Fitting 79mm 19x10 C6 rims to my Formula, the experience.
09-12-2006, 06:11 PM
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Fitting 79mm 19x10 C6 rims to my Formula, the experience. A little background. A few weeks ago, I had the chance to pick up a set of polished C6 Z51 rims for the huge amount of $300. No, they're not stolen. They're OEM take-offs, as the largest Corvette dealership in the region resides locally and they do a lot of business with NTB where a friend of mine was the shop manager. Several times a week, the dealership sends cars over for "upgrades" in rims for a customer purchase. In this particular case, the owner wanted chrome Z51 rims on his car instead of the polished. NTB usually had the option to purchase the take-offs for a substancial discount, and this time I bought in.
Moving on. I bought these with the idea of how badass they'd look on my Formula, especially because C6 rims are still a rarity on 4th Gen F-Bodies, and 19s are almost unheard of. I did some research on here, and found everyone running 18s, or occasionally knock-off 19s with the correct offset. A thread I'd started had some people telling me I could get these to work with a small set of spacers, which I have to run with my Pro-Stars anyways. So I ordered some S-02 Pole Positions in 295/35/19 and waited.
After some bullshit with Fedex losing my tires, I finally got them. I took these today to another NTB where a friend is the Sales Manager, and he mounted them up after MAJOR difficulty due to the very narrow sidewall. However, these things look totally badass. Home I went.
I get home, pull the old wheels off, and go to mount these on. From the get-go they won't even seat on the hub, they're hitting the bump stop. I grab the small spacers and it looks like they'll fit, then they stop against the lower part of the inner fender well, right next to the LCA. I smack this with a rubber mallet, and this still didn't work. So I do the inevitable. I start cutting with a cutting wheel, which is killing me because this is a collector vehicle with collector plates (1 of 124 BGC Formulas), but I figure minimal modifications at best. Still hits, and not by a little, either.
I now do the next step, taking the hammer and beating my poor car to death in the inner fender well area, trying to clear. An hour later, after missing underbody coating, missing paint, many dents, and pissing me off, I try again.
Still ******* being impacted, and still by quite a large margin. So I take my bigger spacer (1/4", used for my front Pro-Stars) and try it. Nothing. Being stupid, I stack both 1/4" spacers, and it works, with about 1mm of clearance available. But now, I have no threads left to grab with my lugs.
Bring on the rotor removal. Let's see about running longer wheels studs, maybe that'll work. Yeah, right. It looks like I have to remove the e-brake shoe assembly, and then MAYBE I can punch the studs out and have a small chance at pulling them through and pressing them in, if I miss the ABS reluctor ring. Maybe. This is getting ridiculous.
I make a call to friend of mine who works service at a Chevy dealership, and he thinks I can do the studs with a little effort, but that still leaves the expense of buying them, and hassle of installing them, and the leftover 1mm difference of gap running a 1/2" spacer, which would still suck. Plus, the studs won't let me use my OEM wheel stud caps, which I'm kinda picky about keeping for looks.
Call to Jegs, they're five minutes away. The offer up a wheel adapter, which supposedly lengthens the hub of the axle by bolting first to the hub using the OEM studs, then it has it's own set of studs the wheel bolts to. The guy orders me one that also changes the stud placement (5x4.5 to 5x4.75, WTF), and says I should be good. I check the site out again, and this doesn't sound right. I call back and speak to another guy, who chastises the first guy with me on the phone for selling me **** that won't work.
In addition to not needed a stud offset change, these things are also made out of some cheap, cast steel and require the studs to center the adapter. He said not only are they unsafe, but my 600+rwhp/rwtq will snap these things in half and I'll lose it, if not at least when taking a tight turn somewhere (the car handles as well, road race chassis/suspension setup). He cancels the order and tells me good luck. At least he was honest and concerned about my safety. Also, he tells me their version are SAE studs, so they won't work with our OEM lugnuts had I continued against his advice.
What to do now? I've gotten so much time, energy, patience, and money tied into this setup, I'm out of options short of selling these off and starting again, or finding that one C6 owner willing to trade me a pair of their polished 18s for my 19s, then worrying about mounting and dismouting the tires back and forth (S-02s on mine, remember?). Not to mention, I want to be that one 4th Gen owner with the badass looking combo and unique setup that I KNOW no one else around here has, let alone 99.99% of the F-Body world out there.
So, I start a Google search, and amazingly enough, find my solution.
http://www.skulte.com
Sorry Mods if they're not a sponsor, but at least leave the link up for tech info. The amount of information their site has about offsets, fitments, options, engineering/design, and physics is a blessing to 3rd and 4th Gen owners with questions about anything pertaining to the above, and then some.
