fasttimes1

iTrader: (29)

I am installing my 12 Bolt/Wilwood setup and decided to re-do my brake lines. I am using J&M stainless steel flex hoses from the chasis to the rear housing and Wilwood stainless steel flex hoses from the axle to calipers. For the hard lines I went with the stainless steel as well.

The bending was a breeze, but I am running into problems with flaring the tubing into a bubble flare (off the shlf tool definitely can't do it). I have tried to get 2 hydraulic shops around here to do the flares for me, but the both said they don't guarantee the will not ruin my tubing. Both shops recommended to just do away with the bubble flares and go to a standard 45/37 degree flare with adapters. My problem here is finding the both of the right size brake line adapters to fit the 2 hoses going to the chasis (each hose a different size); they would have to be a bubble flare on one end to properly mate up with the type of fitting pre-installed on the hoses. Suggestions here would be appreciated.

I was also hoping someone can give a little info on the applications of a 45 degree vs. a 37 degree flare. If I do go this route rather than attempting to do the bubble flare, which would I use here? I have done some google searches, but got 3 articles with different info: there are 3 main types of flares...there are 4 main types of flares...there are 5 main types of flares...that is kind of how my search for info went. I was hoping someone on here has some personal experience they could share on this issue.

Thanks

MikeGyver

iTrader: (5)

37° holds higher pressure. not much help, i know.

dpd069

iTrader: (1)

I've always plumbed mine in AN 37 degree. This is the mil spec based on the old Army/Navy (thus 'AN') joint standards that commonly come in blue or red anodized aluminum, although they are available in steel too.

Get yourself a Parker Rolo-flare tool from Aircraft Spruce,- they are a little spendy but a nice tool. Aircraft Spruce has pretty reasonable prices on AN fittings too, but you'll need to find adapters elsewhere unless it is pipe to AN

AN is the same as JIC except for the thread form and classification of the threads. For all intents and purposes they are interchangable. JIC is basically the industrial version of the AN spec flare with slighly less rigerous control over the thread configuation and materials used. Any hydraulic hose supply store will have JIC fittings. You can order them from Discount Hydraulic Hose too off the web.

I make most of my brake lines from bubble flare stuff I buy at the local auto parts store (stainless is a waste of money in Arizona weather). I cut the bubble flares off and use the tube to flare to AN 37 degree

I cut the tube with a die grinder, never one of those things plumbers use to cut copper tube.

Square up the end of the tube. I use a belt sander where I can hold the tube to get a perfect 90.

Deburr the inside of the tube with a countersink (or a drill bit if you are desperate)

Debur the outside of the tube on the sander after you trued it or you can use a fine tooth file too.

Put the tube in the Rolo-flare and go to town, but be sure you put the nut and the ferrule on first. I always put a drop of motor oil on the part of the flaring tool that meets the tube to keep wear of the tool down and produce a nice sealing surface.

I try to get as big a flare on it as I can and still get the nut to go over the flair so I maximize the sealing area. If you are doing stainless tube, you can't push it quite so far because sometimes the end of the flare cracks and you have to cut it off and start over. Whatever material you use, give it a good visual before installing it.

I generally don't have any problems with leaks, but when I do it is usually a burr on the male fitting. Keep a cover on all fittings until you are ready to install them and you'll minimize the potential for leaks or seeping. Don't overtighten the fittings, especially if they are aluminum because you can break them. Tighten down so it won't leak then just a little more.

There ya go - plumbing 101

fasttimes1

iTrader: (29)

Thanks for the responses. I found this link as well: http://www.dimebank.com/BrakePlumbing.html

37 degree flare sound likes the way to go here. My issue right now is finding out what thread size/type the chasis brake hoses are. I need a male/male adapter for each line to mend the -3 an on the hard line to these hoses. Does anyone by any chance know what sizes the 2 fittings going into the hoses are?

dpd069

iTrader: (1)

My Wilwoods are 1/8" pipe on the caliper side and I used aluminum pipe to AN-3 male male fittings to get out to the AN-3

If you know the model of the Willwoods you have, they have pretty complete engineering drawings posted on their website

fasttimes1

iTrader: (29)

Well I have the ss flex hoses going to the caliper set up already. Using a male/male -3 an bulkhead fitting to mate the hard line to those hoses on the ends.

The adapters Im having trouble finding are the one to connect the hard lines (-3 an) to the hoses going to the chasis (at the center, top of the rear end housing). GM uses 2 different thread sizes/types here, but Im not sure what they are.

vjjack04

I saw this old thread, which answers my question as well - but if I can restart this discussion...do you use the regular mild steel and simple cut the flares off, added the 37 degree tube fitting and nut the same as if you were doing stainless? And you have no problems. I am doing the same AN fitting set up and have stainless but the flares are not very prenounced so I figured I could just go with the regular steel. It flares very easily.

TurboS10

iTrader: (12)

steel line isn't rated for brake line pressure when done with a single 37 deg flare.
That's why old oem is double flare. (inverted)
You can get the inverted flare parts at auto parts store also.
Just need the correct flaring tool.

SS, is rated for brake pressure with single flare. Just need to make sure you get seamless tubing in either case.

for stuff that won't be seen (if you care) and you don't mind the little bit of extra weight.
Go to your Aeroquip dealer and get versa flare fittings in the needed size.
No flaring needed with them.