jtaylor16

iTrader: (3)

Hey guys looking to sell my camaro and having a hard time figuring out what to list it for. Car is a Black 2000 z28 A4. 72,050 miles as of today on the body. A new motor was put together after the original blew up.
Set up includes:
2000 ls1 short block (bought with 12k, 5k since, 17k total)
241 heads (brand new take offs from ls1 gto, 5k on them now)
02 ls6 cam
ls6 valves springs
texas speed 7.425 hardened pushrods
ls6 oil pump
ls2 timing chain
ls6 intake manifold
ported throttle body
*motor was put together will all new gaskets, plugs, belts, etc. by my dad who is a mechanic and shop owner of 25 years

Other mods:
midwest converters 3400 stall installed with bigger trans cooler
gm performance 3.42 gears
slp cold air intake
umi panhard bar relocation
custom true dual exhaust
kooks 1 3/4" long tubes
car has stock wheels with street tires as well as two additional matching wheels with nitto drag radials on them.

Negatives about the car:
-paint is peeling on one quater panel and rear bumper but plan to have those two panels painted before selling
-one small tiny tear in drives seat
-car could use a re tune, rpm in Delaware started the tune but wasnt able to finish it due to lift issue with the original pushrods

Just looking to see what you guys think a fair asking price is, car is in good shape and will be in better shape once I fix the paint, low mileage, and super low mileage on the motor. Suggestions on what I you think I should list it at with the paint fixed, and maybe even some suggestions with the paint as is.

Thanks

Firebrian

A starting point is what a low mileage all original car brings. I've seen 10,000-15,000 orig mile '98-'00 Z28's for $9K-10K or so. In my local area there was a red '02 Trans Am automatic with 13K miles that was for sale early this year at $9500. An all original 70K mile car is probably in the $5K to $6K range. The NADA and KBB ought to be fairly close on the "private party - resale value" for an '00 Z28. I saw a clean '00 SS with 65K miles not far from me available for $6,500 last year that I was tempted to buy for a daily driver.

If your car is clean than go from the lower dollar amounts above and add in a premium for what you've rebuilt. Typically, that might be 30-50% of what you paid for the drive train rebuild/upgrade (everyone uses a different rule of thumb). $7K or $8K could be a reasonable asking price as is as long as it's passed emissions...another $500-$1000 with the paint fixed, engine tuned properly, and no leftover nits (like weak power windows, AC system leaks, etc.). It can't be worth more than a mint 10K mile, unmodified factory car at $9K to $10K though. You would probably get the best value from someone who is familiar with your Dad's work and knows it is top notch.

Rugcleaner

Where are you seeing these cars??????????

jtaylor16

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, i was hoping something in the 7-8k range with the paint fixed seemed reasonable

NC01TA

I have to ask the same thing. I sure don't see 'em. I'd like to see some links or real examples before I bite. I've been in this far too long and I've never seen an LS1 car with 10,000 - 15,000 miles on it for sale under $10,000. Maybe a salvage title car.

Rugcleaner

FOUND ONE, But the paint and body look rough as hell and its still over 6

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/cto/4456401552.html

Firebrian

I've seen 3 that I can think of off the top of my head.

The red 2002 TA at a large Auto Wholesaler/Broker in Waterbury, CT sold a few months ago for under $10K. Those guys advertised that car nationally for weeks via autotrader.com. It was the cheapest, low mileage TA on autotrader for quite some time. A pewter Z28 convertible out of NJ that has been on Ebay half a dozen times in the past year where it appears the seller would be happy to get in the $9's. I think that car has "sold" 3X but it keeps coming back. It's either bidders with no money or the seller is playing games....or the car's a wreck which doesn't seem to be the case from the photos. The year before that there was a 1998 Z28 LS-1 (red) with 9K miles that sold on Ebay for $9200. It looked mint. Also out of NJ as I recall. Fwiw there was a 28K mile 2000 Formula Firehawk 6 speed at Harte Nissan (East Hartford, CT) 2-1/2 years ago that was on Ebay 2-3 times. It never got past $12K and sold for somewhere near that amount. As nicely priced a low mileage hawk I've seen since I've been looking 3 years ago. Good deals are out there from time to time. In the future I'll make it a point to post cheap, low mileage, undamaged/unmodified LS-1's as I run across them.

Here's that NJ car again. Supposedly sold for $8900. Has some door dings though not visible in the photos. I'd take the car for that amount if I were looking for a Z vert. I'm seeing these cars in the Northeast where they aren't exactly the fastest sellers (NJ, NY, MA, CT). And in the winter time you can buy them even cheaper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-CONVERTIBLE-ONLY-9K-MILES-NEW-CAR-TRADE-/161282735972?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&forcerrptr=true&hash=item258d333f64&item=161282735972&nma=true&si=hHodw%252Bel3AJKMVJvzTyVCAf0PMI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Considering Trans Am's fetch $1500 more than a Z28, this TA is probably the equivalent of a Z28 priced at under $10K.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-TRANS-AM-COUPE-14772-MILES-5-7-AUTOMATIC-T-TOPS-LOADED-NICE-MAYNARD-MASS-/141274992198?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&forcerrptr=true&hash=item20e4a54e46&item=141274992198&nma=true&si=hHodw%252Bel3AJKMVJvzTyVCAf0PMI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