The owner, Andris Skulte, does road racing in a highly modified TT 3rd Gen Camaro. He's accomplished this using 4th Gen wheels, which as some know, are about 2" narrower in offset than the OEM 3rd Gens. They have to use a huge wheel adapter to make them work, VERY similar to me wanting to run C6 wheels on my car. The 19x10 wheel has a 79mm offset as compared to our 50-55mm, which is a big difference. He also makes these from billet aluminum, includes the acron lugs needed for seating, and they're co-eccentric machined for centering.
The info from their site:
Sounds pretty good so far. I wondered how they looked, as the Jegs ones looked like something made in Korea by an 8 year-old. Well:
Not only do these look like they'll work, they use our OEM lugs and are supposedly strong enough to support my power and keep the integrity of my driveline whatever. So I give him a call.
I will say, this guy knew EVERYTHING about my car from the moment I told him the year. He went through the specs like nothing, talked about his processes, his race car, what to expect, and what this will do for me. The first two minutes I was enthralled and decided to buy these, before he was even finished. Now, they are somewhat expensive at $139 for the 1.25" set. But the material and craftsmanship coupled with the peace of mind in knowing I won't have to sacrfice my car's integrity nor the time and money so far have got me ecstatic.
So, this seems to be a viable solution at this point to other owners looking to run the same or similar setup on their F-Body. Will it work? I have a feeling it will, and the appearance factor alone will be well worth the trouble (although hitting and cutting my car makes me sad)
But I do think this will prove to myself and other owners that this can be had and look really good. I've seen a multitude of pics with guys running the 18s, and I cannot say how ******* pimp their cars look. These 19s oughta do wonders, but at a price.
They should be here Friday, and although I work 3rd shift, I'll probably mount the wheels on Saturday morning and run out to take some pics. I cannot wait, and I hope some of you share the same enthusiasm.
Moving on. I bought these with the idea of how badass they'd look on my Formula, especially because C6 rims are still a rarity on 4th Gen F-Bodies, and 19s are almost unheard of. I did some research on here, and found everyone running 18s, or occasionally knock-off 19s with the correct offset. A thread I'd started had some people telling me I could get these to work with a small set of spacers, which I have to run with my Pro-Stars anyways. So I ordered some S-02 Pole Positions in 295/35/19 and waited.
After some bullshit with Fedex losing my tires, I finally got them. I took these today to another NTB where a friend is the Sales Manager, and he mounted them up after MAJOR difficulty due to the very narrow sidewall. However, these things look totally badass. Home I went.
I get home, pull the old wheels off, and go to mount these on. From the get-go they won't even seat on the hub, they're hitting the bump stop. I grab the small spacers and it looks like they'll fit, then they stop against the lower part of the inner fender well, right next to the LCA. I smack this with a rubber mallet, and this still didn't work. So I do the inevitable. I start cutting with a cutting wheel, which is killing me because this is a collector vehicle with collector plates (1 of 124 BGC Formulas), but I figure minimal modifications at best. Still hits, and not by a little, either.
I now do the next step, taking the hammer and beating my poor car to death in the inner fender well area, trying to clear. An hour later, after missing underbody coating, missing paint, many dents, and pissing me off, I try again.
Still ******* being impacted, and still by quite a large margin. So I take my bigger spacer (1/4", used for my front Pro-Stars) and try it. Nothing. Being stupid, I stack both 1/4" spacers, and it works, with about 1mm of clearance available. But now, I have no threads left to grab with my lugs.
Bring on the rotor removal. Let's see about running longer wheels studs, maybe that'll work. Yeah, right. It looks like I have to remove the e-brake shoe assembly, and then MAYBE I can punch the studs out and have a small chance at pulling them through and pressing them in, if I miss the ABS reluctor ring. Maybe. This is getting ridiculous.
I make a call to friend of mine who works service at a Chevy dealership, and he thinks I can do the studs with a little effort, but that still leaves the expense of buying them, and hassle of installing them, and the leftover 1mm difference of gap running a 1/2" spacer, which would still suck. Plus, the studs won't let me use my OEM wheel stud caps, which I'm kinda picky about keeping for looks.
Call to Jegs, they're five minutes away. The offer up a wheel adapter, which supposedly lengthens the hub of the axle by bolting first to the hub using the OEM studs, then it has it's own set of studs the wheel bolts to. The guy orders me one that also changes the stud placement (5x4.5 to 5x4.75, WTF), and says I should be good. I check the site out again, and this doesn't sound right. I call back and speak to another guy, who chastises the first guy with me on the phone for selling me **** that won't work.
