Those with SLP or Global West SFC's, get in here!
10-19-2007, 09:06 AM
#1
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Those with SLP or Global West SFC's, get in here! I've got a couple simple questions about both the SLP and Global West SFC's...
First off, does anyone have any installed pics of either SFC?
If so...defintely post them up
I know the Global West SFC's tuck up very well, how low do the SLP's hang?
Are the SLP's visible from the side of the car?
Those who have either brand SFC, can they also be welded to the pinch/body seam under the car?
First off, does anyone have any installed pics of either SFC?
If so...defintely post them up
I know the Global West SFC's tuck up very well, how low do the SLP's hang?
Are the SLP's visible from the side of the car?
Those who have either brand SFC, can they also be welded to the pinch/body seam under the car?
10-19-2007, 12:35 PM
#2
I'll address the SLP's ability to tuck...
From the side, you can easily see them, but since they are black, you can't really tell what they are if you didn't know these cars.
Then again, that is on my Camaro...your T/A might be able to hide them a little better due to your body being a little different. I have no pics to post up...sorry.
From the side, you can easily see them, but since they are black, you can't really tell what they are if you didn't know these cars.
Then again, that is on my Camaro...your T/A might be able to hide them a little better due to your body being a little different. I have no pics to post up...sorry.
10-19-2007, 01:33 PM
#3
Hello,
Any rear you just want Global West or SLP? We offer a nice varity of SFC's in both bolt in and weld in options. Please take a look at the link below and if you have any questions please ask.
http://www.umiperformance.com/produc...ategory_id=129
Thank you!
Ryan
Any rear you just want Global West or SLP? We offer a nice varity of SFC's in both bolt in and weld in options. Please take a look at the link below and if you have any questions please ask.
http://www.umiperformance.com/produc...ategory_id=129
Thank you!
Ryan
10-19-2007, 01:38 PM
#4
Launching!
I had Global West SFCs on the car for about five years. They tuck MUCH, MUCH tighter to the floor than the SLPs I have seen.
It was a major pain to cut the GWs off the car.
It was a major pain to cut the GWs off the car.
10-19-2007, 02:08 PM
#5
I ran SLP's for about 4 years. The tuck pretty well for a diamond style SFC. However, I never put on the weld-in's. Like Iron-head, it would have been a NIGHTMARE to get those suckers off if they were welded. I think i put them on 4 yrs ago, and to the day i took them off, i never hald a bolt get loose on me.....I guess that's what proper torquing and some loc-tite will get ya, haha
Personally, you can't go wrong with either, IMO
Personally, you can't go wrong with either, IMO
10-19-2007, 05:10 PM
#6
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What I'm looking for mostly are installed pics from underneath the car so I can see their exact mounting points, etc.
Hello,
Any rear you just want Global West or SLP? We offer a nice varity of SFC's in both bolt in and weld in options. Please take a look at the link below and if you have any questions please ask.
http://www.umiperformance.com/produc...ategory_id=129
Thank you!
Ryan
Any rear you just want Global West or SLP? We offer a nice varity of SFC's in both bolt in and weld in options. Please take a look at the link below and if you have any questions please ask.
http://www.umiperformance.com/produc...ategory_id=129
Thank you!
Ryan
I'm just doing my research right now...from what I hear, the SLP's and GW SFC's have GREAT mounting points in regards to fuction/tying in the unibody in the correct manner and aren't 'gimmicky' like some other SFC's and many other suspenion parts for these cars can be (not saying yours are at all).
Why did you cut them off the car???
I plan on installing whichever SFC's I get and never having a reason to remove them
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10-19-2007, 08:12 PM
#8
I'm just doing my research right now...from what I hear, the SLP's and GW SFC's have GREAT mounting points in regards to fuction/tying in the unibody in the correct manner and aren't 'gimmicky' like some other SFC's and many other suspenion parts for these cars can be
10-19-2007, 09:21 PM
#9
Launching!
Short story - I took them off to be ESP legal.
Long story - I put them on the car before anything else was done to it (and before I knew better). Wow. It was like night and day. Big improvement... or so I thought.
Guess what? Now, five years later with good shocks on the car, I CAN'T EVEN TELL THAT THEY'RE GONE.
Do they make the car stiffer? Sure.
Do you need them? Nope.
Are they necessary if the car is going to be driven hard? Nope.
Funny thing is, SFCs just became legal in ESP.
