Has Anyone Converted to a Short Front Spindle?
09-08-2008, 09:39 AM
#1
Has Anyone Converted to a Short Front Spindle? I'd like to know if there are any short spindles that will work on our cars in order to fit the upper balljoint inside the rim. Similar to the C5 and C6 design. Obviously you will replace the upper arm with a longer one and move it's pivot point lower.
I know guys have converted over to a strut suspension for drag racing use so maybe someone knows about this as well?
Here's what I'm talking about:
The reason for this is to get rid of the shock towers. Thanks.
I know guys have converted over to a strut suspension for drag racing use so maybe someone knows about this as well?
Here's what I'm talking about:
The reason for this is to get rid of the shock towers. Thanks.
Last edited by JasonWW; 11-09-2008 at 02:48 PM.
09-08-2008, 06:00 PM
#3
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I've seen it for the fox body guys. It converts the strut setup to a dual a-arm setup similar to what you are talking about. I've never seen it on an fbody though.
09-08-2008, 08:53 PM
#5
09-08-2008, 09:27 PM
#6
This is what I mean by eliminating the towers:
It's similar to a truck or a vehicle with an actual frame instead of a unibody. It may be possible to use the C5 spindle if I make a custom upper A-arm. I'm going to look into that as well.
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09-08-2008, 11:03 PM
#8
I think you need to find a spindle with the proper Ackerman built in or else one where you can fab your own steering mount.
09-09-2008, 04:50 PM
#9
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I would think that you would be able to drill the k-member mount holes all the way through and build off the top of that, adding all the necessary brackets and bracing. But I haven't really looked at it. If it's anything like the front frame rails on my thirdgen, then the metal is pretty shitty to start with. On that note, I would be VERY intersted in this setup for my thirdgen (I know it's a different suspension setup, but I'm just throwing it out there as this type of kit is more in line with the intended purpose of my third gen).
Someone needs to do this.
09-10-2008, 12:02 AM
#10
I think the best thing to do is to put the upper a-arm mounts on the top of the k-member. That way the entire front suspension is held together as a complete unit.
The front frame rails are basically made out of stamped sheet metal, maybe 16 gauge, but the factory did spot weld some reinforcement pieces to the inside walls.
Here is a quote from member John_D.
I modified his picture a bit.
Here is a frame rail cross section near the firewall.
I've already done a lot of research on the front structural design and have numerous dissection pics of these cars.
The front frame rails are basically made out of stamped sheet metal, maybe 16 gauge, but the factory did spot weld some reinforcement pieces to the inside walls.
Here is a quote from member John_D.
When there is nothing tieing the two frame rails together, they move pretty easily. My engine is out, and I cut off the upper and lower radiator supports for a radiator relocation project. I can grab the end of the frame rail and move it easily. But not up and down, and not side to side. It moves diagonally.
There is a brace that runs under the fender, from the firewall to the headlight. That brace keeps the rail from moving toward the headlight or away from it. But it doesn't do anything to prevent movement at a 90 degree angle from it. (see quickie ms-paint jpg below).
I would definitely not lift the car by the frame rails for an engine removal, with those supports gone. The k-member will be the only thing keeping the front of the rails from floating.
There is a brace that runs under the fender, from the firewall to the headlight. That brace keeps the rail from moving toward the headlight or away from it. But it doesn't do anything to prevent movement at a 90 degree angle from it. (see quickie ms-paint jpg below).
I would definitely not lift the car by the frame rails for an engine removal, with those supports gone. The k-member will be the only thing keeping the front of the rails from floating.
Here is a frame rail cross section near the firewall.
I've already done a lot of research on the front structural design and have numerous dissection pics of these cars.
Last edited by JasonWW; 09-10-2008 at 03:20 AM.
09-10-2008, 12:08 AM
#11
Sliced in front of the springs.
The way things look, the a-arm mounts would need to be right where the frame rails are.
