Hi Sam,

I'm struggling with choices and information overload trying to decide on a shock/spring package for my 94 Formula. I'm considering the Hotchkis 1904 springs 285-525lb frt/100-140lb rear since they're only an inch drop and similar characteristics to factory ride. Would these SLP-Bilsteins be a good match? No autocross or drag for this car, just a 16 year old factory susp. that needs to be improved, and better cornering/roll reduction is a plus.

 

I wish Sam still did Bilstein revalving. Not a lot of people do it anymore and the few that do want an arm and a leg.

 

Will the slp bilsteins match up well with a set of your strano springs? I am curious as to wether they compliment each other well for ride comfort and handling. Also, will they stand the test of time with a 1.25" drop? The first time I have one blow on me I will start regretting I didn't save up for konis. If I can save some money by getting the bilsteins, I can put more money towards other toys.

 

Good Question. X2

 

x3

I am really on the edge between strano springs combo with konis vs. bilsteins.

Especially for a summer daily driver who lives 2 hours from anything resembling a track of any kind.

The closest thing to road racing I know of is a decent exit ramp on a dry day with no one around...

 

I have Koni's on my car, there is a reason for that. Bilstein's are a good next choice, but they are not the absolute best shocks for control, or controlling a lowering springs of any serious performance potential.

Bilstein's are not designed for springs like mine, or most others. They were built with SLP Eibach's in mine which are softer and taller, and the shocks were meant to ride well first, handle well second with those springs. Are Koni's better? Yes, they are also $350+ a set more.

I won't jerk you chains, that's not my bag. If you can afford Koni's, get Koni's that's my opinion.

And here's a tidbit that folks seem to ignore. The car has no clue where/how it's being driven. Shocks damp mass and spring rate, they have to do that on the street as much as on a race track. Do racers want better control and tend to use better shocks? Yes, but that doesn't preclude you from wanting good performance either, does it? I mean if you don't drag race, don't you still want more power? Folks want better brakes even if they don't road-race, right? I'm not sure why that stops when talking about suspension? BMW M3's for instance, handle really well stock, most folks who buy them don't race either.

 

Thanks for your time, Sam. Just what I needed to hear...

 

M3's aren't race cars. People buy them for their looks and their luxurious feel as well as performance. People buy better brakes for reasons other than stopping power (slotted cross drilled look much nicer than blanks). People buy HP mods because they want to go faster. Track or street...doesn't matter.

People buy struts and springs for many reasons, not just the ones that you feel they should be purhased for. We don't need lectures on this everytime. Couldn't it be possible that a simple yes or no would be sufficient? Would you rather come off like a "you guys don't know a thing...I am the only one who knows what they are talking about" kind of guy? It's not a good feeling when, as a customer, you are made to feel stupid for asking any questions in the first place.

I have no doubt that you have great knowledge but there are ways of conveying that knowledge that will ultimately decide wether you are a good salesman or a great salesman.

All I wanted to know was if the bilsteins would compliment the strano springs. A simple yes or no and a choice of springs to go with either of the struts would have been perfect but I got a lecture on how konis are what you use and they are the best on street and track instead. What I didn't get was a suggestion of which springs would be better suited for slp bilsteins.

If slp bilsteins are my ONLY option, what set of lowering springs would be best paired with those struts? I guess strano springs are an indefinite NO since I cannot afford 750 dollar struts.

Another question for you Sam...when developing your springs, did you design them to only work with the konis? It would seem as though they are incompatible with any other manufacturers.

 

You know, I don't know how I should react when I'm chastised for trying to explain things. It's a little mind-boggling to me.... but then some folks don't care to know why things are the way they are I guess. So I'm very sorry for having taken the time to try and shine some light on the subject for you.

It's pretty clear to me you don't quite understand how shocks work. I did do my springs on my car, which has Koni's on it. Are my springs "incompatible" with other shocks. No, and I sell other shocks. In fact, I think this thread was me letting folks know I have SLP Bilstein's for $409.99 shipped, it is not?

Further, there are springs out there that are even stiffer and shorter than mine, both things with require more--not less--damping. Are those details that don't matter? They matter to me, because I think folks should have some understand how shocks differ.

