Running 11's - How hard is it? What's your story?
02-01-2015, 05:45 PM
#63
11 Second Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: TN
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NOT AN LS1, LS3 crate engine.
360 RWHP/329 RWTQ Note
Pick up 49 Rear Wheel Shetland Ponies when Dyno'ed on DynoJet over Mustang Dyno.)
3564 LBs with me an about 4 gallons of fuel. 48% of weight on Front Tires, 52% on Rear Tires.
3.55 Rear Gear. 300 Treadwear street tires. Can not spin tires on a prepped Track. Just drive up to Line and wait on guys to do their burnouts...
TQ converter has next to no Flash. That plus 52% rear weight with available HP/TQ is mostly the reason for that. If I ever have to pull trans, I will have Converter re-stalled to flash around 3,000 RPM. Dual Disc/Light wieght, can handle up to around 850 HP. Very effecient as you can see by MPH speed.
Transmission in my opinion is the reason for high 11s/Low 12s, passes with HP/TQ engine puts out and no Flash Vert = 1.97-2.08 60' times.
TCI 6X: 2.97 1st; 2.23 2nd; 1.57 3rd; 1.18 4th; 1.00 5th, 0.75 6th/OD. Car Traps in 4th (3.55 X 1.18 = 4.19 Effective Rear gear ratio) 16% or less RPMs lost between shifts. Engine does no have to pull back into it's powerband, it stays in it due to close ratio gearing.
Beech Bend 2014 Left Lane
Beech Bend 2013, 3/4 tank of fuel, Right Lane
Bristol Dragway, 2014, 1225' above sea level. 1964 right lane.
Car weight as ran at Beech Bend 2014 without driver 1st, with Driver 2nd.
Note: Notice how rear weight with Driver makes Left to Right rear tire weight within 10 lbs of one another. Thats due to suspension set up.
Current in work Project: Run in 10s in 1/4 mile, with under 400 RWHP (Mustang Dyno), with min of 200 Treadwear street tires (No Dr's or Slicks), Street Legal Driver and NHRA Legal 10s racer.
360 RWHP/329 RWTQ Note
Pick up 49 Rear Wheel Shetland Ponies when Dyno'ed on DynoJet over Mustang Dyno.) 3564 LBs with me an about 4 gallons of fuel. 48% of weight on Front Tires, 52% on Rear Tires.
3.55 Rear Gear. 300 Treadwear street tires. Can not spin tires on a prepped Track. Just drive up to Line and wait on guys to do their burnouts...
TQ converter has next to no Flash. That plus 52% rear weight with available HP/TQ is mostly the reason for that. If I ever have to pull trans, I will have Converter re-stalled to flash around 3,000 RPM. Dual Disc/Light wieght, can handle up to around 850 HP. Very effecient as you can see by MPH speed.
Transmission in my opinion is the reason for high 11s/Low 12s, passes with HP/TQ engine puts out and no Flash Vert = 1.97-2.08 60' times.
TCI 6X: 2.97 1st; 2.23 2nd; 1.57 3rd; 1.18 4th; 1.00 5th, 0.75 6th/OD. Car Traps in 4th (3.55 X 1.18 = 4.19 Effective Rear gear ratio) 16% or less RPMs lost between shifts. Engine does no have to pull back into it's powerband, it stays in it due to close ratio gearing.
Beech Bend 2014 Left Lane
Beech Bend 2013, 3/4 tank of fuel, Right Lane
Bristol Dragway, 2014, 1225' above sea level. 1964 right lane.
Car weight as ran at Beech Bend 2014 without driver 1st, with Driver 2nd.
Note: Notice how rear weight with Driver makes Left to Right rear tire weight within 10 lbs of one another. Thats due to suspension set up.
Current in work Project: Run in 10s in 1/4 mile, with under 400 RWHP (Mustang Dyno), with min of 200 Treadwear street tires (No Dr's or Slicks), Street Legal Driver and NHRA Legal 10s racer.
02-01-2015, 09:45 PM
#64
TECH Veteran
^ car was a absolute beast. Car was very effective not to mention you drove that car like a boss should.
02-02-2015, 01:11 PM
#66
Your current power level should get you there assuming your car doesn't weight 3800+ lbs.
You need to cut minimum 1.6 60 foots to take advantage of your power and nail your shifts a minimum of 6700 rpm.
6 speed is harder to dial in vs auto, I know. It's also more rewarding IMO.
You need a proper clutch(ditch the LS7) that will hold 5,000+ rpm launches, driveshaft + rear end that won't explode(12 bolt or 9 inch), and a tire to put the power to the ground(Mickey Thompson 3053S *stiffwall).
