Spring rate show down
08-23-2008, 10:47 PM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Matthews, NC
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spring rate show down I tried searching and found everything but what I was looking for. I'm trying to set up my suspension to believe it or not take a turn. I know that having the solid rear is going to play hell but I'm gonna try to make it decent. I'm not trying to be an autocross champion I'm just tired of the slop. Right now it's stock '01 WS.6, bone stock and it handles like a boat, unless I'm going strait.
I am also working on loosing some sprung weight by loosing the back seat, replacing some of the glass with lighter material and other stuff to but this heffer on a diet to help produce a greater reaction from the suspension.
So far I have decided on:
All chrome molly
K-member
Upper and lower control arms
Tunnel brace with DSSL
3 Point subframes
Upper and lower Pan hard bar
LCAs
Torque arm
Strut tower bar
Poly bushings all around so it wont clunk from the I-bolts
Am i missing anything?
I was thinking QA1 shocks front and rear but after that is where it starts to get hairy.
What spring rate? I know I want them to be a rather aggressive rate to stiffen it up significantly but there are so many rates, drops and manufacturers. Ride height won't be that big of an issue because it won't be a DD. F@#$in gas prices. Progressive rates won't be that big of a deal either but I would like to avoid them.
I want feed back from people who are using there suspension for more that looks or drag racing. What are you using? What Shocks/struts? What springs(who makes 'em, what rate front and rear, progressive or not, ride height, sag issues?) What are you using it for?
Thanks in advance for the input.
I am also working on loosing some sprung weight by loosing the back seat, replacing some of the glass with lighter material and other stuff to but this heffer on a diet to help produce a greater reaction from the suspension.
So far I have decided on:
All chrome molly
K-member
Upper and lower control arms
Tunnel brace with DSSL
3 Point subframes
Upper and lower Pan hard bar
LCAs
Torque arm
Strut tower bar
Poly bushings all around so it wont clunk from the I-bolts
Am i missing anything?
I was thinking QA1 shocks front and rear but after that is where it starts to get hairy.
What spring rate? I know I want them to be a rather aggressive rate to stiffen it up significantly but there are so many rates, drops and manufacturers. Ride height won't be that big of an issue because it won't be a DD. F@#$in gas prices. Progressive rates won't be that big of a deal either but I would like to avoid them.
I want feed back from people who are using there suspension for more that looks or drag racing. What are you using? What Shocks/struts? What springs(who makes 'em, what rate front and rear, progressive or not, ride height, sag issues?) What are you using it for?
Thanks in advance for the input.
08-24-2008, 02:24 AM
#2
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (23)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Olmsted, OH
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So far nothing on the list will make the car handle significantly better. The chassis will be stiffer the weight will be a little bit lower with the chrome molly parts but not much due to the fact that you will be taking weigh out in some areas and putting some in other areas.
The beginning of a good suspension setup starts with shocks Koni's are the best period and you can use them in drag racing. Now you are spending a lot of cash on the list above so don't whine about the cost of the shocks they are well worth it. Second in the list will be Springs and Swaybars. Stano hollow bars and springs are a good choice. The springs are 550# linear fronts and 150# in the back this is a good balance and about as stiff as most people will want to go on a daily driver, they are also lighter. If you want to pick your own rates then you may want something like the ground control setup, they are harder to install but you can pick the spring rates that you want and you can adjust the ride height easily. I'm using this setup with 650# front and 175# rear linear springs. Something like that will most likely be to stiff for your application. The Strano swaybars are 35" front and 22" back they are also light due to the fact they are hollow. another choice is the Hotchkis front (the rear is a bit to big at 1" but for dragracing it might work well) If you need adjustability then use a hellwig adjustable 22" rear bar that will allow you to adjust the roll rate of the back that might be usefull in drag racing (set it softer for the street and stiffer for the track). Next you want to look at the panhard bar since the springs will lower the car you need and adjustable one. If you want the ultimate setup then get a watkin link set up this might help with launch consistency. Since you say this is mostly a street car you can skip on the rod ended components and go with polly bushings or go with Polly/rod combination (the best of both worlds). Lower rear control arms are next in the list, then torque arm. Note that if you opt for a shorter body mounted set up they tend to clunk on acceleration decceleration, my previous car had it and I hated it. Everything else in your list will be a matter of taste and budget but lower priority as they will have smaller impact on the ride quality and handling.
The beginning of a good suspension setup starts with shocks Koni's are the best period and you can use them in drag racing. Now you are spending a lot of cash on the list above so don't whine about the cost of the shocks they are well worth it. Second in the list will be Springs and Swaybars. Stano hollow bars and springs are a good choice. The springs are 550# linear fronts and 150# in the back this is a good balance and about as stiff as most people will want to go on a daily driver, they are also lighter. If you want to pick your own rates then you may want something like the ground control setup, they are harder to install but you can pick the spring rates that you want and you can adjust the ride height easily. I'm using this setup with 650# front and 175# rear linear springs. Something like that will most likely be to stiff for your application. The Strano swaybars are 35" front and 22" back they are also light due to the fact they are hollow. another choice is the Hotchkis front (the rear is a bit to big at 1" but for dragracing it might work well) If you need adjustability then use a hellwig adjustable 22" rear bar that will allow you to adjust the roll rate of the back that might be usefull in drag racing (set it softer for the street and stiffer for the track). Next you want to look at the panhard bar since the springs will lower the car you need and adjustable one. If you want the ultimate setup then get a watkin link set up this might help with launch consistency. Since you say this is mostly a street car you can skip on the rod ended components and go with polly bushings or go with Polly/rod combination (the best of both worlds). Lower rear control arms are next in the list, then torque arm. Note that if you opt for a shorter body mounted set up they tend to clunk on acceleration decceleration, my previous car had it and I hated it. Everything else in your list will be a matter of taste and budget but lower priority as they will have smaller impact on the ride quality and handling.
