Building your own ABS Delete.
07-23-2007, 05:29 PM
#1
Building your own ABS Delete. This is something that I've been thinking about for a little while. I definitely think that I can handle the mechanical end of it, after all, it's just bending a few lines, then cutting and flaring the ends.
I'm just not sure what all exactly I need, and if the brake line sizes are the same between the master cylinder and the ABS Block. I want to completely get rid of the braided lines, and have a nice clean setup on the frame rail.
Here is what all I have come up with so far that I need:
Proportioning Valve
Brake Tubing
Tubing Cutter
Tubing Bender
Double Flaring Tool
"T" or possibly "F" junctions ( 2 of them )
Whatever fittings I can't re-use from the lines that I already have
I'm also going to relocate my line lock off the top of my fender, to clean everything up very nicely.
If anyone has done this before, I would be very appreciative of any advice you could give, especially regarding what fittings and junctions I would need. I'd rather have all of my ducks in a row BEFORE I start, and not have to run back and forth to the parts house.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is a project I would like to undertake in the next month or so.
I'm just not sure what all exactly I need, and if the brake line sizes are the same between the master cylinder and the ABS Block. I want to completely get rid of the braided lines, and have a nice clean setup on the frame rail.
Here is what all I have come up with so far that I need:
Proportioning Valve
Brake Tubing
Tubing Cutter
Tubing Bender
Double Flaring Tool
"T" or possibly "F" junctions ( 2 of them )
Whatever fittings I can't re-use from the lines that I already have
I'm also going to relocate my line lock off the top of my fender, to clean everything up very nicely.
If anyone has done this before, I would be very appreciative of any advice you could give, especially regarding what fittings and junctions I would need. I'd rather have all of my ducks in a row BEFORE I start, and not have to run back and forth to the parts house.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is a project I would like to undertake in the next month or so.
07-24-2007, 03:42 PM
#3
You're not the first to consider it.
If you're doing it to save funds, you're not going to really save much, it probably will actually cost you more in the end...not to mention the amount of time it is going to take you. Not really worth the time if you're driving all over the place for components.
If you're doing it for the "my own mod" factor, then cost doesn't really matter. Some people prefer to build their own setups which can be very nice to do and boast about.
The kit that you would need from us costs 139.99 which includes 4 pre-formed lines, fittings and proportioning valve....you'll spend ~50.00 for the wilwood valve which does not include all the lines, fittings etc. You'll also need a variety of specialty tools such as a bubble flare tool and double flare tool not to mention a multitude of benders...some of our bends cannot be done on a simple bender you can purchase over the counter. Some specialty fittings you cannot purchase over the counter either.
Good luck. If you have additional questions about our kits, feel free to ask. All kits are in stock and ship within 24 business hours.
If you're doing it to save funds, you're not going to really save much, it probably will actually cost you more in the end...not to mention the amount of time it is going to take you. Not really worth the time if you're driving all over the place for components.
If you're doing it for the "my own mod" factor, then cost doesn't really matter. Some people prefer to build their own setups which can be very nice to do and boast about.
The kit that you would need from us costs 139.99 which includes 4 pre-formed lines, fittings and proportioning valve....you'll spend ~50.00 for the wilwood valve which does not include all the lines, fittings etc. You'll also need a variety of specialty tools such as a bubble flare tool and double flare tool not to mention a multitude of benders...some of our bends cannot be done on a simple bender you can purchase over the counter. Some specialty fittings you cannot purchase over the counter either.
Good luck. If you have additional questions about our kits, feel free to ask. All kits are in stock and ship within 24 business hours.
07-24-2007, 06:22 PM
#4
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
You're not the first to consider it.
If you're doing it to save funds, you're not going to really save much, it probably will actually cost you more in the end...not to mention the amount of time it is going to take you. Not really worth the time if you're driving all over the place for components.
If you're doing it for the "my own mod" factor, then cost doesn't really matter. Some people prefer to build their own setups which can be very nice to do and boast about.
The kit that you would need from us costs 139.99 which includes 4 pre-formed lines, fittings and proportioning valve....you'll spend ~50.00 for the wilwood valve which does not include all the lines, fittings etc. You'll also need a variety of specialty tools such as a bubble flare tool and double flare tool not to mention a multitude of benders...some of our bends cannot be done on a simple bender you can purchase over the counter. Some specialty fittings you cannot purchase over the counter either.
Good luck. If you have additional questions about our kits, feel free to ask. All kits are in stock and ship within 24 business hours.