In addition to not needed a stud offset change, these things are also made out of some cheap, cast steel and require the studs to center the adapter. He said not only are they unsafe, but my 600+rwhp/rwtq will snap these things in half and I'll lose it, if not at least when taking a tight turn somewhere (the car handles as well, road race chassis/suspension setup). He cancels the order and tells me good luck. At least he was honest and concerned about my safety. Also, he tells me their version are SAE studs, so they won't work with our OEM lugnuts had I continued against his advice.
What to do now? I've gotten so much time, energy, patience, and money tied into this setup, I'm out of options short of selling these off and starting again, or finding that one C6 owner willing to trade me a pair of their polished 18s for my 19s, then worrying about mounting and dismouting the tires back and forth (S-02s on mine, remember?). Not to mention, I want to be that one 4th Gen owner with the badass looking combo and unique setup that I KNOW no one else around here has, let alone 99.99% of the F-Body world out there.
So, I start a Google search, and amazingly enough, find my solution.
http://www.skulte.com
Sorry Mods if they're not a sponsor, but at least leave the link up for tech info. The amount of information their site has about offsets, fitments, options, engineering/design, and physics is a blessing to 3rd and 4th Gen owners with questions about anything pertaining to the above, and then some.
The owner, Andris Skulte, does road racing in a highly modified TT 3rd Gen Camaro. He's accomplished this using 4th Gen wheels, which as some know, are about 2" narrower in offset than the OEM 3rd Gens. They have to use a huge wheel adapter to make them work, VERY similar to me wanting to run C6 wheels on my car. The 19x10 wheel has a 79mm offset as compared to our 50-55mm, which is a big difference. He also makes these from billet aluminum, includes the acron lugs needed for seating, and they're co-eccentric machined for centering.
The info from their site:
Will your wheel adapters cause vibrations?
Our billet adapters are hubcentric, and also have conical lugnut seats that center the adapter to the hub. If the adapters are first finger tightened in a star pattern, then torqued to 30 ft-lbs, and finally ftorqued to 85 ft-lbs, the adapters will center themselves to the lugnuts. Other adapters that use the older mag-wheel style shank and washer to bolt the adapters to the hub will have some slop, and may cause vibrations at higher speeds. We also recommend wheel-centric lips on any adapters that are thicker than 3 inches, especially in the front. Under 3 inches, we have never had any vibration issues, although we can add the wheel centric lip if requested on custom adapters. We use the SPD billet wheel adapters on our '89 Camaro, which regularly sees high-speeds at the race track without vibration.
Do the bolt-on wheel adapters increase the load on suspension parts?
The suspension loads are only affected by the centerline of the tire. Billet adapters usually correct offset issues when bolting newer style high offset wheels onto older cars that were designed with low offset wheels. A wheel with a 51mm offset and a 2" adapter is identical to the suspension as a 0mm factory wheel. This loads are the same on the wheel studs, bearings, bushings, because the wheel is in exactly the same location on the car.
If it helps, imagine two identical wheels, with only the offset being different. Bolt the 2" adapter to the 51mm offset wheel, and it will measure exactly the same as the 0mm offset wheel.
1.25" Billet Wheel Adapters, pair
[Billet125] $139.00
Our adapters are precision CNC machined from a 6.25" diameter billet of 6061-T6 aluminum for precise tolerances and a perfect fit. Edges have been radiused to eliminate stress risers, and only the highest quality heavy duty M12x1.50 studs are pressed into the adapter for the ultimate strength. Short cadmium plated open ended lugnuts are included with the adapter pair to easily verify thread engagement, save weight, and prevent corrosion. We take extra care to design and machine the highest quality adapters possible. These are the best adapters you can buy.
Our billet adapters are hubcentric, and also have conical lugnut seats that center the adapter to the hub. If the adapters are first finger tightened in a star pattern, then torqued to 30 ft-lbs, and finally ftorqued to 85 ft-lbs, the adapters will center themselves to the lugnuts. Other adapters that use the older mag-wheel style shank and washer to bolt the adapters to the hub will have some slop, and may cause vibrations at higher speeds. We also recommend wheel-centric lips on any adapters that are thicker than 3 inches, especially in the front. Under 3 inches, we have never had any vibration issues, although we can add the wheel centric lip if requested on custom adapters. We use the SPD billet wheel adapters on our '89 Camaro, which regularly sees high-speeds at the race track without vibration.
Do the bolt-on wheel adapters increase the load on suspension parts?
