeably better than the f-body brakes. Stronger castings and larger pads create more clamping force.

lo_jack

iTrader: (27)

^ I completely forgot about moving the moment arm out when you do the C5 conversion. Good catch.