If you're doing it to save funds, you're not going to really save much, it probably will actually cost you more in the end...not to mention the amount of time it is going to take you. Not really worth the time if you're driving all over the place for components.
If you're doing it for the "my own mod" factor, then cost doesn't really matter. Some people prefer to build their own setups which can be very nice to do and boast about.
The kit that you would need from us costs 139.99 which includes 4 pre-formed lines, fittings and proportioning valve....you'll spend ~50.00 for the wilwood valve which does not include all the lines, fittings etc. You'll also need a variety of specialty tools such as a bubble flare tool and double flare tool not to mention a multitude of benders...some of our bends cannot be done on a simple bender you can purchase over the counter. Some specialty fittings you cannot purchase over the counter either.
Good luck. If you have additional questions about our kits, feel free to ask. All kits are in stock and ship within 24 business hours.
I would look at your kit a little closer Steve, if I could navigate your site.
Currently I can't look at a damn thing, because it keeps asking me if I would like to allow your site access to my Clipboard.
No matter which button I press, it keeps popping up over and over again, to the point where I can't even get to the next page. 
But I'm weighing my options, and if I decide that I don't feel like doing this, then you're the man I'm gonna call.
07-24-2007, 06:43 PM
#5
I totally understand. As I mentioned, there is a self-accomplishement that some get from doing their own things. Most though do it to try to save money...which many times isn't as anticipated. Pay attention to your locality of where you place your components, create a safe LL circuit...I've seen some folks move things around putting them in high-heat areas which affect longevity and performance of components.
Regarding navigation of our site...I appologize, it needs revamped due to the new IE7 changes and "security" prompts.
This is a common problem with other websites I've viewed. To correct this annoying problem until microsoft doesn't default this to "prompt" (or add a "do not prompt" check-box) or we and others re-code the site do this...do the following.
Ahh the wonders of IE7 and their updated "security" prompts.
Open Internet Explorer
Go to:
Tools/Internet Options
Click “security” tab then go to “custom level”
Scroll down almost to the bottom to
“Scripting”
Then under “allow Programmatic clipboard access” choose “enable” instead of “prompt”.
Save and close settings. This will remove the consistant prompting that you are seeing.
Regarding navigation of our site...I appologize, it needs revamped due to the new IE7 changes and "security" prompts.
This is a common problem with other websites I've viewed. To correct this annoying problem until microsoft doesn't default this to "prompt" (or add a "do not prompt" check-box) or we and others re-code the site do this...do the following.
Ahh the wonders of IE7 and their updated "security" prompts.
Open Internet Explorer
Go to:
Tools/Internet Options
Click “security” tab then go to “custom level”
Scroll down almost to the bottom to
“Scripting”
Then under “allow Programmatic clipboard access” choose “enable” instead of “prompt”.
Save and close settings. This will remove the consistant prompting that you are seeing.
07-24-2007, 08:03 PM
#7
Originally Posted by 1nastyss
good luck on it, but im just going to skip the bullshit hassel and order the setup from SJM
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07-24-2007, 08:34 PM
#9
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Sigh. Why build your own? Take the pump motor off the back of the stock unit. Take the electric board off the front. Leave the AL block alone. Congrats! You have done the free !ABS mod.
I bet it will weight super close to the delete block.
I bet it will weight super close to the delete block.
Front side is gonna go to the LL, then into a Tee with both front lines.
Rear side is gonna go into the Proportioning valve, then into a Tee with both rear lines.
How does all that weigh more than a piece of aluminum with a bracket attaching it to the car?
Edit: Originally put "less" where "more" is. Because... y'know... less is more.
Last edited by DOUBT IT; 07-24-2007 at 09:03 PM.
07-24-2007, 08:38 PM
#10
Originally Posted by DOUBT IT
How does all that weigh less than a piece of aluminum with a bracket attaching it to the car?
I went ahead and bought the SJM kit although I still have yet to install it. For me, having the stuff all in one package is nice...there are still plenty of ways to take this kit and make your install a custom one since you have the option of where you want to splice into the lines.
07-25-2007, 08:45 AM
#12
Depending on the year (LS1 or LT1), not only is the modulating unit heavy, especially on LT1 cars, the entire bracket is very heavy. All in all, 15-20lbs can be removed.