You need to cut minimum 1.6 60 foots to take advantage of your power and nail your shifts a minimum of 6700 rpm.
6 speed is harder to dial in vs auto, I know. It's also more rewarding IMO.
You need a proper clutch(ditch the LS7) that will hold 5,000+ rpm launches, driveshaft + rear end that won't explode(12 bolt or 9 inch), and a tire to put the power to the ground(Mickey Thompson 3053S *stiffwall).
02-02-2015, 01:28 PM
#67
Your current power level should get you there assuming your car doesn't weight 3800+ lbs.
You need to cut minimum 1.6 60 foots to take advantage of your power and nail your shifts a minimum of 6700 rpm.
6 speed is harder to dial in vs auto, I know. It's also more rewarding IMO.
You need a proper clutch(ditch the LS7) that will hold 5,000+ rpm launches, driveshaft + rear end that won't explode(12 bolt or 9 inch), and a tire to put the power to the ground(Mickey Thompson 3053S *stiffwall).
You need to cut minimum 1.6 60 foots to take advantage of your power and nail your shifts a minimum of 6700 rpm.
6 speed is harder to dial in vs auto, I know. It's also more rewarding IMO.
You need a proper clutch(ditch the LS7) that will hold 5,000+ rpm launches, driveshaft + rear end that won't explode(12 bolt or 9 inch), and a tire to put the power to the ground(Mickey Thompson 3053S *stiffwall).
02-02-2015, 04:03 PM
#69
The problem is I have cats. With 22* of overlap that's limiting me. I thought about getting a race Y pipe but I don't want to deal with the stink. I was going to do a cut out this spring but since the cats on the ARH y pipe are so close to the O2 sensors, I have to change my set up and imo it's not worth the cost right now.
02-03-2015, 06:04 AM
#70
The problem is I have cats. With 22* of overlap that's limiting me. I thought about getting a race Y pipe but I don't want to deal with the stink. I was going to do a cut out this spring but since the cats on the ARH y pipe are so close to the O2 sensors, I have to change my set up and imo it's not worth the cost right now.
02-05-2015, 04:02 AM
#72
What do you think I should do next other than heads? New light weight wheels is so expensive!
02-06-2015, 08:25 AM
#74
I see you're taking in everything that people have been telling you scotty. Lol which is good. Doug is right taking rotational weigh out of the car is problably the best bang for the buck weight mod you can do followed by taking weight off the nose.
Rotational weight is about a 4:1 ratio to static weght. So with your TTII's I can safely say within reason and from experience each one of your wheel/tires weighs 60lbs. The stock wheel/tire combo is around 45. That's 15lbs per wheel which at a min is 60lbs of extra weight you're carrying around for no reason and its almost like an extra passenger if you account for the rotating weight ratio. I made the same mistake and got wheels I thought looked badass but the car felt sluggish to me and after reseacrh I saw why. I quickly sold them and got my magnesiums they still have fat tires on them but weigh the same as stock wheels/tires even with the fatter setup.
The ls7 clutch as mentioned isnt helping either. It weighs 60lbs and hangs right off the engine the stock clutch is around 52lbs. Again more weight that isnt needed. Get the lightest clutch you can mine is 32lbs and there are even lighter ones although I feel with a cam you need something atleast 25lbs. That mod is a HUGE difference in the way the car responds.
Other than that just pay attention when buying parts. Lots of times we buy stuff because we like the look or function and never take time to notice that it keeps adding weight and eventually the car becomes a pig. Case in point, I was looking for a tunnel tq arm UMI, BMR, MWC etc all make great products. The umi and BMR had poly bushings for noise which I liked but each tipped the scales at over 30 lbs the MWC had a heim joint on the end but only weighs 18lbs and the stock is like 16. So you can guess which one I went with, I have since replaced the heim joint with a bushing and we're all good. But you can see how these things happen. I'm also now looking for LCA's BMR and UMI are very close to stock weight. MWC aluminum arms are the same price, bigger tubing to account for the material strength difference but only weigh 5 lbs as opposed to 10.
Carbon driveshaft is next on the list to drop weight. However I realize they are very expensive unless you find a classifieds deal like Doug (hio) and I did. Any aftermarket driveshaft will add rotational weight. Its not a huge deal since the MOI is small but its still there. I would stay stock until you break it in the mean time try and find carbon one.
