JB84

Hey Guys,


I am new to this forum, so please excuse any newbie mistakes/blunders. I am in the process of getting my ducks in a row for the sale of my 2002 Camaro SS SLP - 35th anniversary. The car was purchased new by my father in 2002. We were the only drivers of the car. He has since passed away and the car just isn't getting the attention it needs. Here are some specs:


- 1 owner vehicle, all original from the factory
- Garage kept since day 1
- Approx. 27k miles (I need to verify the exact mileage)
- Convertible
- 6-speed manual transmission (Hurst Shifter)
- 345 HP SLP package consisting of SLP Center exhaust with rear fascia, and blackwing SLP air lid
- Special 35th anniversary floor mats (still in original package)


I still have to get around to detailing and taking some pictures (The car is very similar to the one in the picture below, except the grill says Camaro instead of SS). While I have a number in mind, I wanted to get some input from the experts on a realistic asking price in today's market. And by all means, if anyone is interested, let me know. Any help is appreciated.


Thanks,
JB

Bandits96ss

I could write you a few paragraphs on why but to save both of us the time I honestly could some where between $15k and 17k and for one of the few times might think you might be able to get the high side of that depending on how saturated the market is...Has a lot of upside with the black wing and CME but verts are unbelievably unpopular for some reason.

Anyway looks like a real nice representation and I hope you get what your looking for.

Firebrian

I don't buy into the "verts are very unpopular" notion. And I know my opinion is not the norm around here when it comes to verts, special options and models, etc. I was looking to buy a nice SS/WS6 vert back in 2011 and just couldn't find one priced "to sell" at that time. So I ended up with a TTop. In my mind verts are worth 5-15% more than a comparable SS coupe. And with a 6 speed even better (price guides don't give you the extra $1K that an M6 brings). Toss in another $500+ over price guides for the CME/blackwing. The price guides will likely understate the low mile premium by thousands. I looked at a 12K mile 2002 SS LE vert A4 in 2011 which was priced at $19,995...about the best price I could find in the entire northeast. That was a good price back then.

1 family car with 27K miles will be plenty desirable come spring. Do not undersell it. A few people will be looking for this exact car, especially with M6/CME. I'd sort of agree with the $15K-$17K mile price range, though in the upper half of that if very clean, with fresh tires, and maintenance up to date and well documented....which I would think you have. The M6/CME combo is +$1500 to a comparable A4 w/o SLP added content. KBB is at $12,500 private party/excellent condition hitting every box I could. That's absurd for a SS/LE/M6 vert. $7,100 is their value for a 133K mile vehicle...so a $5400 mileage premium or $540/10K miles. I'd think $600-650 for each 10K miles lower is more realistic. So figure another $650-$750 mileage premium vs. what KBB listed. So that brings the total to $2,250+ in premiums. When I deselect the "35th anniv" package, it drops the price only $100!!! So they don't have that factored in correctly. Figure another $1500 for that....for a total of $3,750 premium. And when I deselect "SS package" it drops another $300. Whacked out again!!! Figure another $750-$1,000 for SS....total premium up to $4500. Insane that KBB gives a total $400 premium for SS/LE/M6/CME/BW package over a strippo vert. At least they do give a $2,000+ premium for a vert over a coupe, which I generally agree with. So adding that all up I get $17,000 for a top end 27K mile car. That's what KBB should state.

https://www.kbb.com/chevrolet/camaro...=private-party

Firebrian

I recall a very nice 16K mile 2002 SS LE anniv coupe (M6?) for sale here last year that didn't get any action at $18K-$19K iirc. It wasn't until they dropped their price to $16K that it sold. Seemed cheap to me at the time. If your car is completely unmodified that's another plus (orig shifter, skip shift installed). Any other SLP content/options? As each one adds money to the bottom line. If I was looking this minute I'd take your car in a heartbeat at $15K. No doubt the dealer flippers will be looking to get it and make a few thousand. Would be nice if the end user got the car....and not the flippers.

Unlike the multiple years (3) for WS6 anniversay cars this is the only SS anniversary car. And with the stripe package (CME/Black wing) it's appearance is somewhat like the SS Berger Camaro's. I'm a big fan of the hood stripe package. And it's unfortunate you could only get it on a single factory Camaro model from 1998-2002....the 2000 LE anniv package.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree, the average 4th gen shopper seems to be turned off by a convertible. In fact, of the dozens of local 4th gen owners I've known over the years, only two or three were specifically interested in convertible models. But to Firebrian's point, I do agree that to the right shopper the 'vert should in fact be worth more - it's just a matter of finding that "right shopper" (same is true with some of the unpopular but rare colors, like SGM or BPM - there's probably someone who would pay a premium if the car is excellent, but if you want to move the car in a reasonable time frame you might have to price it at or below more common, but also more popular, colors.) I also agree with your price estimate range, pending pictures and/or further information.