However, even with this newly legal status I never would have installed them knowing what I know now. If I had, I'd still take them off to get rid of the weight. They're just not necessary. You don't need 'em.
Once again... I race the car. I can't tell that they're gone and I've owned the car since new. Nobody else can tell they're gone either (when riding in or driving the car).
I know Sam has rehashed this many times but allow me to take some of the load since I've now experienced it firsthand.
Of course SFCs stiffen the structure, but their value is way, way, way overblown on 4th gen cars. Crawl under the car and take a look at those massive rockers. I should know, I've cut mine off. They're not a "must have".
Quality shocks make a MUCH, MUCH bigger difference in squeaks, shakes and rattles.
When you think about it, that good shocks are able to help all this makes a lot of sense.
The factory shocks are absolutely horrid. Too much compression damping and too little rebound. Anybody that would claim otherwise simply doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. The springs aren't terrible at all but they are a bit soft.
So what happens when the wheel encounters a high velocity event such as hittting a sharp bump? Well, the stiffly valved stock shocks never give the soft spring a chance to absorb the bump. The stock shock transfers that force directly to the body of the car. What happens next is the car rides like crap and, over time, develops rattles, squeaks and fender ripples.
SFCs can help this because, well, they obviously make the structure stronger. Problem with that is your suspension still sucks. The structure of the car is still getting pounded, the car still doesn't ride worth a crap and it still doesn't handle well because of the shocks.
The better shock valving found in a Koni or Bilstein (more rebound / actually less compression in most cases) does not allow nearly as much of the road forces to get into the body of the car. It also makes the car handle AND ride better because the valving better damps the spring motions.
Yes, the SFCs made a WORLD of difference when they were installed on my car 5 years ago. However, I still had the ridiculous factory shocks. Fast forward five years, 25K miles and probably 300 autocross runs. Now I take the connectors off and the car is scarcely any different but certainly waaaaay better than when the connectors were installed.
After all that abuse, my car squeaks, rattles and shakes LESS now with the SFCs off than it did before they were installed five years ago. Why? Did the car heal itself? What changed?
The shocks. Quality shocks make a bigger difference than SFCs.
Yes, I have some other stuff on the car, but most of that transmits more forces into the structure of the car not less. These parts should magnify the effects of removing the connectors but obviously does not.
With all that said, if you're deadset on SFCs, I really liked my GWs.
10-19-2007, 11:41 PM
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No idea about global west. BUT a great plus to the SLP's is y/pipe protection!! My XS LT's and Y are above the SFC's. I could care less if I drag on the SFC cuz it wont hurt anything.
My .02
My .02
10-19-2007, 11:42 PM
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That's what I thought too.
Short story - I took them off to be ESP legal.
Long story - I put them on the car before anything else was done to it (and before I knew better). Wow. It was like night and day. Big improvement... or so I thought.
Guess what? Now, five years later with good shocks on the car, I CAN'T EVEN TELL THAT THEY'RE GONE.
Do they make the car stiffer? Sure.
Do you need them? Nope.
Are they necessary if the car is going to be driven hard? Nope.
Short story - I took them off to be ESP legal.
Long story - I put them on the car before anything else was done to it (and before I knew better). Wow. It was like night and day. Big improvement... or so I thought.
Guess what? Now, five years later with good shocks on the car, I CAN'T EVEN TELL THAT THEY'RE GONE.
Do they make the car stiffer? Sure.
Do you need them? Nope.
Are they necessary if the car is going to be driven hard? Nope.
10-20-2007, 08:30 AM
#12
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(Modified your post to make this easier)
1. Funny thing is, SFCs just became legal in ESP.
2. Quality shocks make a MUCH, MUCH bigger difference in squeaks, shakes and rattles.
...The factory shocks are absolutely horrid.
3. Now I take the connectors off and the car is scarcely any different but certainly waaaaay better than when the connectors were installed.
1. Funny thing is, SFCs just became legal in ESP.
2. Quality shocks make a MUCH, MUCH bigger difference in squeaks, shakes and rattles.
...The factory shocks are absolutely horrid.
3. Now I take the connectors off and the car is scarcely any different but certainly waaaaay better than when the connectors were installed.
Where could I find the ESP rules as well as the other RR/AX sanctions, etc?
2. I definetly have done my research in doing the suspension on this car correctly. As you said, the stock Decarbons SUCK, which is why I'm running Koni DA's with Sam's springs
3. Your saying the car is waaaaay better now than when the connectors were installed in that the rest of the suspenion is better (Shocks/Springs) not necessarily that it's better because you removed the sfc's...correct?
