AGRV8D

iTrader: (19)

Which cars from the "old school" power wars ran 12's or better from the factory... im pretty sure there are a handful of them, such as select hemi mopars etc... now i am talking about STOCK/FACTORY here not upgraded anything... my boss is a nascar guru and says 90 % of the muscle back then ran 12's or better...

Lets get some older people in here who grew up in that generation for some factual info

Please Discuss

5w20

iTrader: (21)

IMO i dont think many, especially with the tires they came equiped with then

Pwebbz28

iTrader: (31)

Although not a muscle car, the ZL-1 camaro was capable of 10's i believe

nukeemall454

yeah all the yenko(Chevelle, Nova, Camaro) were pretty quick i believe with the tiny tires they came with. I dont remember the exact number but belive the chevelle and the camaro would hit 12.9s. and im pretty sure the 70 ls6 chevelle with some sticky tires could break twelves

crAzy95Z28

iTrader: (3)

i call BS on that. Maybe mid low 14's mid `13's

LS1Aggie09

iTrader: (25)

my impression was low 13's was considered good and high 12's was damn good, even for the LS6 back then

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

Ifyou are talking about the cars you could walk into a dealership and buy, not the super expensive, exotic, and never seen on the street cars such as the Motion, Yenko, and COPO cars then the answer is almost none of them. The cars were too heavy and the tires were crap. Even my 70 HemiCuda wouldn't run 12's stock. My 68 SS396 Chevelle only ran 15's stock. My 67 GTX was good for very high 13's. Probably 95% of the muscle cars at the time were 14 second cars or slower. Only a handful were capable of running 13's stock. With a few simple mods and slicks we were able to get a few of them in the 12's and still be street cars. Cars with automatic transmissions were much slower than the 4-speed cars. You sat high in the cars back then. The shifters were normally about 18" tall with throws of up to 10" between the gears. Surprisingly most of the cars were sold without positraction rearends. The engines in almost all the cars were large and cammed for torque. The shift point on my 440 375 hp GTX was only 5000 rpm. With tons of torque and very narrow, rock hard tires trying to get off the line was really tricky. You could spin the tires at almost any speed with a simple downshift. The suspensions were really soft so the cars twisted during hard acceleration. A straight line launch was almost impossible. They were a handful to drive but that is what made them so much fun. My present Camaro is much faster than those cars but isn't even half as much fun to drive. Tell your boss he is full of crap.

AGRV8D

iTrader: (19)

he is monitoring this thread, and i will not tell im he is full of anything..... but you guys can feel free to say it

AGRV8D

iTrader: (19)

so any oldschoolers in here yet?

LPTXZ28

iTrader: (18)

growing up my dad had a 66' vette coupe 427/425hp stock car. 4spd, 4.11's side pipes you get the picture. I was with him several times @ hrp and it ran low 13's every time.

BigBronco

iTrader: (2)

Only one that was not the ultra expensive that on a tire could nearly cut a 12.X is a LS6 Chevelle (454 BBC) with a 4 speed.

2 SLOW

The yenko/copo camaros and corvettes would run 11's with headers and slicks. So would quite a few other special edition models with slicks being necessary.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

The majority of 60s-70s musclecars were mid-high 14 second cars. Only a handful ran 12s, those were the lightweight big block cars that were built for drag racing.

A lot of people blame the crappy tires, but even on slicks most of these popular cars barely squeaked into the 13s. Mid-high 13s were considered fast back then.

Gold Z's reply above pretty much nailed it. The "old schoolers" who are convinced that their musclecars back in the day were faster would get rudely stomped by today's cars. Even family sedans with V6s run quicker today.

Elite_Hot_Rod

Uhm GoldZ is an old schooler. I think the only stock production car I can remember even getting close to running a 12 was a 70 Buick GS stage 3 455.

Pat7272

The 1968 Super Stock Hemi Plymouth Barracudas and Dodge Darts werent messing around, but they arent even in the same category your average off the showroom floor musclecar.