Not sure what you mean here....are you specifically speaking of 4th gens or just LS1 cars? The 25th anniversary Trans Am wasn't actually a WS6 car, and the CETA technically wasn't an anniversary car since it was a Trans Am (vs. Firebird.) Really the only "anniversary" LS1 F-bodies were the 30th Trans Am and the 35th SS. But if we're including all 4th gens, then the 30th Anniversary SS would also count - meaning that there were technically two anniversary editions of each (30th and 35th for Camaro, 25th and 30th for Trans Am) during the 4th generation. But overall, there were many more special trim editions from the factory for Firebird/Trans Am throughout the 4th gen run.

NC01TA

Sounds like a wonderful car, and I would be one of those convertible lovers. One owner 15 year old cars hit my sweet spot. If I was in the market and the car properly checked out, $15,000 at the very minimum. It should not sell for less than that this upcoming 'topless' season. GLWS!!

Firebrian

I should have been more accurate in my "anniversary" car statement. Let's just say special editions. In any event the LS1 Camaro only has one such animal. The LS1 Pontiacs come in multiple flavors (30th anniv Trans Am WS6, 2001 FH black/gold anniv?, 2002 CETA). If there are other trim variations, I don't consider them very special. In the case of each of these, they all have stripe packages.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...delCode1=FBIRD

Here's a 4600 mile 1999 WS6 A4 anniversary coupe that will be sale for a long time....asking price $67,000 from private party. Thought I had seen it all until today....lol. Even if the car has 5 miles on it and still on the MSO, it probably wouldn't be worth over $40K.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I saw a white '02 SS with a similarly comical price a few years back. I think it was on Ebay.....$71,000 if I remember correctly. It was a perfect stock car, had something like 250 miles on it. Sure, definite #1 car and probably one of the nicest ones left in the country, but at $71k it might as well have been $1,000,000. Good luck, and sweet dreams to him!

JB84

Thanks for all the replies. This is very helpful. Initially, I was planning to list the car in the 20k +/- range. There have been 1 or 2 similar vehicles that sold in my area (Raleigh, NC) over the past year and they were listed at a higher price point. I'm not in huge rush to offload it, so I don't need to drop the price right away for a quick sale.


I was thinking about posting to Craigslist, as well as several other specialty forums. What are your thoughts on selling a vehicle like this through CL? I've sold a bunch of stuff on CL, but never anything at this price point. I realize this is a specialty car that in most cases is going to need a specialty buyer. My fear with CL is that I'm going to get a bunch of tire kickers coming out wasting my time wanting to take it for a "test drive."

Firebrian

You're dreaming at the $20K level. You'll probably turn away most of the people who might have an interest in buying it. I wouldn't even respond to such an ad....unless the price was down in the $17K-$18,500 price range. Looks like your wasting yours and our time here. Craig's List? Good luck with that.

I recall 2 years ago when a very neat, 1 owner, 2001 Firehawk NBM A4 convertible with 12K miles was listed on the Firehawk.org site, and Ebay/Autotrader ($22K) as well iirc. They made very few of those (45 total verts in all colors, 5 in NBM, 2 A4's). I'd have loved to own that car. I was in touch with the owner and they sold it within a month or so for $20,500. Now that was a $20K car. The same deal in a Camaro SS anniv car will likely have to be at least in the 10K-15K mile range. The car is fairly common so you can easily check Ebay completed sales to say what they've been "supposedly" have sold for. Same for Mecum, BJ, or the others. Understand that 80% of "asking" prices are complete BS. They never sell for that. Only those in the bottom 10-20% of listed ask prices for that same car/options/condition/mileage have any hope of selling. We have a specialty car thread here as well as a buy/sell forum. You can try here for free at $20K if you like.

They made 1396 Camaro LE anniv verts....over 600 M6's. Quite a bit of difference in the numbers vs. a Firehawk vert of any year. And because it was an SS anniv car, they have been heavily saved with lower miles. There will always be a 25K mile M6 vert out there to buy. For $20K you can buy a 1 of 100 built 2000-2002 SS Berger M6 coupe (stated 380 hp) with 20K-25K miles. The 2000 NBM Berger I'm thinking of was buyable at $19,500 two years ago....had several owners though. As long as we're talking about $20K cars....that's near the price range for a 2001-2002 Z06 Vette (395-405 hp) with 30K-40K miles.

JB84

I'm not looking to waste anyone's time here, nor am I looking to get into a message board battle. The reason I started the thread, was to get an idea of a good price point for my car, which I think I have. I do appreciate the input. I'm not entirely sure how I've wasted anyone's time, as I haven't even listed the car yet.

From your our comment above, I'm assuming you're not an advocate of Craigslist...

Bandits96ss

I typically have to agree with most everything Firebrian says but I feel this is probably one of the most important aspects that needs to be reiterated and that many are failing to grasp is that it's all a battle of competing markets and people need to realize that as other platforms begin to depreciate that the FBody market will adjust accordingly.