The suspension loads are only affected by the centerline of the tire. Billet adapters usually correct offset issues when bolting newer style high offset wheels onto older cars that were designed with low offset wheels. A wheel with a 51mm offset and a 2" adapter is identical to the suspension as a 0mm factory wheel. This loads are the same on the wheel studs, bearings, bushings, because the wheel is in exactly the same location on the car.
If it helps, imagine two identical wheels, with only the offset being different. Bolt the 2" adapter to the 51mm offset wheel, and it will measure exactly the same as the 0mm offset wheel.
1.25" Billet Wheel Adapters, pair
[Billet125] $139.00
Our adapters are precision CNC machined from a 6.25" diameter billet of 6061-T6 aluminum for precise tolerances and a perfect fit. Edges have been radiused to eliminate stress risers, and only the highest quality heavy duty M12x1.50 studs are pressed into the adapter for the ultimate strength. Short cadmium plated open ended lugnuts are included with the adapter pair to easily verify thread engagement, save weight, and prevent corrosion. We take extra care to design and machine the highest quality adapters possible. These are the best adapters you can buy.
Not only do these look like they'll work, they use our OEM lugs and are supposedly strong enough to support my power and keep the integrity of my driveline whatever. So I give him a call.
I will say, this guy knew EVERYTHING about my car from the moment I told him the year. He went through the specs like nothing, talked about his processes, his race car, what to expect, and what this will do for me. The first two minutes I was enthralled and decided to buy these, before he was even finished. Now, they are somewhat expensive at $139 for the 1.25" set. But the material and craftsmanship coupled with the peace of mind in knowing I won't have to sacrfice my car's integrity nor the time and money so far have got me ecstatic.
So, this seems to be a viable solution at this point to other owners looking to run the same or similar setup on their F-Body. Will it work? I have a feeling it will, and the appearance factor alone will be well worth the trouble (although hitting and cutting my car makes me sad)
But I do think this will prove to myself and other owners that this can be had and look really good. I've seen a multitude of pics with guys running the 18s, and I cannot say how ******* pimp their cars look. These 19s oughta do wonders, but at a price.They should be here Friday, and although I work 3rd shift, I'll probably mount the wheels on Saturday morning and run out to take some pics. I cannot wait, and I hope some of you share the same enthusiasm.
09-12-2006, 08:28 PM
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That's fine and dandy, where was this response when I initially posted a topic about fitment of these?
I don't need to PM her anyways for custom anything, it's a bit late since I dropped $150 for custom adapters. This is another alternative, and beats the issue of even having to run spacers or longer studs to begin with.
I don't need to PM her anyways for custom anything, it's a bit late since I dropped $150 for custom adapters. This is another alternative, and beats the issue of even having to run spacers or longer studs to begin with.
09-12-2006, 08:59 PM
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Very good post , I just bought a set of C6 Z51 wheels about 2 hours ago. I was getting ready to post if anyone else has done this yet because the 19x10's looked too big. I will not be able to buy tires at this time, so if you will let me know how it goes thanks. 
09-12-2006, 09:36 PM
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I've already mounted the fronts, and they bolted right on without any fitment or clearance issues. Good to go there.
As for tires, I was seeing $330-$480 for the rears (285 or 295/35/19) alone, EACH. I went on Ebay and picked up a set of 50% tread Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Positions for $102 shipped and insured. I'd check out some auctions and Ebay Seller stores for pricing. However, AVOID VYC TIRES AT ALL COSTS! These shady ***** pulled some bullshit on me, then I left them well-deserved negative feedback (didn't ship my first set of tires, and never notified me. I had to call them before they even told me). They left me some saying "leaves negative feedback for fun". I had to retract it to keep my 100% positive (six years worth). Look at their feedback, they have 166 retractions, a ton of negatives, and those negatives given have always been given back to the buyer with some retarded comment like mine. Avoid these *****.
So yeah, billet adapters for the 19s and the 18s bolt right up
As for tires, I was seeing $330-$480 for the rears (285 or 295/35/19) alone, EACH. I went on Ebay and picked up a set of 50% tread Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Positions for $102 shipped and insured. I'd check out some auctions and Ebay Seller stores for pricing. However, AVOID VYC TIRES AT ALL COSTS! These shady ***** pulled some bullshit on me, then I left them well-deserved negative feedback (didn't ship my first set of tires, and never notified me. I had to call them before they even told me). They left me some saying "leaves negative feedback for fun". I had to retract it to keep my 100% positive (six years worth). Look at their feedback, they have 166 retractions, a ton of negatives, and those negatives given have always been given back to the buyer with some retarded comment like mine. Avoid these *****.