You could:
1. Replace that section of the frame rail with 2x4 rectangular tubing, offset to the inside, and mount the arms to it.
Or
2. Add mounts on top of the k-member and keep them separate from the frame.
The way things look, the a-arm mounts would need to be right where the frame rails are.
You could:
1. Replace that section of the frame rail with 2x4 rectangular tubing, offset to the inside, and mount the arms to it.
Or
2. Add mounts on top of the k-member and keep them separate from the frame.
Last edited by JasonWW; 02-18-2011 at 12:15 PM.
09-10-2008, 12:50 AM
#12
This spindle has potential.
Its from the 67-69 F-body and there are several variations out on the market. There is a stock short version and an aftermarket tall version. I'm looking at the tall version. Notice it has a seperate steering arm and is available in a 2" drop version. Did I mention they're fairly cheap as well?
The one thing against it is that when compared to the 4th gen spindle, the drop is only about 1". Maybe that is OK?
Its from the 67-69 F-body and there are several variations out on the market. There is a stock short version and an aftermarket tall version. I'm looking at the tall version. Notice it has a seperate steering arm and is available in a 2" drop version. Did I mention they're fairly cheap as well?
The one thing against it is that when compared to the 4th gen spindle, the drop is only about 1". Maybe that is OK?
Last edited by JasonWW; 03-05-2011 at 05:34 AM.
09-10-2008, 01:15 AM
#13
Notice the upper A-arm mounts in this pic. Something like that can be welded to the top of the k-member.
These are older pics of mine and upon further review I believe the shock towers would move rearward AND toward the center of the car as this pic shows.
These are older pics of mine and upon further review I believe the shock towers would move rearward AND toward the center of the car as this pic shows.
Last edited by JasonWW; 09-10-2008 at 03:18 AM.
09-10-2008, 01:34 AM
#14
What I think may be necessary is to build a front sub frame and weld it into the unibody structure like in the pics below. The one difference being that both the A-arm mounts will be attached to the k-member instead of the frame.
Last edited by JasonWW; 02-18-2011 at 01:33 PM.
09-10-2008, 01:48 AM
#15
Just for reference, here are the 4th gen "frame rails".
My black car in the shop. Green shows the front "frame rails" and blue shows the main body "frame rails".
Since most folks don't know about the main body rails, here's a better view.
I love this pic from RagenZ28:
My black car in the shop. Green shows the front "frame rails" and blue shows the main body "frame rails".
Since most folks don't know about the main body rails, here's a better view.
I love this pic from RagenZ28:
Last edited by JasonWW; 09-10-2008 at 03:30 AM.
09-10-2008, 05:38 AM
#17
It won't be easy either. I figure you have to pull the engine/trans, support the car so the door gaps are good, than brace the k-member to the firewall and floor. Then cut away the towers and front frame rails. Then build your new frame rails to fit on top of the k-member and tuck into the floor area. Weld up both sides and then add any extra bracing it may need from top of firewall to front rails. Then you should be able to bolt K-member on and get to work on the upper arm mounting.
It's a lot of work. I don't know if I'm ready for that much.
Here's a real nice story on converting a unibody car to a full frame. They put the entire body in a jig to told it in place. There are some real amazing build ups posted online from this shop.
http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/ph...-firebird.html
Last edited by JasonWW; 02-18-2011 at 01:34 PM.
09-10-2008, 06:41 AM
#18
I just had a radical idea! Instead of a regular 4x4 tube frame, why not use 2 rails of 2x2? Lower one might be best for square tube and probably round tube for upper one. Here's the general idea. Look at the stiffness you'll get. You'll have plenty of room for the upper A-arm mounts.
Last edited by JasonWW; 03-05-2011 at 05:36 AM.
09-10-2008, 03:27 PM
#19
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Maybe I'm missing something, why exactly are you wanting to do this? I'm not sure I see what is to be gained by such a venture... other than being really cool.