Learning how to weld
07-27-2005, 10:44 PM
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Learning how to weld I have been interested in cars for a few years now and have jsut begun to start working on them myself and would love to learn how to weld. My question is where or how did you learn to weld? where should I go to try and learn to weld?
I am a college student so I dont have all of the time and money in the world.
Thanks
James
I am a college student so I dont have all of the time and money in the world.
Thanks
James
07-28-2005, 08:50 AM
#3
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Check with your university, college, and local community colleges. Many of them have courses in welding for fairly low money and little time. I myself took one at Virginia Tech while I was there. Was a 1 credit class, met 1 day a week, and the lab fee was under $100. Taught all of the processes, gas, stick, MIG, and TIG (which I opted not to learn at the time and have kicked myself for ever since).
You can do the buy one and learn for yourself method, but it is nice to have professional guidance in what you're doing, and what to look for in a good weld.
Also, you might find that the welder you bought and the welder you want are decidedly different. You may find that you want to save a bit more money for a 200 amp 220V MIG instead of going for a cheap 85 amp MIG or and even cheaper 225Amp Stick. Education in this area is a good thing.
Just my $0.02, take it for what its worth.
'Dreamin'
You can do the buy one and learn for yourself method, but it is nice to have professional guidance in what you're doing, and what to look for in a good weld.
Also, you might find that the welder you bought and the welder you want are decidedly different. You may find that you want to save a bit more money for a 200 amp 220V MIG instead of going for a cheap 85 amp MIG or and even cheaper 225Amp Stick. Education in this area is a good thing.
Just my $0.02, take it for what its worth.
'Dreamin'
07-28-2005, 09:47 AM
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Lots of community colleges will have these classes.
I "learned" myself by just playing around but the
quality of my work, shows it. Lot of weld quality
has to do with metallurgy, pre/post-heat, rod or
wire (and gas if applicable) selection which you
will not figure out for yourself, making sparks in the
shed. If you're really motivated to get good at it I
would go get the schoolin'.
I "learned" myself by just playing around but the
quality of my work, shows it. Lot of weld quality
has to do with metallurgy, pre/post-heat, rod or
wire (and gas if applicable) selection which you
will not figure out for yourself, making sparks in the
shed. If you're really motivated to get good at it I
would go get the schoolin'.
07-28-2005, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmyblue
Lots of community colleges will have these classes.
I "learned" myself by just playing around but the
quality of my work, shows it. Lot of weld quality
has to do with metallurgy, pre/post-heat, rod or
wire (and gas if applicable) selection which you
will not figure out for yourself, making sparks in the
shed. If you're really motivated to get good at it I
would go get the schoolin'.
I "learned" myself by just playing around but the
quality of my work, shows it. Lot of weld quality
has to do with metallurgy, pre/post-heat, rod or
wire (and gas if applicable) selection which you
will not figure out for yourself, making sparks in the
shed. If you're really motivated to get good at it I
would go get the schoolin'.
but if you're just going to be doing sheet metal or accessory brackets or exhaust systems you could just get a mig and find someone who knows the basics to show you the basics.....anything beyond that and i would leave it to the professionals or take some classes....
08-02-2005, 11:20 AM
#7
I took three welding classes in High school. Unless you know some one that knows what they are doing I would say toke a class. The instructor will make you break the weld so you can see how well they are penetrating and you will have access to multiply welding processes like tig, stick and oxy fuel welding and brazing.
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08-02-2005, 03:08 PM
#8
Originally Posted by JustDreamin
Check with your university, college, and local community colleges. Many of them have courses in welding for fairly low money and little time. I myself took one at Virginia Tech while I was there. Was a 1 credit class, met 1 day a week, and the lab fee was under $100. Taught all of the processes, gas, stick, MIG, and TIG (which I opted not to learn at the time and have kicked myself for ever since).
You can do the buy one and learn for yourself method, but it is nice to have professional guidance in what you're doing, and what to look for in a good weld.
Also, you might find that the welder you bought and the welder you want are decidedly different. You may find that you want to save a bit more money for a 200 amp 220V MIG instead of going for a cheap 85 amp MIG or and even cheaper 225Amp Stick. Education in this area is a good thing.
Just my $0.02, take it for what its worth.
'Dreamin'
You can do the buy one and learn for yourself method, but it is nice to have professional guidance in what you're doing, and what to look for in a good weld.
Also, you might find that the welder you bought and the welder you want are decidedly different. You may find that you want to save a bit more money for a 200 amp 220V MIG instead of going for a cheap 85 amp MIG or and even cheaper 225Amp Stick. Education in this area is a good thing.
Just my $0.02, take it for what its worth.