So yeah, billet adapters for the 19s and the 18s bolt right up
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09-12-2006, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkFormula
I've already mounted the fronts, and they bolted right on without any fitment or clearance issues. Good to go there.
As for tires, I was seeing $330-$480 for the rears (285 or 295/35/19) alone, EACH. I went on Ebay and picked up a set of 50% tread Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Positions for $102 shipped and insured. I'd check out some auctions and Ebay Seller stores for pricing. However, AVOID VYC TIRES AT ALL COSTS! These shady ***** pulled some bullshit on me, then I left them well-deserved negative feedback (didn't ship my first set of tires, and never notified me. I had to call them before they even told me). They left me some saying "leaves negative feedback for fun". I had to retract it to keep my 100% positive (six years worth). Look at their feedback, they have 166 retractions, a ton of negatives, and those negatives given have always been given back to the buyer with some retarded comment like mine. Avoid these *****.
So yeah, billet adapters for the 19s and the 18s bolt right up
As for tires, I was seeing $330-$480 for the rears (285 or 295/35/19) alone, EACH. I went on Ebay and picked up a set of 50% tread Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Positions for $102 shipped and insured. I'd check out some auctions and Ebay Seller stores for pricing. However, AVOID VYC TIRES AT ALL COSTS! These shady ***** pulled some bullshit on me, then I left them well-deserved negative feedback (didn't ship my first set of tires, and never notified me. I had to call them before they even told me). They left me some saying "leaves negative feedback for fun". I had to retract it to keep my 100% positive (six years worth). Look at their feedback, they have 166 retractions, a ton of negatives, and those negatives given have always been given back to the buyer with some retarded comment like mine. Avoid these *****.
So yeah, billet adapters for the 19s and the 18s bolt right up
09-12-2006, 10:12 PM
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Yeah, I think his is the one I saw after I bought my rims and searched for info on mounting them. I think the offset will look badass on mine:
Pics will come this weekend, providing our ever-changing weather agrees
Pics will come this weekend, providing our ever-changing weather agrees
09-12-2006, 10:14 PM
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OEM calls for 245/40/18, which the 275s will bulge out a bit and look stupid. Plus, running 245s isn't a huge change in footprint, but won't track as bad on the road versus running the 275s which I've been doing for awhile with my Enkeis as seen in the above pic.
09-12-2006, 10:28 PM
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Here's one I just snapped of the driver's-front about two minutes ago, showing the look and clearance. Sorry for the off-road appearance, I have the other side jacked up since I have to replace a lugnut stud that I snapped earlier (the rotor laying on the floor in the pic) and I've gotta wait until tomorrow to pick it up.
Yeah, it's been one of those days
Yeah, it's been one of those days
09-12-2006, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cabesas
they should fit with adapters on the back and nothing on the front.I got some on my car and it rides preety good.
Also, anyone have any idea how to remove the Corvette "crossed flags" from the centercaps without screwing up the finish of the caps?
09-13-2006, 08:32 AM
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That's because they're manufactured with the correct offset for F-Bodies. I've run 17x11s on my car before with no issues.
The info posted above will enlighten you on why the C6 19s won't bolt right up. 79mm offset.
The info posted above will enlighten you on why the C6 19s won't bolt right up. 79mm offset.
09-13-2006, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
I have 19x10.5 HRE's in the back and they went on with no issues and have never rubbed. Never needed an adapter.
darkformula. I wish I would have seen your thread needing help before you started hacking at your car. The spacers will likely fix your problem. i've ran many sets of 1in spacers. I buy them on ebay from some guy named "ezaccessory", thye go for about 75 shipped for the pair. he also carries 1.25in among many others.
09-13-2006, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkFormula
That's because they're manufactured with the correct offset for F-Bodies. I've run 17x11s on my car before with no issues.
The info posted above will enlighten you on why the C6 19s won't bolt right up. 79mm offset.
The info posted above will enlighten you on why the C6 19s won't bolt right up. 79mm offset.
lol
09-13-2006, 08:45 AM
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also some of ezaccesorys spacers have the lip on the spacer so the wheel can sit on it, just like it would be sitting on the wheel hub itself..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Wheel...27032511QQrdZ1
they're lugs look cheap, but they can be replaced. I know you already bought your spacers, so my posts are pretty much pointless., but just throwing this out there for future use if you want to save a few $. ezaccesorry also ships insanely fast. You will get the spacers in 1-2 days after ordering.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Wheel...27032511QQrdZ1
they're lugs look cheap, but they can be replaced. I know you already bought your spacers, so my posts are pretty much pointless., but just throwing this out there for future use if you want to save a few $. ezaccesorry also ships insanely fast. You will get the spacers in 1-2 days after ordering.