Multiple owner question
04-22-2014, 07:56 PM
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Multiple owner question This question is specifically for nc01ta, as I always appreciate your input. however I would very much appreciate anyone else's input.
A hypothetical.
Car1:
01 ss camaro 50k miles, excellent condition. Car fax 1 owner
Car 2: 01 ss camaro 30k miles, excellent condition. Car fax 5 owners
Why is car 1 and 2 very similar in value? for the same money I would choose the 5 owner car over the 1 owner, in my humble opinion the mileage outweighs the ownership.
To elaborate a 1 owner car, can have a neglectful owner, while a 5 owner car can possibly be considered a blue chip car, that has been passed around as an investment, and maintained by excellent owners. The number of owners does not necessarily dictate the quality of owner. While the odds, I assume, would be in favor of the 1 owner car, it's is still an unknown factor, and doesn't have a whole lot of weight in values for me.
A hypothetical.
Car1:
01 ss camaro 50k miles, excellent condition. Car fax 1 owner
Car 2: 01 ss camaro 30k miles, excellent condition. Car fax 5 owners
Why is car 1 and 2 very similar in value? for the same money I would choose the 5 owner car over the 1 owner, in my humble opinion the mileage outweighs the ownership.
To elaborate a 1 owner car, can have a neglectful owner, while a 5 owner car can possibly be considered a blue chip car, that has been passed around as an investment, and maintained by excellent owners. The number of owners does not necessarily dictate the quality of owner. While the odds, I assume, would be in favor of the 1 owner car, it's is still an unknown factor, and doesn't have a whole lot of weight in values for me.
04-22-2014, 10:10 PM
#2
TECH Junkie
I guess I'll start.
You could be absolutely right about the 5 owner car being the better car but it isn't likely. Like you said, the history of the car is vital which is why I stress to each poster here to do their homework. No shortcuts.
The big question in your scenario is why have there been 5 owners in such a short period of time. If the car was 30+ years old the change of hands would be more understandable, but not a 13 year old car. Something would be wrong with the car to be changing hands like that, plus the odds of having 5 different owners with the same goal in mind (collecting) would be astronomical. It's not a CETA or '99 Anniversary car. Even then, too much changing hands. It raises red flags. I would be leery. I've actually seen the sweetest low mileage T/A passed from owner to owner and I could not understand why. I eventually caught up with one of the past owners and learned that the car was basically a lemon that never was filed under the lemon law by the first owner. The car lived in the shops and no one could fix it. Baffling, but very real.
Also the paperwork trail can get blurred on a 5 owner car. Have all the maintenance records been passed from owner to owner? Has each owner babied the car and was it garage kept? Was one of the owners abusive to the car and left it outside all the time in inclement weather? These questions may never be fully answered and I personally would value a car much less not knowing the history. A one owner garage kept car with full records would be high on my list and worth much more having so many of the above questions answered adequately. Are there exceptions to this rule of thumb? You bet, but you can only answer looking at each car in detail. Each car must always be analyzed individually and priced accordingly. So many people throw numbers out there without asking for details or having any knowledge (details) about the car. Sure it's fun to guess but I try to treat each car individually as many posters are dead serious about buying or selling a car. I want to help and not throw misleading numbers out there. Serious $$$ to me and I'm sure most everyone here on LS1Tech. It's really not a section to be screwing around in as it could hurt someone bad in the pocketbook or raise false hopes. Nothing is more misleading than hearing posters say they would pay $xx,xxx for a car if they didn't have one already. It's almost always way too high of a price and the real bottom line? No way!!! I like to err on the side of caution and use all my years in the hobby to help as much as possible. I've been heavily involved in car shows since the '80's and really got into it the past 12 years when I retired, even was a judge for awhile. It wasn't my thing to hurt people's feelings when they would ask why they didn't win. It was spoiling it for me. I feel very comfortable with F-body pricing as this is my 17th year of ownership and have followed it closely firsthand, auctions, etc... I can't be spot on all the time but who can be?? You rarely get all the details and sometimes facts are not actually facts. There are always exceptions too True with every segment of the hobby.
By the way, thanks for the kind words.
You could be absolutely right about the 5 owner car being the better car but it isn't likely. Like you said, the history of the car is vital which is why I stress to each poster here to do their homework. No shortcuts.
The big question in your scenario is why have there been 5 owners in such a short period of time. If the car was 30+ years old the change of hands would be more understandable, but not a 13 year old car. Something would be wrong with the car to be changing hands like that, plus the odds of having 5 different owners with the same goal in mind (collecting) would be astronomical. It's not a CETA or '99 Anniversary car. Even then, too much changing hands. It raises red flags. I would be leery. I've actually seen the sweetest low mileage T/A passed from owner to owner and I could not understand why. I eventually caught up with one of the past owners and learned that the car was basically a lemon that never was filed under the lemon law by the first owner. The car lived in the shops and no one could fix it. Baffling, but very real.