Sure there is the fluke case where you will find that one guy that this specific make/model/option was his dream and he will have his heart dead set on it and money is not a boundary. But I would not wait around for that.

This being said as the LS3 Camaros, C6 Vettes, C5 Z06s, Terminator Cobras start to drop in the High Teens to Low $20K. A non-specialty camaro (i.e. Berger, Nickey) has no room in this ballpark. This pushes the market of LS2 GTO's, base C5s, C4 ZR1's into the Mid Teens. In which in my opinion has pushed the LS1 GTO/FBody into the Low Teen sub 10K market.

One has to understand that your general buyer is looking for the best car within his range of platforms he likes for the money. Why would I pay 2x as much for your car as another nice mid mileage clean SS (of which I have seen plenty under $10K lately) the cost is just not justified unless I have some sort of freak fetish for an 02 Vert with the Anniversary Package.

I have been a die hard Fbody guy for 10 years now but no longer have one in my garage. What relation does this have one might ask. Well when I was shopping for a car as much as I love LS1 Fbody's there was just a lot better cars in the price range that I was looking to spend ($12 to $14K). I was struggling with the same battle anyone else would looking at a $20K camaro. This being why would I buy a 2002 Camaro when I could buy "X" for the same price.

Edit: As stated in my original post your have a very nice example and have a lot of plus side with some of the options. That being said that is only going to get you so far. Honestly speaking even at $17K you would be mostly like finding someone who is pretty die hard on having an 02 Vert Anniversary which in my opinion is a pretty select group of people.

Bandits96ss

Regarding C/L as with anything you are trying to sell in life the more places you have it advertised the more likely you are to sell. My personal experience with C/L though is I personally hate it but have had some success selling stuff. More often then not you get some guy wanting to trade his Honda Civic and a Yamaha Cruiser for your car or someone that strings you out for days of texting only to offer $5K below your asking price.

I had my last car on C/L for 3 months and got so sick of it I ended up removing the ad. I ended up selling my car through here so I guess +1 for LS1Tech......

ragtopz28

iTrader: (57)

I sold my triple black 2002 vert w/27K miles on Craigs List for all the money. You just ignore the lowballers. I always put in my ad "emails will be ignored, real people call" and it weeds out most of the BS.
The guy that bought my car was from Germany (imagine that) and we went to the bank and he pulled out $14.5 out of the outside ATM (didn't think that was possible either).
On CL, you can also start a little high, I think that weeds out most. Serious buyers will want to see it first and then offer. Just tell them before they come, I'm not taking_______

Firebrian

$14.5K for that car (if SS M6) sounds like very fair money for both parties. Not too hot and not too cold. I'd have paid that if looking for an M6 vert. A guy from Germany (who now has to ship the car back I presume) is not our ordinary F body buyer. Far and few between. You caught a unicorn of sorts. A CL listing that starts a "little high" is still probably going to keep me from even calling. Now if starting $500-$1,000 above what you plan to settle for is a little high, then I agree with that. But, for those starting out a "little" higher than your local dealer's starting price (ie $2K-$3K than what you know it should sell for it), then it won't happen.

ragtopz28

iTrader: (57)

It was an A4 Z28!

JC316

iTrader: (1)

I'm a convertible guy, but when I was trying to sell my WS6 vert, I had so many people tell me "If your car was a T-top I would buy it". Hell, even the guy that I traded with really didn't want the convertible, but I was willing to trade with him.

Same thing with mustangs too. I can't give away a convertible.

NC01TA

...or getting robbed or worse. It's rare but it happens. CL =
I personally NEVER look at CL for anything. If I miss out, I don't care. IMO, I feel that if you are selling an expensive car, you can swing $50 for an ad or two, not looking for 'freebies' on the internet. A seller too cheap to buy an ad may also indicate other 'cheap' approaches with car maintenance and upkeep. That's how I look at it personally and I'm someone that would be in your buyer's market. I'm not alone in my thinking. Many serious buyers look at Hemmings and Autotrader to start with. Ebay can be OK once you get past the BS and do your homework. My last purchase (the C4) was an ebay find through a dealer. Before that, a '74 AMC and an '87 SS Aerocoupe were Hemmings cars both listed by private sellers. When the time came, I sold both on ebay, and before that a BMW and 3 elderly friends' cars were sold on Autotrader. Just some of my experiences anyway.
Again, best of luck with the sale when the time comes.

JC316

iTrader: (1)

I don't get that mindset, even with ebay or auto trader, you're still meeting a perfect stranger. I've dealt on craigslist for years and never had an issue.

I bought a 17K mile 96 Impala SS on craigslist. The guy was more scared of me than I was of him. He asked me to meet him in the police station parking lot.

GimmeLSx

iTrader: (4)

Craigslist is by far and above the largest classified ads venue anywhere. Sure, there can be stupid people on there, but if you are careful, you will not have a problem. I have sold many, many cars and other items with great success over the years through it.