A short-term solution for ABS disabling would be to pull the fuse; little benefits are seen with replacing the modulating unit with an aluminum block. I'm not sure why someone would cut a block of aluminum, drill port holes and cut threads. Fluid flow characteristics could be affected as well depending how the ports were cut…This seems like it would be more work (not to mention quite a bit costly) verses cutting stock-lines and splicing them together...which I wouldn't recommend either since with either method, you have absolutely no ability to bias the brake system. Though a bit more time consuming, our kits have the ability to either leave the stock braided lines attached OR remove them. Removal does have benefits as overall braking can have a more firm feel due to braided line expansion in comparison to steel tubing.
Some may neglect to realize is the fact that when you disable ABS, you have no proportioning or adjustment between front/rear brake bias. This means you're now running 100% of the time a 50/50 ratio. You have no way to tune the system brake bias. When stock, the brakes were biased via ABS/TCS system. …disable ABS, this is where a proportioning valve is necessary.
So why not use a pre-set proportioning valve like from an older camaro? Unless you knew exactly what your setup required, I can say with a high degree of certainty that your bias will not be correct. Why the need for adjustability? Not every car setup is the same, changing to aftermarket brakes/pads/rotors, tires, and weight distribution all affect brake bias needs.
Reason/benefits of removing the entire ABS block and associated brackets:
1) Appearance
2) Needed space for supercharger/turbo
3) Increased engine bay air flow
4) Ability to run a variety of tires without ABS/TCS problems
5) Correct braking problems due to malfunctioning ABS/TCS
6) ABS/TCS troubleshooting eliminated
7) NON ABS/TCS rear-end are generally less costly and weigh less further decreasing unsprung suspension weight
My responses are not to argue with anyone. I'm trying to add a few tidbits of information for readers. Doubt it is considering to build his own setup which I respect. For others, we do have kits designed for your car for a rather quick plug and play setup very reasonably priced.
A short-term solution for ABS disabling would be to pull the fuse; little benefits are seen with replacing the modulating unit with an aluminum block. I'm not sure why someone would cut a block of aluminum, drill port holes and cut threads. Fluid flow characteristics could be affected as well depending how the ports were cut…This seems like it would be more work (not to mention quite a bit costly) verses cutting stock-lines and splicing them together...which I wouldn't recommend either since with either method, you have absolutely no ability to bias the brake system. Though a bit more time consuming, our kits have the ability to either leave the stock braided lines attached OR remove them. Removal does have benefits as overall braking can have a more firm feel due to braided line expansion in comparison to steel tubing.
Some may neglect to realize is the fact that when you disable ABS, you have no proportioning or adjustment between front/rear brake bias. This means you're now running 100% of the time a 50/50 ratio. You have no way to tune the system brake bias. When stock, the brakes were biased via ABS/TCS system. …disable ABS, this is where a proportioning valve is necessary.
So why not use a pre-set proportioning valve like from an older camaro? Unless you knew exactly what your setup required, I can say with a high degree of certainty that your bias will not be correct. Why the need for adjustability? Not every car setup is the same, changing to aftermarket brakes/pads/rotors, tires, and weight distribution all affect brake bias needs.
Reason/benefits of removing the entire ABS block and associated brackets:
1) Appearance
2) Needed space for supercharger/turbo
3) Increased engine bay air flow
4) Ability to run a variety of tires without ABS/TCS problems
5) Correct braking problems due to malfunctioning ABS/TCS
6) ABS/TCS troubleshooting eliminated
7) NON ABS/TCS rear-end are generally less costly and weigh less further decreasing unsprung suspension weight
My responses are not to argue with anyone. I'm trying to add a few tidbits of information for readers. Doubt it is considering to build his own setup which I respect. For others, we do have kits designed for your car for a rather quick plug and play setup very reasonably priced.
07-25-2007, 01:32 PM
#13
Quick question for Steve:
Is it necessary to put teflon tape/paste on every junction, even though most are going to be Inverted Flare?
And IIRC, the fittings into the Master Cylinder are metric and are bubble flare, correct?
Also, does anyone know whether the factory lines are metric or SAE?
I'm betting that they're metric, even though they look like 1/4" leading to the ABS block, and 3/16" leading from the block to the calipers.
I'm gonna pull out the dial caliper and do some measuring this weekend, and seeing as how I work at an auto parts store, take a look at what adapters I need to make everything jive together.
I'm gonna be gathering parts as time/spare cash allows. I *promise* that I'll do a writeup for you guys, but it may be in September. I'm trying to mod my car and get everything ready for my wedding at the same time. Then I'll be in Mexico for a week.