1320FEVER

iTrader: (9)

90% or better is definitely not accurate. Try 5%.

The 1964 Dodge Hemi was about the fastest "cheap" car made:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/define...e-426-hemi.htm

It ran mid 11s with slicks.

The Shelby Cobra ran mid 10s, but definitely not cheap. Other that that, you were doing good to get a 13 back then.

BAD2000TA

iTrader: (6)

The term, "Not Legal for Street Use" comes to mind. Although I'm a huge Mopar fan (first car was a 1970 Challenger R/T), the '68 Hemi Darts and Cudas were factory prepared cars with one function in mind: winning the Super Stock class in automatic and four speed. They are still winning SS/A today. But, they can't be considered typical musclecars that anyone could go buy. They were racecars, with lightweight parts, Race Hemi power, etc. The same could be said for the COPO 427 Camaros. Very few were made and generally not available to John Q. Public.

As mentioned before, most musclecars of the day ran mid-to-low 14 second times. There were the special cars that ran mid-to-low 13 seconds, but even LS6 Chevelles and HemiCuda's and Road Runners didn't run 12's completely stock. Slicks and headers, sure. But, that's cheating. Take a look at the Pure Stock drag series and you'll see the majority of the cars running what they ran new. Of course, that series has it's share of ringers, too.

BAD2000TA

iTrader: (6)

1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 is a mid-low 13 second car stock. The Stage 2 package was an over the counter dealer option. There wasn't a Stage 3 package.

SS SLP2

iTrader: (8)

"Lets get some older people in here who grew up in that generation "--
I suppose I fit this gap (I am medcare + 2 3/4 years)
(quote)the controversy peaked in 1984 when Muscle car magazine published the now famous list based on tests in four major magazines ::car & driver, moter trend, car life and road test.

(1) 1966 427 cobra 12:20/118
(2)1966 427 corvette 12:80/113
and no more were found to run in the 12'
source= http://www.powerblocktv.com/50fastest.html

a differant list shows
(1)1997 VIPER GTS 12.05/116
(2)1966 427 COBRA 12.20/118
(3) 1990ZR1 CORVETTE 12.8/113
(4)1996 427 CORVETTE 12.8/112
(5) 1969 440/6 BBL ROAD RUNNER129./111
and none more
source:http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html

and 1 more list
(1) 1966 427 COBRA 12.20/118
(2) 1966 427 CORVETTE 12.8/112
(3) 1969 440/6 BBL ROAD RUNNER 12.9/111
and none other
source: MUSCLE CAR REVIEW JULY 2000

hope the above info will stop/start the arugemts
my .02' Johnny

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately you couldn't believe what you read in the magazines back then because the factories knew that a favorable article showing their car turning some great times would boost the sales of that vehicle. So the factories kept giving the magazines cars to test which were not representative of the car you could buy off the showroom. The factories tweaked the cars with balanced and blueprinted engines, non stock cams, and such things as that. Even the car mags acknowledged this.
As for the cars on the lists above, the 69 440 6 pack Road Runner is a perfect example of a tweaked car from the factory. I had several friends who had that same combo and all were high 13 second cars. I also had friends with 66 427 Vettes with various forms of the 427 engine and none could even comeclose to a 12 second et. Like I said in my original post, even my 70 HemiCuda wouldn't run but high 13's stock. After we set it up to run SS/DA it would run consistant 10.3's but that could hardly be considered stock. Probably the two fastest stock cars at the time were the 440 6 pack cars and the 455 Stage one Buicks. Stage 2 was package which was not available on the car from the factory but was bought from the dealer and included a cam swap among other things so it hardly qualifies as a stock car. If you want to talk about changing cams and such, my 67 GTX 4-speed ran high 13's stock but when we put in the factory cam upgrade and put two AFB carbs on it with recapped slicks it ran 12.7's.