08-24-2008, 04:39 AM
#3
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Killer Bluebird on this one.
AFA the parts list you've created, it's actually a drag racing setup than one that's for corner carving.
I also notice you're from PA. Sam Strano's there, and here's a neat article from GM High Tech Performance magazine regarding his track/street car:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
Here's another GMHTP article with Strano modifying another dual duty car:
Part I: http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
Part II: http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
When one begins to modify their vehicle for performance and they're not readily familiar with their vehicle, it's important to go back to basics and remind themselves, "I'm modifying with a purpose and that purpose is performance."
AFA the parts list you've created, it's actually a drag racing setup than one that's for corner carving.
I also notice you're from PA. Sam Strano's there, and here's a neat article from GM High Tech Performance magazine regarding his track/street car:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
Here's another GMHTP article with Strano modifying another dual duty car:
Part I: http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
Part II: http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
When one begins to modify their vehicle for performance and they're not readily familiar with their vehicle, it's important to go back to basics and remind themselves, "I'm modifying with a purpose and that purpose is performance."
08-24-2008, 07:56 AM
#5
TECH Senior Member
Your looking for something like this:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...ID=0&ModelID=7
Read the first two posts, they know what they are talking about.
Don't bother looking at QA1's, they are dragshocks and will leave you with an overly stiff, jarring ride that floats and bounces.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=26
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...ID=0&ModelID=7
Read the first two posts, they know what they are talking about.
Don't bother looking at QA1's, they are dragshocks and will leave you with an overly stiff, jarring ride that floats and bounces.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=26
08-25-2008, 11:02 AM
#6
Yuck.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
08-25-2008, 11:05 AM
#7
To the original poster:
Springs aren't your issue. Damping is (and that the shocks). While they work together, a car with the better shocks will be the better driving car, even if it has softer springs.
Your ingredient list is frankly all wrong for what you want to do. And bearing in mind you don't want to be an autox champion, the car has no idea where it's being driven. A car tha works on an autox also works on the street--at least how I set them up. That's like saying you want a car that will runs 10's, but don't want to be a drag racing champion.....
Springs aren't your issue. Damping is (and that the shocks). While they work together, a car with the better shocks will be the better driving car, even if it has softer springs.
Your ingredient list is frankly all wrong for what you want to do. And bearing in mind you don't want to be an autox champion, the car has no idea where it's being driven. A car tha works on an autox also works on the street--at least how I set them up. That's like saying you want a car that will runs 10's, but don't want to be a drag racing champion.....
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
Trending Topics
08-26-2008, 02:31 PM
#8
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Matthews, NC
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the original poster:
Springs aren't your issue. Damping is (and that the shocks). While they work together, a car with the better shocks will be the better driving car, even if it has softer springs.
Your ingredient list is frankly all wrong for what you want to do. And bearing in mind you don't want to be an autox champion, the car has no idea where it's being driven. A car tha works on an autox also works on the street--at least how I set them up. That's like saying you want a car that will runs 10's, but don't want to be a drag racing champion.....
Springs aren't your issue. Damping is (and that the shocks). While they work together, a car with the better shocks will be the better driving car, even if it has softer springs.
Your ingredient list is frankly all wrong for what you want to do. And bearing in mind you don't want to be an autox champion, the car has no idea where it's being driven. A car tha works on an autox also works on the street--at least how I set them up. That's like saying you want a car that will runs 10's, but don't want to be a drag racing champion.....
I used to have an RSX type s that I had installed all of the aftermarket essentials to the suspension and had been tuning it for almost 4 years so I am used to a light car with a front engine front wheel drive with MAC strut in the front and independent suspension in the rear. Now I have a front engine rear wheel drive solid rear axle and a pan hard bar with SLA strut in the front. I'm stepping out of one field into another. This is the main reason for the "not trying to be champion" statement. I know how to make it go strait, just not hug the apex. I just need to be pointed in the right direction.
The main reason I made the list up top of parts I would like to upgrade was mainly they were the obvious things to me. This is why I am asking, I don't mind upgrading an item I just want to do the most important first.
I guess I am asking where should I begin and with what? As far as my ultimate goal I will have to get back to that after a good hard weekend at a track or a parking lot full of cones. Right now I just now my factory shocks have about had it and she feels like a boat. I want to upgrade but I want them to be things that will complement the set up later once I start to hone in on a target.
Another question: What shock valving do you prefer? I know what some of them are but I never learned what application they would be best for.
08-26-2008, 10:59 PM
#9
Teching In
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey does anybody know of a stock ride height stiffer spring? my problem is my SLP long tubes, they hang like 1.5 inchs lower then everything else under the car and i already have problems scraping everything,but i would like it to handle abit better. So... i was lookin into a stiffer spring and the stranco 35mm/22mm sway bar kit. i am currently running AGX shocks. i know there not the best but i got them for nothing from a buddy. free beers to those of you that help me
BOSS APPROVED!