4L60E fluid and torque converter not locking up
10-10-2013, 09:04 AM
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4L60E fluid and torque converter not locking up My car has a TCI3600 stall in it, and I got it dyno tuned about 2 months ago. The fluid level was full hot and the converter was locking up fine. Well now my torque converter isn't locking up once it gets hot. It will every once in awhile when its cold though. But I checked the fluid when my trans temp gauge was around 220-240 degrees and the level is barely touching the warm crosshatches. I'm 99.9% sure that's why my converter isn't locking up, but what would cause the fluid level to go down? It's not burnt and doesn't smell weird, and I haven't had any trans problems. I don't know much about transmissions so your input is greatly appreciated!
10-10-2013, 09:41 AM
#2
That seems a little on the hot side for the fluid if it's accurate. I try to keep mine under 190*.
Did the stall just go in or was some other trans work just done? It takes time for the fluid to work it's way into everything and fill the converter.
Any leaks around the trans cooler? Quality fluid? Any signs it's been running out around the yoke seal?
Did the stall just go in or was some other trans work just done? It takes time for the fluid to work it's way into everything and fill the converter.
Any leaks around the trans cooler? Quality fluid? Any signs it's been running out around the yoke seal?
10-10-2013, 10:02 AM
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It's accurate, heck one night I was doin a lot of stop and go driving and the temps reached almost 300 but the water temp was at like 210 too. I got my motor done only, so there was no other trans work done. And the stall is new and only has about 700 miles on it since the build since I don't drive it much. Maybe the fluid finally finished filling the trans and converter? I'm going to add some fluid today.
10-10-2013, 10:41 AM
#4
Do you have a large aftermarket transmission cooler on it? If not you should get one immediately. I would change the fluid too, if it got up to 300* I would want fresh fluid in it.
If the temps are running over 240* very long you are too hot and it will reduce life of the transmission. Heat is the biggest killer of transmissions.
If the temps are running over 240* very long you are too hot and it will reduce life of the transmission. Heat is the biggest killer of transmissions.
10-10-2013, 01:11 PM
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I don't have a cooler on it yet. I haven't gotten one cuz money has been tight. But it usually is anywhere from 180-220 degrees depending on how much city driving. Whats the best cooler for the money?
10-10-2013, 01:54 PM
#6
I am not sure what will work for your application, my Chevelle has much more room and much more direct airflow.
In general I would try to get the one with the highest GVW rating that I could fit (at least 18k lbs, but shoot for higher)
Here is something I stumbled across:
from TCI website
"How hot is too hot? The ideal operating temperature for automatic transmission fluid is between 175 and 225° F. At approximately 240° F, important additives in the ATF begin to cook. The result is the formation of varnish inside the transmission. At approximately 260° F, internal transmission seals (which are typically manufactured from a polyacrylate material) begin to harden. The end results are leaks, both internal and external, simply because the seals lose their elasticity. At approximately 295° F, transmission clutch plates begin to slip because the oil is breaking down further. At approximately 315° F, seals and clutches effectively burn out. Carbon forms in the oil and for all intents and purposes, the transmission is junk. Just for your information, a typical transmission will die within 2000 miles if subjected to 300° F+ heat."
In general I would try to get the one with the highest GVW rating that I could fit (at least 18k lbs, but shoot for higher)
Here is something I stumbled across:
from TCI website
"How hot is too hot? The ideal operating temperature for automatic transmission fluid is between 175 and 225° F. At approximately 240° F, important additives in the ATF begin to cook. The result is the formation of varnish inside the transmission. At approximately 260° F, internal transmission seals (which are typically manufactured from a polyacrylate material) begin to harden. The end results are leaks, both internal and external, simply because the seals lose their elasticity. At approximately 295° F, transmission clutch plates begin to slip because the oil is breaking down further. At approximately 315° F, seals and clutches effectively burn out. Carbon forms in the oil and for all intents and purposes, the transmission is junk. Just for your information, a typical transmission will die within 2000 miles if subjected to 300° F+ heat."
10-10-2013, 04:23 PM
#7
I mounted a Hayden 679 in front of the condenser when I upgraded my converter this summer and with bypassing the radiator, I average 140* with an in pan temp sensor. This cooler is rated at 30K GVW and only runs around $65 from Summit. Comes with some hose, worm clamps and kit to mount it to the radiator/condensor. I did have to pick up a little extra hose at the auto store to pumb it the way I did through the air dam though. An extra cooler should always be installed with a higher stall, the stock cooler just can't handle it.
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10-10-2013, 04:49 PM
#8
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As Thunderstuck hinted, you ABSOLUTELY MUST install a cooler when running a higher stall converter. If the trans has hit 300F+ it might already be cooked, both literally and figuratively.
Was the converter locked when it was dyno tuned. If yes, that is a NO NO with anything less than a $1000+ triple-disk converter. IMHO, this is the cause of your lockup problems - the lockup clutch was ruined during the dyno run. IIRC, the TCI3600 has a very small/weak lockup clutch. I had that converter briefly and it was also exceptionally loose (in a bad way) on the street; that looseness is also contributing to your heat problems.
Was the converter locked when it was dyno tuned. If yes, that is a NO NO with anything less than a $1000+ triple-disk converter. IMHO, this is the cause of your lockup problems - the lockup clutch was ruined during the dyno run. IIRC, the TCI3600 has a very small/weak lockup clutch. I had that converter briefly and it was also exceptionally loose (in a bad way) on the street; that looseness is also contributing to your heat problems.
10-12-2013, 07:33 PM
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It was not locked up during the dyno pull. But I think it got to such high temps because it was low on fluid. I didn't think to check it after the build since it was full, but it had to fill all the other small places. It's running fine and locking up fine now. The fluid isn't discolored and doesn't smell. I will look into that cooler from Summit, seems like it will help A LOT. But either way, I plan on getting a new transmission along with a rear end with in a year lol. I still want to make it last though.
10-12-2013, 08:34 PM
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Yeah I probably will since I'll be right there since that fluid's been at 300F+. I'm glad you guys pointed me towards the cooler's on Summit! Such a good deal!
04-12-2016, 11:22 PM
#14
300 degrees?! Holy **** I've been over here freaking about these b&m trans sensors not turning my fan on and it getting up to 195*.
Then I'm reading on Google and here's a post from 2013......300*?!?!!!!!
I feel a lot better.
Thank you
Then I'm reading on Google and here's a post from 2013......300*?!?!!!!!
I feel a lot better.
Thank you
04-17-2016, 08:33 AM
#15
TECH Resident
You PROBABLY burnt the fluid (@ 300F) and roached the converter..
Sara (2001 Z28) has a B&M 24K cooler, and she stays "one cool mama"
Last edited by mrvedit; 04-18-2016 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Fix formatting