'Dreamin'
I started with oxy/acetylene when I was 13 (learned from a guy who was a certified aircraft welder......this guy could gas weld two aluminum beer cans together
) and did that constantly till I was 16 when I got a MIG, TIG, and Plasma.......wouldn't do it any other way.......gas welding is 5000000000000000000000000000 times harder than electric but it teaches you 50000000000000000000000000000000 times more stuff (like don't put your arm in front of the flame to grab a rod
) and when you do move to electric you are a better welder for it.......(every now and then I go back and try to weld something with gas and I can't believe how "lazy" I have become...... )....gas is the strongest welds
TIG is the nicest welds
MIG is the fastest
Last edited by 2001CamaroGuy; 08-02-2005 at 03:17 PM.
08-04-2005, 10:46 AM
#9
Lots of good info here from experienced weldors: http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/....php?forumid=4
08-04-2005, 01:46 PM
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welding I also wanted to learn how to weld. I basically went down to a muffler shop and talked with a muffler guy for a little bit to try and steal some general knowledge about welding. I then went to home depot and bought a Mig welder for about $250.... read the instructions and went to Barnes and nobles bookstore and bought a few "HOw To weld" books... found some scraps and practiced on them...... my first weld turned out very shitty and would not hold under pressure...I practiced everyday until I improved my welds. welding just takes finnesse, you get better and better everyday. Just get some books and talk to muffler guys.. you'll learn in no time.
08-04-2005, 08:13 PM
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My dad sent me to a welding school just out of high school. We learned gas and stick, and had to weld up coupons for testing. That took about six weeks. I welded for a year at Westinghouse in KC on the BIG transformers and did shop welding. Learned how to put out the fires I started there...
I went to another school for about eight weeks after that. I learned aluminum and TIG there. Then I welded for about six months putting utility bodies on truck frames in KC KS.
Then I got a job in the Air Force that I didn't get dirty at for about 20 yrs.
Community colleges are a great place that don't cost an extreme amount. Reference books can teach you a lot, but there's nothing like time under the hood to make it all come together.
I went to another school for about eight weeks after that. I learned aluminum and TIG there. Then I welded for about six months putting utility bodies on truck frames in KC KS.
Then I got a job in the Air Force that I didn't get dirty at for about 20 yrs.
Community colleges are a great place that don't cost an extreme amount. Reference books can teach you a lot, but there's nothing like time under the hood to make it all come together.
08-18-2005, 06:17 PM
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what kinda welders would you suggest to buy.. like part numbers please. It will only be used to learn with and maybe on my exaust if i am decent.
Edit: And can someone tell me the differences between tig, mig arc and all the other welds.. Or tell me where to look...
I am really interested in all this but dont know where to begin and i dont have the time for classes just yet.
Edit: And can someone tell me the differences between tig, mig arc and all the other welds.. Or tell me where to look...
I am really interested in all this but dont know where to begin and i dont have the time for classes just yet.
Last edited by FirebirdCam; 08-18-2005 at 06:25 PM.
08-18-2005, 07:57 PM
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It's taken me 20 yrs to get around to getting another welder. I got mine at a local farm store (Tractor Supply). It has provisions for gas but I haven't done enough welding to where it matters.
-Gas welding uses a gas torch (oxy & acetylene) and a filler rod.
-Stick welding uses a stick in a clamp ("stinger")
-Mig welding uses a roll of thin wire (.025?) as the consumable
-Tig welding is a lot like gas welding except you use a little electric arc instead of a gas tip
Gas isn't used at home much any more. Expensive gasses and lots of heat to contend with
Tig welders are kind of expensive, and making a pretty weld takes a lot of practice. Gas welding is a good trainer.
Stick welding is good for almost anything but chipping the slag off the weld is a pain and if you don't get it all it can compromise your weld.
Most people use mig welders in home shops. There isn't any slag to chip off, welders are pretty reasonable ($250-500), and you can make pretty welds with practice. Using gas with your mig is an option...it makes welds pretty and you can do more things with it. But, I use flux-core wire for the little welding I do. It spatters a bit, and some of the spatters won't come off without grinding, but it's easy.
American Welding Society
Welding.Com
Welding Job Descriptions from US Dept Labor
Lincoln Electric Information Database
That ought to get you a little better information...
-Gas welding uses a gas torch (oxy & acetylene) and a filler rod.
-Stick welding uses a stick in a clamp ("stinger")
-Mig welding uses a roll of thin wire (.025?) as the consumable
-Tig welding is a lot like gas welding except you use a little electric arc instead of a gas tip
Gas isn't used at home much any more. Expensive gasses and lots of heat to contend with
Tig welders are kind of expensive, and making a pretty weld takes a lot of practice. Gas welding is a good trainer.
