Camber Tire: Reinventing the wheel
09-17-2010, 03:36 PM
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Camber Tire: Reinventing the wheel http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/...ing-the-wheel/
While i have a general knowledge about tires, I’m far from being an expert. I ran across this article/video, and I am curious to hear your thoughts and opinions on the subject.
While i have a general knowledge about tires, I’m far from being an expert. I ran across this article/video, and I am curious to hear your thoughts and opinions on the subject.
09-17-2010, 05:39 PM
#2
It doesn't make sense to me for the following reason...
You run negative camber so that when the car leans in a corner the outside tire is more likely to be perpendicular to the road surface, which means that you have the maximum sized contact patch.
With this tire, he has built the 'camber' into the tire instead of the suspension geometry. My mental model may be wrong, but if the suspension design is equal then this design will not keep the contact patch constant in the corner, because as the car rolls it would have a tendency to lift the inboard section of the outside tire, which would reduce the contact patch and grip.
I don't have a thorough knowledge of his tire's construction, so maybe there is a piece of the puzzle I am missing. But if it is simply a tire with unequal sidewalls, I don't see how there would be much benefit.
A few other thoughts: really if your suspension design is decent you should be able to keep the tire somewhat flat against the surface through suspension travel. This isn't always the case due to cost. The other thing is that they mention toe in... but I don't think there are many street cars that run much toe in if any. Most random customers wouldn't care for the increased inner tread tire wear.
You run negative camber so that when the car leans in a corner the outside tire is more likely to be perpendicular to the road surface, which means that you have the maximum sized contact patch.
With this tire, he has built the 'camber' into the tire instead of the suspension geometry. My mental model may be wrong, but if the suspension design is equal then this design will not keep the contact patch constant in the corner, because as the car rolls it would have a tendency to lift the inboard section of the outside tire, which would reduce the contact patch and grip.
I don't have a thorough knowledge of his tire's construction, so maybe there is a piece of the puzzle I am missing. But if it is simply a tire with unequal sidewalls, I don't see how there would be much benefit.
A few other thoughts: really if your suspension design is decent you should be able to keep the tire somewhat flat against the surface through suspension travel. This isn't always the case due to cost. The other thing is that they mention toe in... but I don't think there are many street cars that run much toe in if any. Most random customers wouldn't care for the increased inner tread tire wear.
Last edited by HAZ-Matt; 09-17-2010 at 05:59 PM.
09-17-2010, 05:55 PM
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Not a bad idea. I'd like to see how it handles. Plus the tires would last longer because the WHOLE tire would get equal wear instead of just the inside tread.
The guy is completely crazy to think that the gov't might make them mandatory because they're more predictable. How the hell would you run camber tires on a solid axle? I guess you could, but then it'd be un-predictable because it'd be the opposite of regular tires on a negative camber suspension.
The guy is completely crazy to think that the gov't might make them mandatory because they're more predictable. How the hell would you run camber tires on a solid axle? I guess you could, but then it'd be un-predictable because it'd be the opposite of regular tires on a negative camber suspension.
09-17-2010, 05:57 PM
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[QUOTE=HAZ-Matt;13878279]With this tire, he has built the 'camber' into the tire instead of the suspension geometry. My mental model me be wrong, but if the suspension design is equal then this design will not keep the contact patch constant in the corner, because as the car rolls it would have a tendency to lift the inboard section of the outside tire, which would reduce the contact patch and grip.QUOTE]
^^^ This is accurate. How many people that own "performance cars" actually drive hard enough to really need the camber?
^^^ This is accurate. How many people that own "performance cars" actually drive hard enough to really need the camber?
09-17-2010, 07:46 PM
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if I understood that right you get the same effect as you would if you actually had 2* of camber adjusted into your suspension.just without the uneven wear???
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09-17-2010, 09:29 PM
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There are cars that naturally tend to run a negative camber. I can't tell you off the top of my head but my manager always talks about them. Nitto Neo gens are designed for cars like this.
09-17-2010, 11:18 PM
#12
It doesn't make sense to me for the following reason...
You run negative camber so that when the car leans in a corner the outside tire is more likely to be perpendicular to the road surface, which means that you have the maximum sized contact patch.
With this tire, he has built the 'camber' into the tire instead of the suspension geometry. My mental model may be wrong, but if the suspension design is equal then this design will not keep the contact patch constant in the corner, because as the car rolls it would have a tendency to lift the inboard section of the outside tire, which would reduce the contact patch and grip.
I don't have a thorough knowledge of his tire's construction, so maybe there is a piece of the puzzle I am missing. But if it is simply a tire with unequal sidewalls, I don't see how there would be much benefit.
A few other thoughts: really if your suspension design is decent you should be able to keep the tire somewhat flat against the surface through suspension travel. This isn't always the case due to cost. The other thing is that they mention toe in... but I don't think there are many street cars that run much toe in if any. Most random customers wouldn't care for the increased inner tread tire wear.
You run negative camber so that when the car leans in a corner the outside tire is more likely to be perpendicular to the road surface, which means that you have the maximum sized contact patch.
With this tire, he has built the 'camber' into the tire instead of the suspension geometry. My mental model may be wrong, but if the suspension design is equal then this design will not keep the contact patch constant in the corner, because as the car rolls it would have a tendency to lift the inboard section of the outside tire, which would reduce the contact patch and grip.
I don't have a thorough knowledge of his tire's construction, so maybe there is a piece of the puzzle I am missing. But if it is simply a tire with unequal sidewalls, I don't see how there would be much benefit.
A few other thoughts: really if your suspension design is decent you should be able to keep the tire somewhat flat against the surface through suspension travel. This isn't always the case due to cost. The other thing is that they mention toe in... but I don't think there are many street cars that run much toe in if any. Most random customers wouldn't care for the increased inner tread tire wear.
I haven't given it a lot of thought ... but some random thoughts do come to mind.
One of the negative effects of a heavily camber front end is the los of contact patch under braking. This could solve that.
I bet the "negative camber tire" is more for NASCAR style cars which have a significant sidewall. On our cars ... not so much.
A negative cambered solid rear axle ... hmmmmm.
09-18-2010, 12:23 PM
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With the camber tire, you'll still have to have a cambered suspension. If you have a solid rear axle, you'll have the contact patch as having 2* of camber.
Mainly european cars have camber. BMWs, Mercedes, Audi, VW, etc...
And 2* is a LOT of camber. If you have a car with 2* as spec, and it has 3* of camber, the suspension is FUCKED up.
Mainly european cars have camber. BMWs, Mercedes, Audi, VW, etc...
And 2* is a LOT of camber. If you have a car with 2* as spec, and it has 3* of camber, the suspension is FUCKED up.
