Are any of these shocks junk?
08-07-2007, 07:15 AM
#1
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Are any of these shocks junk? Hopefully I don't get yelled at for asking this but can someone tell me if all these shocks are ok to use. What would be better yet is if you can list which ones are best from top to bottom on stock springs. I have SLP headers so i won't be lowering my car. I know Koni's are the best but I won't be spending that much.
List:
Bilstein HD's
KYB
Tokico
Gabriel
Springtech
List:
Bilstein HD's
KYB
Tokico
Gabriel
Springtech
08-07-2007, 01:50 PM
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do a search on sensa-tracs and youll find out why they suck. the only good shocks are the bilsteins or konis. i dont know about the springtechs but the rest of those suck, not the bilsteins.
09-03-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gun5l1ng3r
^Sensatracs??? I would think the Decarbons would even be better than those...
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09-03-2007, 11:36 AM
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i've had the adjustable KYBs on my car for almost a year. they're great. i have mine set to setting 6 of 8 and they're pretty damn stiff. i have 0 complaints.
09-03-2007, 12:38 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Ruckus46Gt
no difference or issues after over a month. Had no choice but do get them, due to the fact the car was aprat and needed to go back togther the same day and thats all i could get my hands on. If i had time i would have gotten qa1's. I wouldnt go with koni's or bilstiens, money is no issue for me either way
09-03-2007, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JD_AMG
Unless you have a track only (dragracing) car, why wouldn't you want Konis or Bilstiens?
09-03-2007, 07:44 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Ruckus46Gt
i like cars that hook not spin, so want something that can transfer if thats on the steet or the track i want to hook. Konis and that are to stiff, did i want monroes no but they are soft enough and car still lifts in the front, but yet rides like stock. Thats all i want is stock handling no need for an auto x suspension here
09-03-2007, 08:53 PM
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its real simple everyone.
The cars that are best down the drag strip are terrible as daily drivers and even worse as sporting cars (fun to drive around corners). Try to drive a top-fuel car through the twisties. Or, more realistically (sort of), a full on pro-street car. If this is your style, then by all means, get soft shocks, tub the rear end and put skinnies on up front.
The cars that are the best for cornering can still be quite good as daily drivers and very quick down the strip. Look at an italian exotic- in absolutely no way whatsoever do they have a drag race setup, but they can still run 10's in the quarter and handle like a slot car and are silky smooth as daily drivers.
You've got to decide what you want up front.
As for the shocks- If you're into drag racing, you might as well just stick with the stock springs and shocks, or if they need replacement, whatever else is cheap.
If you're into anything else besides the drag strip. Or if you want lowering springs (lowering is counterproductive if you're into the straight line thing, btw) You'll need shocks that are capable of providing you with good dampening- especially if you have lowering springs as they can be as much as double the spring rates of stock. When it comes to dampers, you get what you pay for... A $75 shock- which probably only cost $25 bucks or less to mass produce, simply will not work as well, or last as long, or handle as much rate as a much more expensive shock.
It took me a while to warm up to the idea of spending 800 dollars on a set of shocks, but when I think about how bad shocks were making my SS which cost many times that amount handle and ride like a far inferior car- I decided quality dampers were well worth the price. I think it is also worth noting that there are even more expensive shocks out there- 1,000 bucks per shock and up.
drag racing- stock springs and shocks- or over-the-counter replacements
daily driver/street racing/sports car- bilstein HD's with stock springs only or Revalves/Konis with whatever spring you like (within reason)
The cars that are best down the drag strip are terrible as daily drivers and even worse as sporting cars (fun to drive around corners). Try to drive a top-fuel car through the twisties. Or, more realistically (sort of), a full on pro-street car. If this is your style, then by all means, get soft shocks, tub the rear end and put skinnies on up front.
The cars that are the best for cornering can still be quite good as daily drivers and very quick down the strip. Look at an italian exotic- in absolutely no way whatsoever do they have a drag race setup, but they can still run 10's in the quarter and handle like a slot car and are silky smooth as daily drivers.
You've got to decide what you want up front.
As for the shocks- If you're into drag racing, you might as well just stick with the stock springs and shocks, or if they need replacement, whatever else is cheap.