Stick welding is good for almost anything but chipping the slag off the weld is a pain and if you don't get it all it can compromise your weld.
Most people use mig welders in home shops. There isn't any slag to chip off, welders are pretty reasonable ($250-500), and you can make pretty welds with practice. Using gas with your mig is an option...it makes welds pretty and you can do more things with it. But, I use flux-core wire for the little welding I do. It spatters a bit, and some of the spatters won't come off without grinding, but it's easy.
American Welding Society
Welding.Com
Welding Job Descriptions from US Dept Labor
Lincoln Electric Information Database
That ought to get you a little better information...
08-19-2005, 06:12 PM
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Adding a couple things....someone can correct me if I make an error.
Arc
A big ground clamp goes on the part to complete the electrical circuit. The positive clamp holds the weld rod (usually flux coated). Bounce the rod on the part to start the arc. The flux coating protects the weld during the initial cool-down from molten metal by being coverted to a gas and it leaves a glass like residue that must be chipped off with a slag hammer. Welding on top of slag in a second pass makes a weak brittle weld so clean it all off.
Why protect the weld, like many chemical reactions, metals oxidize (rust, contaminate etc.) better when hot. At molten temperatures steel will badly corrode and leave a crappy weld unless protected from oxygen initially.
MIG (Metal Inert Gas) aka MGAW (Metal-Gas Arc Welding)
Still uses the ground clamp like Arc welding. A spool of wire feeds out through the hand grip and arcs on the work piece. The sheath flows an inert gas (Argon, carbon dioxide, others) over the arc to displace the oxygen during the critical initial cooling of the weld. This method leaves no slag so multi-pass welding is much easier and consistent. This is also the method used by most robotic welding, like car doors and bodies where spot welding is not used. The power supply is an AC transformer operating at normal wall plug frequency (60 Hz in North America). This low frequency gives the arc a characteristic buzzing popping noise.
TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas)
Combines the above 2 methods. You basically hold an electric torch with a tungsten electrode and feed wire in manually with your other hand. Tungsten erodes very slowly under the arc. The inert gas flows out of the torch as in MIG to produce clean welds. The power supply is much more specialized and very high frequency. The arc is silent.
In all of the above there are variations in applied voltage, wire feed rate, gas type, and polarity of the arc for various welding conditions. For welding steel on your car you cannot legally use a torch since new cars use a HSLA steel (High Strength Low Alloy) material which is basically thinner and tempered compared to old cars (70's and older). The temperature of a torch is much lower than the electric methods and ruins much more area of the steel by overheating it an ruining the temper. Arc, MIG, and TIG melt the steel faster and the temper ruined area (aka the heat affected zone) is much smaller.
In my case I own a small Hobart MIG welder (120 A output) that I used on a restoration I did, I never fussed with anything other than wire speed and power settings. Do not buy one of those small stick welders unless it can be converted to use gas too, they are a cross between an arc welder and a MIG without the benefits of either other than price. Buy a MIG for sheet metal work on a car or a TIG if you have the bucks. Buy an arc welder for doing the big stuff since a large MIG/TIG is very expensive.
Arc
A big ground clamp goes on the part to complete the electrical circuit. The positive clamp holds the weld rod (usually flux coated). Bounce the rod on the part to start the arc. The flux coating protects the weld during the initial cool-down from molten metal by being coverted to a gas and it leaves a glass like residue that must be chipped off with a slag hammer. Welding on top of slag in a second pass makes a weak brittle weld so clean it all off.
Why protect the weld, like many chemical reactions, metals oxidize (rust, contaminate etc.) better when hot. At molten temperatures steel will badly corrode and leave a crappy weld unless protected from oxygen initially.
MIG (Metal Inert Gas) aka MGAW (Metal-Gas Arc Welding)
Still uses the ground clamp like Arc welding. A spool of wire feeds out through the hand grip and arcs on the work piece. The sheath flows an inert gas (Argon, carbon dioxide, others) over the arc to displace the oxygen during the critical initial cooling of the weld. This method leaves no slag so multi-pass welding is much easier and consistent. This is also the method used by most robotic welding, like car doors and bodies where spot welding is not used. The power supply is an AC transformer operating at normal wall plug frequency (60 Hz in North America). This low frequency gives the arc a characteristic buzzing popping noise.
TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas)
Combines the above 2 methods. You basically hold an electric torch with a tungsten electrode and feed wire in manually with your other hand. Tungsten erodes very slowly under the arc. The inert gas flows out of the torch as in MIG to produce clean welds. The power supply is much more specialized and very high frequency. The arc is silent.