Also the paperwork trail can get blurred on a 5 owner car. Have all the maintenance records been passed from owner to owner? Has each owner babied the car and was it garage kept? Was one of the owners abusive to the car and left it outside all the time in inclement weather? These questions may never be fully answered and I personally would value a car much less not knowing the history. A one owner garage kept car with full records would be high on my list and worth much more having so many of the above questions answered adequately. Are there exceptions to this rule of thumb? You bet, but you can only answer looking at each car in detail. Each car must always be analyzed individually and priced accordingly. So many people throw numbers out there without asking for details or having any knowledge (details) about the car. Sure it's fun to guess but I try to treat each car individually as many posters are dead serious about buying or selling a car. I want to help and not throw misleading numbers out there. Serious $$$ to me and I'm sure most everyone here on LS1Tech. It's really not a section to be screwing around in as it could hurt someone bad in the pocketbook or raise false hopes. Nothing is more misleading than hearing posters say they would pay $xx,xxx for a car if they didn't have one already. It's almost always way too high of a price and the real bottom line? No way!!! I like to err on the side of caution and use all my years in the hobby to help as much as possible. I've been heavily involved in car shows since the '80's and really got into it the past 12 years when I retired, even was a judge for awhile. It wasn't my thing to hurt people's feelings when they would ask why they didn't win. It was spoiling it for me. I feel very comfortable with F-body pricing as this is my 17th year of ownership and have followed it closely firsthand, auctions, etc... I can't be spot on all the time but who can be?? You rarely get all the details and sometimes facts are not actually facts. There are always exceptions too True with every segment of the hobby.
By the way, thanks for the kind words.
04-23-2014, 09:30 AM
#3
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your response.
I have been dealing in F-bodys as a hobby for some time now, interest starting with the 95 formula firebird I had in high school. I've recently sold both of mine, now I am looking to buy again. I have had some experience with the 72 and 73 455 TA's, however I mainly try to stick to IV gen as it is what I feel most comfortable with.
I am interested into moving into the more collector quality examples. Getting some insight from someone who has the collector mindset, is a great aid to me, and should make my job easier.
When it comes down to it, I have to rely on my own eyes, ears, and inspection capabilities, as I typically buy at dealer auction's and do not have a chance to talk to the owner. I see now that I would need to move outside my normal realm of buying and make some driveway deals, to get some cars with prominence.
I have been dealing in F-bodys as a hobby for some time now, interest starting with the 95 formula firebird I had in high school. I've recently sold both of mine, now I am looking to buy again. I have had some experience with the 72 and 73 455 TA's, however I mainly try to stick to IV gen as it is what I feel most comfortable with.
I am interested into moving into the more collector quality examples. Getting some insight from someone who has the collector mindset, is a great aid to me, and should make my job easier.
When it comes down to it, I have to rely on my own eyes, ears, and inspection capabilities, as I typically buy at dealer auction's and do not have a chance to talk to the owner. I see now that I would need to move outside my normal realm of buying and make some driveway deals, to get some cars with prominence.
04-25-2014, 07:55 AM
#4
TECH Junkie
Thanks for your response.
I have been dealing in F-bodys as a hobby for some time now, interest starting with the 95 formula firebird I had in high school. I've recently sold both of mine, now I am looking to buy again. I have had some experience with the 72 and 73 455 TA's, however I mainly try to stick to IV gen as it is what I feel most comfortable with.
I am interested into moving into the more collector quality examples. Getting some insight from someone who has the collector mindset, is a great aid to me, and should make my job easier.
When it comes down to it, I have to rely on my own eyes, ears, and inspection capabilities, as I typically buy at dealer auction's and do not have a chance to talk to the owner. I see now that I would need to move outside my normal realm of buying and make some driveway deals, to get some cars with prominence.
I have been dealing in F-bodys as a hobby for some time now, interest starting with the 95 formula firebird I had in high school. I've recently sold both of mine, now I am looking to buy again. I have had some experience with the 72 and 73 455 TA's, however I mainly try to stick to IV gen as it is what I feel most comfortable with.
I am interested into moving into the more collector quality examples. Getting some insight from someone who has the collector mindset, is a great aid to me, and should make my job easier.
When it comes down to it, I have to rely on my own eyes, ears, and inspection capabilities, as I typically buy at dealer auction's and do not have a chance to talk to the owner. I see now that I would need to move outside my normal realm of buying and make some driveway deals, to get some cars with prominence.
Good luck with your search.
04-25-2014, 05:42 PM
#5
TECH Apprentice
My current car is a 4/5 owner car can't remember exactly, it really had 3 owners, first never drove it, then it bounced around a cpl dealers, probally wanted to much money and couldn't sell, or was traded at a "new" car store who then wholesaled it, then a owner had it a year, put 600 miles on it, then the guy I bought it from bought it in Mich, hauled it home in a enclosed trailer, as NC01TA said you have to do your homework,
04-25-2014, 05:59 PM
#6
TECH Apprentice
also the 96 I bought from the org owner at a swipe, sold it at a fair price, that owner sold it on ebay the following year for less then he paid to a dealer in TX, then that dealer listed it at a crazy number and sold it within a month, BTW Carfax still showed 1 owner, haven't figured that out yet.....