If you're into anything else besides the drag strip. Or if you want lowering springs (lowering is counterproductive if you're into the straight line thing, btw) You'll need shocks that are capable of providing you with good dampening- especially if you have lowering springs as they can be as much as double the spring rates of stock. When it comes to dampers, you get what you pay for... A $75 shock- which probably only cost $25 bucks or less to mass produce, simply will not work as well, or last as long, or handle as much rate as a much more expensive shock.
It took me a while to warm up to the idea of spending 800 dollars on a set of shocks, but when I think about how bad shocks were making my SS which cost many times that amount handle and ride like a far inferior car- I decided quality dampers were well worth the price. I think it is also worth noting that there are even more expensive shocks out there- 1,000 bucks per shock and up.
drag racing- stock springs and shocks- or over-the-counter replacements
daily driver/street racing/sports car- bilstein HD's with stock springs only or Revalves/Konis with whatever spring you like (within reason)
09-04-2007, 10:38 AM
#15
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by Ruckus46Gt
ight i'm not even going to get into it your another one of the koni stranos or everything else is junk people
09-04-2007, 11:03 AM
#16
I find it utterly amazing how people pick sides based on who's saying something (or who they think is), and not on the facts.
The facts are you have people in this thread who have had various shocks and can directly attest to the differences. The fact is that we know there are people out there who hook as well (and some better) than with QA1's. The facts are that most people do not understand how shocks work and just what they do and that leads to a lot of poor decisions. The fact is that if you want the car to hook and all, you don't put lowering springs on. Lowering springs, by design are shorter and stiffer to lessen body roll and weight transfer side to side. Funny thing is they do the same thing front to rear with the pitch too. I hate to shoot holes in your argument about why you think everything but QA1's suck, but "hooking" is either really not your true goal, or you don't know that lowering springs aren't meant for "hooking" Ever notice that drag springs are tall and soft??????
I might be crazy, but I kind of like my shocks to actually damp the spring and the mass of the car. If I wanted soft and uncontrolled I'd be looking to run old stock shocks, not paying big bucks for new ones that are soft and uncontrolled. Go figure.
As for AGX, I'd rate them above QA1's too, but not a hell of a lot higher. Just on this forum we've had two instances where the rear shock eye has broken off the damper itself. And that's not even getting into the way the adjustment works and what it effects. They are passable at best, nothing more.
The facts are you have people in this thread who have had various shocks and can directly attest to the differences. The fact is that we know there are people out there who hook as well (and some better) than with QA1's. The facts are that most people do not understand how shocks work and just what they do and that leads to a lot of poor decisions. The fact is that if you want the car to hook and all, you don't put lowering springs on. Lowering springs, by design are shorter and stiffer to lessen body roll and weight transfer side to side. Funny thing is they do the same thing front to rear with the pitch too. I hate to shoot holes in your argument about why you think everything but QA1's suck, but "hooking" is either really not your true goal, or you don't know that lowering springs aren't meant for "hooking" Ever notice that drag springs are tall and soft??????
I might be crazy, but I kind of like my shocks to actually damp the spring and the mass of the car. If I wanted soft and uncontrolled I'd be looking to run old stock shocks, not paying big bucks for new ones that are soft and uncontrolled. Go figure.
As for AGX, I'd rate them above QA1's too, but not a hell of a lot higher. Just on this forum we've had two instances where the rear shock eye has broken off the damper itself. And that's not even getting into the way the adjustment works and what it effects. They are passable at best, nothing more.
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09-04-2007, 03:26 PM
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I can speak to the stock, Bilstein and Gabriel - qualitatively
at least.
I could not hook with stock springs / shocks and could not
hook with Hotchkiss / Bilsteins and could not hook with the
rear shocks swapped out to Gabriels and cannot hook with
Gabriels and stock springs minus the donuts now. Street
tires are the weak link.
I found the Bilsteins unpleasantly hard riding in combo with
the Hotchkiss springs. This is why they went, in favor of the
Gabriels which I selected because of the other lowering
artifact, a dragging-*** appearance (despite equal actual
lowering by the tape measure). I got the air shocks. While
it may be Joe Dirt style, I've been happy with them, the rear
feels well controlled. Since going back to stock rear springs
I do not even put air in them but there's no motivation for
me to take them out.