In all of the above there are variations in applied voltage, wire feed rate, gas type, and polarity of the arc for various welding conditions. For welding steel on your car you cannot legally use a torch since new cars use a HSLA steel (High Strength Low Alloy) material which is basically thinner and tempered compared to old cars (70's and older). The temperature of a torch is much lower than the electric methods and ruins much more area of the steel by overheating it an ruining the temper. Arc, MIG, and TIG melt the steel faster and the temper ruined area (aka the heat affected zone) is much smaller.
In my case I own a small Hobart MIG welder (120 A output) that I used on a restoration I did, I never fussed with anything other than wire speed and power settings. Do not buy one of those small stick welders unless it can be converted to use gas too, they are a cross between an arc welder and a MIG without the benefits of either other than price. Buy a MIG for sheet metal work on a car or a TIG if you have the bucks. Buy an arc welder for doing the big stuff since a large MIG/TIG is very expensive.
08-19-2005, 06:31 PM
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I dont understand what makes it mig and whatnot?
Like what is:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...gjj.0&MID=9876
one...
All the ones on homedepot dont say mig or anything.. Does having the gas make it a mig?
I am still a little confused.. What one from home depot would be a good one for me?
Like what is:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...gjj.0&MID=9876
one...
All the ones on homedepot dont say mig or anything.. Does having the gas make it a mig?
I am still a little confused.. What one from home depot would be a good one for me?
08-19-2005, 07:16 PM
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That link popped up generators?!?!?!
Lincoln Electric
Weld Pak 3200HD Wire Feed Welder
Model K2190-1
The above comes with seemingly everything including the regulator. You need to get a cylinder from a gas supply place.
I don't know if Home Depot sells TIG since its a major step up. If its electric and uses gas its MIG or TIG, if the wire is on a spool and feeds out of the gun, its MIG. If the gun has a fixed electrode (Tungsten) its TIG and costs a lot more than a MIG. Some of the cheaper units can use a flux filled wire that replaces the need for gas but you get slag like arc welding. Welders have gotten cheaper over the years there is no longer a need to buy something that can't use gas.
Lincoln Electric
Weld Pak 3200HD Wire Feed Welder
Model K2190-1
The above comes with seemingly everything including the regulator. You need to get a cylinder from a gas supply place.
I don't know if Home Depot sells TIG since its a major step up. If its electric and uses gas its MIG or TIG, if the wire is on a spool and feeds out of the gun, its MIG. If the gun has a fixed electrode (Tungsten) its TIG and costs a lot more than a MIG. Some of the cheaper units can use a flux filled wire that replaces the need for gas but you get slag like arc welding. Welders have gotten cheaper over the years there is no longer a need to buy something that can't use gas.
Last edited by BJM; 08-19-2005 at 07:23 PM.
08-19-2005, 07:43 PM
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the buzzing doesn't have to do with the type of welding, it has to do with the current: a/c buzzes from the current cycling.......that where the "buzzbox" term came from for the old a/c stick welders, but tig welding with a/c will buzz as well....
08-19-2005, 08:32 PM
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A MIG welder (Metallic Inert Gas) feeds wire from a spool, through a line, and out the tip of the "gun". If you use gas with your rig the gas will come out of the gun, too.
Photo mig1 is a representative small welder
Photo mig2 is a photo of a spool of welding wire. Most home setups use smaller spools.
Photo mig3 is a photo of the wire coming out of the tip.
There is an area around where the wire comes out that feeds gas over the weld puddle. The puddle is shielded from the oxygen and other contaminates in the atmosphere. This explanation is good only if you use some type of gas on your rig. Flux-core wire has a core filled with flux that, as it burns in the weld puddle, creates a pocket of gas around the puddle to keep gaseous contaminates out of the weld.
Photo mig1 is a representative small welder
Photo mig2 is a photo of a spool of welding wire. Most home setups use smaller spools.
Photo mig3 is a photo of the wire coming out of the tip.
There is an area around where the wire comes out that feeds gas over the weld puddle. The puddle is shielded from the oxygen and other contaminates in the atmosphere. This explanation is good only if you use some type of gas on your rig. Flux-core wire has a core filled with flux that, as it burns in the weld puddle, creates a pocket of gas around the puddle to keep gaseous contaminates out of the weld.
08-19-2005, 08:34 PM
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Photo of a mig welder being used. I can tell you what MIG does, but I can't tell you why the came up with Metallic Inert Gas as it's name. I could've been WIG, Wire Inert Gas or something...
Last edited by Mr Incredible; 08-19-2005 at 08:48 PM.