Next thing on my list is repairing this bmr tubular k I got since its the old design that had a defect with cracking. After I do the repair it'll probably add 2-3 lbs to the k member and weigh 26-27lbs total. Which will be another 30 lbs off the nose of the car. You dont have to go nuts deleting a/c, sound deadeding, air bags etc to make the car lose weight unless you want to go really light. Careful modding will do it just fine. I also understand some mods will add weight and thats ok as long as its not done often and the hp out does the weight. A good example of this is a true dual system over a simple catback.
All these little things add up, so many people over look them and just go straight to a cam or whatever. That's the primary reason why cammed cars run what the best bolt on times are. Years ago when the cars were worth more people spent more time and money on them and thus got better parts and better results. Since they started getting cheap people have cut corners and the times reflect that. If you look at people who run the best times you find they pay careful attention to rotating weight and other parasitic loss items. I have done a few other things to mine to cut down that stuff if you have any questions feel free to pm me or HIO since I followed his examples with my car lol thugh not to quite the extremes
Dan
Rotational weight is about a 4:1 ratio to static weght. So with your TTII's I can safely say within reason and from experience each one of your wheel/tires weighs 60lbs. The stock wheel/tire combo is around 45. That's 15lbs per wheel which at a min is 60lbs of extra weight you're carrying around for no reason and its almost like an extra passenger if you account for the rotating weight ratio. I made the same mistake and got wheels I thought looked badass but the car felt sluggish to me and after reseacrh I saw why. I quickly sold them and got my magnesiums they still have fat tires on them but weigh the same as stock wheels/tires even with the fatter setup.
The ls7 clutch as mentioned isnt helping either. It weighs 60lbs and hangs right off the engine the stock clutch is around 52lbs. Again more weight that isnt needed. Get the lightest clutch you can mine is 32lbs and there are even lighter ones although I feel with a cam you need something atleast 25lbs. That mod is a HUGE difference in the way the car responds.
Other than that just pay attention when buying parts. Lots of times we buy stuff because we like the look or function and never take time to notice that it keeps adding weight and eventually the car becomes a pig. Case in point, I was looking for a tunnel tq arm UMI, BMR, MWC etc all make great products. The umi and BMR had poly bushings for noise which I liked but each tipped the scales at over 30 lbs the MWC had a heim joint on the end but only weighs 18lbs and the stock is like 16. So you can guess which one I went with, I have since replaced the heim joint with a bushing and we're all good. But you can see how these things happen. I'm also now looking for LCA's BMR and UMI are very close to stock weight. MWC aluminum arms are the same price, bigger tubing to account for the material strength difference but only weigh 5 lbs as opposed to 10.
Carbon driveshaft is next on the list to drop weight. However I realize they are very expensive unless you find a classifieds deal like Doug (hio) and I did. Any aftermarket driveshaft will add rotational weight. Its not a huge deal since the MOI is small but its still there. I would stay stock until you break it in the mean time try and find carbon one.
Next thing on my list is repairing this bmr tubular k I got since its the old design that had a defect with cracking. After I do the repair it'll probably add 2-3 lbs to the k member and weigh 26-27lbs total. Which will be another 30 lbs off the nose of the car. You dont have to go nuts deleting a/c, sound deadeding, air bags etc to make the car lose weight unless you want to go really light. Careful modding will do it just fine. I also understand some mods will add weight and thats ok as long as its not done often and the hp out does the weight. A good example of this is a true dual system over a simple catback.
All these little things add up, so many people over look them and just go straight to a cam or whatever. That's the primary reason why cammed cars run what the best bolt on times are. Years ago when the cars were worth more people spent more time and money on them and thus got better parts and better results. Since they started getting cheap people have cut corners and the times reflect that. If you look at people who run the best times you find they pay careful attention to rotating weight and other parasitic loss items. I have done a few other things to mine to cut down that stuff if you have any questions feel free to pm me or HIO since I followed his examples with my car lol thugh not to quite the extremes
Dan
02-06-2015, 07:24 PM
#76
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Good post Dan......you're always better at splainin **** than me..lol
From what i understand the effects of rotating mass varies depending on where it is and how fast it's turning. For example 5lbs off your crank is > 5lb off your wheels.
From what i understand the effects of rotating mass varies depending on where it is and how fast it's turning. For example 5lbs off your crank is > 5lb off your wheels.
03-07-2015, 04:12 PM
#80
11.61 117.9 mph 02 camaro z28 a4 texas speed magic stick 4 , yank 3600, 4.10s long tubes, 85mm air meter , drag tires and wheels, not bad for a cam only ,first time out with combo, should be able get this combo down to at least 11.40s .
Last edited by Seahawkfan; 03-07-2015 at 04:13 PM. Reason: typo