Maybe there is some tell-tale that shocks are not up to par
but if there is (besides the old bounce-the-bumper) I haven't
discovered it while running any of the above. My DeCarbons
went away before 10K miles and the Gabriels have been on
there for about 10K I'd say. I don't put a lot of annual miles
down anymore.
I haven't ever run across quantitative data on the low-end
aftermarket shocks to say whether they are indeed "soft".
Not like springs. I have seen bump & rebound damping numbers
on Bilsteins (SLP & regular) but that's it. I guess it is something
that could be tested although anything with velocity sensitive
valving would need that to be fancier than I could manage.
That kind of data would actually be useful in parts selection,
more than marginally informed opinions like mine.
at least.
I could not hook with stock springs / shocks and could not
hook with Hotchkiss / Bilsteins and could not hook with the
rear shocks swapped out to Gabriels and cannot hook with
Gabriels and stock springs minus the donuts now. Street
tires are the weak link.
I found the Bilsteins unpleasantly hard riding in combo with
the Hotchkiss springs. This is why they went, in favor of the
Gabriels which I selected because of the other lowering
artifact, a dragging-*** appearance (despite equal actual
lowering by the tape measure). I got the air shocks. While
it may be Joe Dirt style, I've been happy with them, the rear
feels well controlled. Since going back to stock rear springs
I do not even put air in them but there's no motivation for
me to take them out.
Maybe there is some tell-tale that shocks are not up to par
but if there is (besides the old bounce-the-bumper) I haven't
discovered it while running any of the above. My DeCarbons
went away before 10K miles and the Gabriels have been on
there for about 10K I'd say. I don't put a lot of annual miles
down anymore.
I haven't ever run across quantitative data on the low-end
aftermarket shocks to say whether they are indeed "soft".
Not like springs. I have seen bump & rebound damping numbers
on Bilsteins (SLP & regular) but that's it. I guess it is something
that could be tested although anything with velocity sensitive
valving would need that to be fancier than I could manage.
That kind of data would actually be useful in parts selection,
more than marginally informed opinions like mine.
09-04-2007, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Strano
I find it utterly amazing how people pick sides based on who's saying something (or who they think is), and not on the facts.
The facts are you have people in this thread who have had various shocks and can directly attest to the differences. The fact is that we know there are people out there who hook as well (and some better) than with QA1's. The facts are that most people do not understand how shocks work and just what they do and that leads to a lot of poor decisions. The fact is that if you want the car to hook and all, you don't put lowering springs on. Lowering springs, by design are shorter and stiffer to lessen body roll and weight transfer side to side. Funny thing is they do the same thing front to rear with the pitch too. I hate to shoot holes in your argument about why you think everything but QA1's suck, but "hooking" is either really not your true goal, or you don't know that lowering springs aren't meant for "hooking" Ever notice that drag springs are tall and soft??????
I might be crazy, but I kind of like my shocks to actually damp the spring and the mass of the car. If I wanted soft and uncontrolled I'd be looking to run old stock shocks, not paying big bucks for new ones that are soft and uncontrolled. Go figure.
As for AGX, I'd rate them above QA1's too, but not a hell of a lot higher. Just on this forum we've had two instances where the rear shock eye has broken off the damper itself. And that's not even getting into the way the adjustment works and what it effects. They are passable at best, nothing more.
The facts are you have people in this thread who have had various shocks and can directly attest to the differences. The fact is that we know there are people out there who hook as well (and some better) than with QA1's. The facts are that most people do not understand how shocks work and just what they do and that leads to a lot of poor decisions. The fact is that if you want the car to hook and all, you don't put lowering springs on. Lowering springs, by design are shorter and stiffer to lessen body roll and weight transfer side to side. Funny thing is they do the same thing front to rear with the pitch too. I hate to shoot holes in your argument about why you think everything but QA1's suck, but "hooking" is either really not your true goal, or you don't know that lowering springs aren't meant for "hooking" Ever notice that drag springs are tall and soft??????
I might be crazy, but I kind of like my shocks to actually damp the spring and the mass of the car. If I wanted soft and uncontrolled I'd be looking to run old stock shocks, not paying big bucks for new ones that are soft and uncontrolled. Go figure.
As for AGX, I'd rate them above QA1's too, but not a hell of a lot higher. Just on this forum we've had two instances where the rear shock eye has broken off the damper itself. And that's not even getting into the way the adjustment works and what it effects. They are passable at best, nothing more.