10-20-2007, 11:01 AM
#13
Launching!
*EDIT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION*
Yes, so long as they meet the following criteria:
The '08 rule changes haven't been released in one tidy package yet. The new rule book is usually out very early in the year, maybe even late in the year before... I forget. Here's a link to the '07 rules - http://www.scca.org/documents/Solo%2...7SoloRules.pdf
That's correct. I'm not saying the car is better because I removed the SFCs. I'm saying that with the better shocks I can barely tell the SFCs are gone.
Once again....
Do they make the car stiffer? Sure.
Do you need them? Nope.
Are they necessary if the car is going to be driven hard? Nope.
Will quality shocks make a bigger difference? Yes.
FWIW My car was bought new and was used as a daily driver for six or seven years. I got some minor ripples in my fenders just from "enthusiastic" driving on crappy roads before I ever installed the SFCs. I installed the SFCs in part to make the car stiffer and in part to prevent more of them from forming.
Guess what? I got a couple more ripples in the fenders AFTER the SFCs were installed. This should have been my first clue I guess. No more appeared after I put better shocks on the car and started racing it every chance I get. Sometimes on very bumpy / rough lots and always on big sticky tires.
Why have no more ripples formed? The body structure is most certainly getting twisted and torqued waaaay more than it was as a daily driver right?
The shocks are mounted almost directly inboard of where my ripples formed. I know the stock shocks pound the structure of the car. The rear fenders basically ARE the structure of that area of the car. Do the math.
Could a drag only car benefit from SFCs? Probably. They also generally run floppy shocks. Go figure.
Yes, so long as they meet the following criteria:
Insert new section 15.2.E after 15.2.D and re-label subsequent sections of 15.2 accordingly:
“E Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (“SFCs”) are permitted with the following restrictions:
1. They must only connect previously unconnected boxed frame rails on unibody vehicles.
2. Each SFC must attach at no more than three points on the unibody (e.g. front, rear, and one point in between such as a seat mount brace or rocker box brace).
3. SFCs must be bolted or welded, but welding must be to the OE subframe stampings, not to the floorpan in between.
4. No cutting of OE subframes or floorpan stampings is permitted. Drilling is permitted for mounting bolts only.
5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment. No alteration to the OE components is permitted.
6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including but not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft loops) and may serve no other purpose.”
NOTE: This change affects Street Modified as well (see 16.1.G, which will be removed and superseded by the above).
“E Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (“SFCs”) are permitted with the following restrictions:
1. They must only connect previously unconnected boxed frame rails on unibody vehicles.
2. Each SFC must attach at no more than three points on the unibody (e.g. front, rear, and one point in between such as a seat mount brace or rocker box brace).
3. SFCs must be bolted or welded, but welding must be to the OE subframe stampings, not to the floorpan in between.
4. No cutting of OE subframes or floorpan stampings is permitted. Drilling is permitted for mounting bolts only.
5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment. No alteration to the OE components is permitted.
6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including but not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft loops) and may serve no other purpose.”
NOTE: This change affects Street Modified as well (see 16.1.G, which will be removed and superseded by the above).
Originally Posted by BLK02TA
Ya all those guys with the twisted rear quater panels couldn't have used SFC's..........riiight.
Once again....
Do they make the car stiffer? Sure.
Do you need them? Nope.
Are they necessary if the car is going to be driven hard? Nope.
Will quality shocks make a bigger difference? Yes.
FWIW My car was bought new and was used as a daily driver for six or seven years. I got some minor ripples in my fenders just from "enthusiastic" driving on crappy roads before I ever installed the SFCs. I installed the SFCs in part to make the car stiffer and in part to prevent more of them from forming.
Guess what? I got a couple more ripples in the fenders AFTER the SFCs were installed. This should have been my first clue I guess. No more appeared after I put better shocks on the car and started racing it every chance I get. Sometimes on very bumpy / rough lots and always on big sticky tires.
Why have no more ripples formed? The body structure is most certainly getting twisted and torqued waaaay more than it was as a daily driver right?
The shocks are mounted almost directly inboard of where my ripples formed. I know the stock shocks pound the structure of the car. The rear fenders basically ARE the structure of that area of the car. Do the math.
Could a drag only car benefit from SFCs? Probably. They also generally run floppy shocks. Go figure.
Last edited by Ironhead; 10-20-2007 at 11:25 AM.