Is it necessary to put teflon tape/paste on every junction, even though most are going to be Inverted Flare?
And IIRC, the fittings into the Master Cylinder are metric and are bubble flare, correct?
Also, does anyone know whether the factory lines are metric or SAE?
I'm betting that they're metric, even though they look like 1/4" leading to the ABS block, and 3/16" leading from the block to the calipers.
I'm gonna pull out the dial caliper and do some measuring this weekend, and seeing as how I work at an auto parts store, take a look at what adapters I need to make everything jive together.
I'm gonna be gathering parts as time/spare cash allows. I *promise* that I'll do a writeup for you guys, but it may be in September. I'm trying to mod my car and get everything ready for my wedding at the same time.
Then I'll be in Mexico for a week.
07-25-2007, 07:39 PM
#14
Okay, I did some thinking today, and I think that I have it all figured out.
For those who don't know:
NPT = National Pipe Thread
BF = Bubble Flare
IF = Inverted Flare
AN = Army/Navy ( 37* flare )
Anyone who might know can give their opinion of this idea...
Front Brakes:
I'm gonna run a BF metric ( 10mm I'm pretty sure ) to 1/4" IF adapter at the master cylinder to the line-lock ( which I think is already 1/4" IF, if not I'll convert it
), then come off the line lock with a 1/4" IF line, into a 1/4" IF to 3/16" IF adapter, which will go into the 3/16" tee. If the stock lines will work, then I'll just screw them in, but I think that they're metric, so I'll have to get some standard 3/16" fittings to screw into the tee.
Rear Brakes:
Again with the M10BF to the 1/4"IF, then to the proportioning valve, which will need a 1/4"IF to 1/8"NPT. Then another 1/8"NPT to 1/4"IF coming out. Then I'll go to a 1/4"IF to 3/16"IF adapter into a tee, then off to the rear calipers.
Cliff's Notes:
Front Brakes: MC ---> M10BF to 1/4"IF ---> LL ---> 1/4"IF to 3/16" IF ---> 3/16" tee ---> Front Calipers
Rear Brakes: MC ---> M10BF to 1/4"IF ---> 1/4"IF to 1/8"NPT ---> Wilwood proportioning valve ---> 1/8"NPT to 1/4"IF ---> 1/4"IF to 3/16"IF ---> 3/16" tee ---> Rear Calipers
What do you guys think? I think that it'll work and still not have *too* many adapters.
From reading up on the boards though, it seems that I need to either find a metric double flaring tool, or use a similar trick to Steve's. I was just going to put a small C-Clamp on the flaring tool as I was using it, to put pressure on the area where I'm flaring, to keep the line from slipping out.
For those who don't know:
NPT = National Pipe Thread
BF = Bubble Flare
IF = Inverted Flare
AN = Army/Navy ( 37* flare )
Anyone who might know can give their opinion of this idea...
Front Brakes:
I'm gonna run a BF metric ( 10mm I'm pretty sure ) to 1/4" IF adapter at the master cylinder to the line-lock ( which I think is already 1/4" IF, if not I'll convert it
), then come off the line lock with a 1/4" IF line, into a 1/4" IF to 3/16" IF adapter, which will go into the 3/16" tee. If the stock lines will work, then I'll just screw them in, but I think that they're metric, so I'll have to get some standard 3/16" fittings to screw into the tee.Rear Brakes:
Again with the M10BF to the 1/4"IF, then to the proportioning valve, which will need a 1/4"IF to 1/8"NPT. Then another 1/8"NPT to 1/4"IF coming out. Then I'll go to a 1/4"IF to 3/16"IF adapter into a tee, then off to the rear calipers.
Cliff's Notes:
Front Brakes: MC ---> M10BF to 1/4"IF ---> LL ---> 1/4"IF to 3/16" IF ---> 3/16" tee ---> Front Calipers
Rear Brakes: MC ---> M10BF to 1/4"IF ---> 1/4"IF to 1/8"NPT ---> Wilwood proportioning valve ---> 1/8"NPT to 1/4"IF ---> 1/4"IF to 3/16"IF ---> 3/16" tee ---> Rear Calipers
What do you guys think? I think that it'll work and still not have *too* many adapters.
From reading up on the boards though, it seems that I need to either find a metric double flaring tool, or use a similar trick to Steve's. I was just going to put a small C-Clamp on the flaring tool as I was using it, to put pressure on the area where I'm flaring, to keep the line from slipping out.