NC01TA

Firebrian, appreciate the links and info but isn't it interesting that none of these are real sales. There's always a reason, like 'lemons' or BS sales like that 2000 Z28 which supposedly sold on ebay, yet is still on their lot UNSOLD. There is a serious reason why. That's why ebay has little value for real sales figures. Some sales are real and others are not so 'blanket' statements aren't applicable. I have no idea why you posted the 2nd link because it is a 'no reserve' car. We have no idea what the seller wants for it unless you know personally.
Point #2, auto dealer broker auctions have little use here on LS1 Tech. The average person here can't bid at these type events so therefore what's the point? Also, consider this: What would an ultra low mileage F-body be doing at one of these auctions and why would it be selling for such a low price? Why wouldn't the selling dealer just let it go to an individual offering $10,000 at his car lot instead of paying money to transport the car and getting even less at auction? It doesn't make sense. That's why there are serious problems with these cars. Unfortunately many Sandy cars, Katrina cars, etc.. are on the market. They never were classified as 'problem' cars and won't show up on Carfax reports. If no insurance payout, no report, just an individual's loss that shows up nowhere. The scumbag dealers out there ****** these storm cars up and try to pass them off as sweet rides. This is very real and occurred a lot after Katrina. Why would Sandy be any different? Did you see the geographic area you mentioned? Yup....
I'm just not convinced that anyone can find a DECENT excellent condition ultra low mileage car for under $10,000. I don't want young readers here thinking they can get sweet cars like that for cheap. It just doesn't happen, and if it does, it's one really rare occasion.
Again, appreciate the info and please do follow up with links. The posters here looking for clean ultra low mileage cars would certainly love seeing a good deal. Let's just keep the dealer auctions out of the loop, as I explained.

Firebrian

You missed what I was saying. That 2nd linked blue firebird "sold" on Ebay a month or so ago for something around $11K to $12K. The deal obviously fell through or it wasn't real money (ie shill money). Now it's up again and fails to get above $10,600. The first auction bracketed the upper price range. It's a reasonable real world data point. It doesn't matter what the owner's reserve was as the bidding stalled at $10,600. That's all anyone in the country that watches ebay was willing to pay. I'll use that as a data point long before any retail price wish/reserve of the seller.

The Red 2002 TA with low mileage was not a dealer/broker auction. It was a sale at a large volume retail car dealership in Waterbury/Naugatuck, CT (500+ cars). I just forgot their name. It's "A Better Way Wholesale Autos." They advertise retail throughout CT and nation wide on line for specialty cars. They usually always have a F body Firebird or Camaro in stock. Definitely not an auction. I'm sure they do plenty of wholesale business too. And it was a real sale as the car sold shortly after appearing on autotrader.com and is no longer in inventory at the $9500. They couldn't get it sold in CT so they went national with it. A third of their inventory is on autotrader.com. 2-3 years ago they had a 10K to 15K mile '99 Camaro Z28 vert for $9K or so. That too, took a while to sell. I called on it but got little help with an over the phone description.

http://www.abwautos.com/

Fwiw ultra low mileage F bodies do go to the car auctions. Sometimes the retail dealers just can't get their price. Last year I almost pulled the trigger on a 4,000 mile SOM 2002 Camaro SS convertible that was for sale (autotrader.com) in the mid-west (Indiana or Ohio?). The car was pretty much flawless and 1 owner. That car went to auction(s) before settling out to the Indiana(?) dealer where they thought they could get $24K for it. It languished in their inventory for a year as they dropped price every few months. They finally lowered the price to $18-$19K/obo, took a loss, and it was gone. I wanted to trade my '99 SS towards it and it was just a matter of me driving 500 miles out there and doing the deal. Long distance deals are tough, esp. as winter is closing in. A 2002 Camaro SS vert with 29K miles at Pat's Auto sales (Springfield, MA) recently sold. I was also interested in trading towards that vehicle. The car fax showed that car at 3 auto auctions over 6-12 months in the mid-west before it finally came to MA. It seemed like a good car. I have no clue as to why some of these get cycled back and forth at auctions before finally landing with a dealer who can sell it. It would make no sense for a MA dealer to buy a clunker out of a Midwest auction to dump on locals in New England. It doesn't do a lot for the dealer's rep once the customer finds out the car's real problems.

I fully understand the Sandy and Katrina cars. That's another bag of worms. Buying a NJ car certainly has additional risks. There may be only a few under $10K price deals on great low mileage cars in any years. But, they do occur. I've run into several of them and thought too long on each of them before they were sold. Have your $10K cash ready and be ready to make a deal in 24-48 hours. It can happen.

NC01TA

Firebrian, I agree with many of the things you are saying, especially the jacked up prices that some sellers want. It's true in every segment of the hobby, not just our cars. Negotiations are all part of the game. If you don't play, you don't get a car.
There is still too much talk of dealer/broker activity though in your replies. This is useless for the 'average' poster looking to buy/sell here. Hell, it's even useless to me because I can buy a 10,000 miles F-body for $10,000 right now. Would love to find one. Who wouldn't? I just don't see them, and no one will convince me otherwise that there isn't a'problem' with such a car. It's priced that way for a reason. I disagree with you on that point.