Simple answers don't exist when we are talking about something as complicated as suspension. Frankly I cannot please everyone, I know that. I try, and it pains me when people think I should be able to read their mind, or jump me for not answering in a way they feel is appropriate, or in a way that gives them the warm fuzzies. My job is setting up cars and selling the parts to do it, along with the advice to do it well for the customer's needs. I can't say "no" that shock isn't right, because the fact is if you can't spend Koni money, or don't want to, then the next best choice then does become right.

I know M3's aren't race cars. You proved my point. Folks buy them because of the way they drive (well those that aren't just posers do anyway). They aren't racing them, and that was to show that a car doesn't need to be "raced" for the owner to enjoy the benefits of a good suspension.

 

Did you not get your question answered? I'm not lecturing, I'm trying to answer questions and educate. If you don't want to learn, then don't ask the question, and do not bitch at me for answering the questions. Nobody is holding a gun to head forcing you to read anything I write.

So again, sooooo sorry for having hurt you feelings (though I'm not sure how). Here's the answer I guess you were looking for given the fact you now say you can't afford Koni's: Buy the Bilstein's the are the next best choice. What springs? Well, that would depend on the use but I don't want to run the risk of lecturing you and apparently trying to make you feel stupid by having the temerity to explain.

 

First the springs support the weight of the vehicle. Sam picked rates that support the vehicle while lowering ride height. Most aftermarket shocks are designed around stock spring specs. Now some manufacturers will build kits with matching springs and appropriately valved shocks. The problem is that very few good quality shock choices exist for the 4th gen F body. The AGX's are fine with soft spring rates but one paired with stiff springs don't usually last very long. Tokico doesn't make an adjustable front shock for the 4th gen and the Blues are craptastic. That basically leaves Koni as the only manufacturer who builds a front shock for the 4th gen that works with a broad range of spring rates.

 

His answer seemed pretty clear and honest

 

In short, it seems a though the konis are being sold as opposed to laying out options for other products being sold. As in bilstein slp's...the topic of the thread. I am not bitching and my feelings aren't hurt. That is far from the case.

I know about how important it is to have shocks that perform equally well, if not better than, the springs that will work in conjuction with them. In the end, it looks like slp bilsteins will not match any set of springs which lower the car. Can I get that verified?

If that is the case, then I will have no choice but to get the konis since I can't stand the stock "stance".

Quick thought. Maybe the reason there aren't many great shocks made for our 4th gens is because our cars weren't meant for autocross like performance and are more geared towards straight line drag runs. If bilsteins don't fit that bill then I guess they are only suited as minor upgrades for the stock struts.

Now I wonder, why get konis and springs when I can save a little more and get a full coilover setup? I guess it never ends. And this is a question for another thread. That is, unless Sam hasn't had his feelings hurt and blacklisted me from all his knowledge may have to offer. Let's hug it out Sam!

 

i just orderd a set of the SLP bilsteins to go with my strano springs, hope they work well with eachother as i can not afford the koni's lol. but they HAVE to be better than stock wich are what my struts are now...

 

Some may say that you must not give a crap about how your car handles. I say bold move to act in spite of gods words. May he have mercy on your soul! LOL. I'm just messin'. No hard feelings.

 

Misterskeet, plan on spending $2000+ for a real coilover setup for a 4th gen. That makes Koni's seem pretty inexpensive.

 

We are talkin about qa1? I was just looking at qa1s. They look like a pretty nice setup. I also read another thread about how Sam has won all kinds of championships on just konis and springs so that would seem like anything other than konis and strano springs would be a waste of time and money for those serious about performance. Everybody likes to win trophies! I know I do.

 

QA1's, no matter what they advertise, are drag shocks for our cars. I've been in a QA1 equipped car, it was a total joke compared to my car with just konis an nothing else.

 

why does everyone love coilovers so much? aren't our fronts technically coilovers to begin with? just because you can adjust ride height doesn't mean it's going to do anything better than a plain old spring/shock setup.

do you honestly think an off the shelf QA1 coilover setup, with shocks valved for ~275-325 in/lb springs, designed specifically for drag racing, is going to out-handle the strano/koni setup? you might do better on an autox track completely stock.

does it make it a waste of money that i put 1 3/4" headers on my car if i'm serious about performance, when the guy who won some championships had 1 7/8" headers on his car? why can't someone put a decent setup on their car instead of the absolute best if they don't have the money?

 

Just ordered a set a few seconds ago :-)