Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

What did I not answer your question fast enough for you? So that makes me an *******?

I think you got butthurt when this topic came up several years ago and I made factual statements based on real world experience and not internet conjecture as so often happens here.

Let's see,
what other sponsors are here answering tech questions and helping the enthusiast with REAL info, and then whether it relates to their product or not?

I don't see any besides myself. So if that makes me an *******, I guess I am one.

What other sponsors will call out the BS when a vendor (sponsor or not) is putting out junk product?

I actually build converters in my shop now because I got tired of cutting open converters and seeing the customer had paid for something they did not receive.

A $10 core is what almost all of these converters begin with. There is no difference between the 245mm cores TCI uses and whatever other company you get one from.
As I stated previously the fact that the TCI core has tig welded fins shows it's LEAPS and BOUNDS better than most of the other converters I've seen.

So all the guys here who want to see the "internals" of the TCI like they somehow bought a lesser quality core to begin with, are barking up the wrong tree.

Unless you get into a billet or hand fabbed stator ($2000 converters) you're dealing with the same parts pretty much across the board, it's just the quality of the work done to the converter that differs.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

So all the guys here who want to see the "internals" of the TCI like they somehow bought a lesser quality core to begin with, are barking up the wrong tree.

Unless you get into a billet or hand fabbed stator ($2000 converters) you're dealing with the same parts pretty much across the board, it's just the quality of the work done to the converter that differs.[/QUOTE]

SO you (jake) dont bother showing photos to prove your point, thx man. does tci & everybody use torrington bearings? furnace brazed? new flanged impeller hubs? everybody uses the same parts???? I DOUBT THAT!

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

SO you (jake) dont bother showing photos to prove your point, thx man. does tci & everybody use torrington bearings? furnace brazed? new flanged impeller hubs? everybody uses the same parts???? I DOUBT THAT![/QUOTE]

I do have a business to run and I have posted pics of inferior converters here before. Some of the threads were killed because they belonged to other sponsors on here.

I build converters and know the various suppliers to the industry, so YES most of the builders are using parts from 3-4 common suppliers and a flanged hub is COMMON. Not a requirement, once you weld a ballooning plate on, there's no advantage gained by a flanged hub except ease of install.
When you take a common converter core, you are going to use a NEW hub anyway as it doesn't have a hub on it that fits the trans you are building it for.




Furnace brazing is another thing that is often advertised and lacking that we've seen. Depending on the converters use they should be tig welded and/or furnace brazed for performance use.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

And converters use Torrington bearings stock, you can easily replace the thrust washer used in some locations with a Torrington by machining the pieces, very much like we do in several locations in a transmission.

The kits I posted are from a popular converter parts supplier. The 2nd picture is of a kit used to make a 245mm converter, non billet inertia ring type converter. The first kit is a TH350/400 forged cover kit from the same place.

There are many options for how you build one, but the pump, turbine, and stator pieces used on most converters all come from a stock core. So the "internals" aren't going to look much different to the casual observer.

You may be able to see the furnace brazing, tig welding, some machining done to the stator, and a billet cover.
You're still going to be looking at a GM aluminum cast stator (that could be configured as sprag type, spragless, diode, etc. and a turbine and pump. It's not going to appear much different otherwise no matter where it came from until you get into some pretty high dollar stuff.

mrvedit

Jake, I think I speak for many members here when I say that we really appreciate your informative and detailed posts. Both here and on other forums. Thank you for taking the time to help us and share your knowledge.
Ted.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

jake thx for the photos of parts you use however do you build tci converters? are you really saying a $500 tci is equal to an $800 plus xyz sponsors converter???????????? again im not buying what your shovelin. ps im guessing since your sig has something to do with genuine gm parts , you believe aftermarket parts arent any better.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure how you come up with my signature stating GM parts or aftermarket parts are better. It states we build GM automatics, and that we design some of our own (that would be aftermarket) parts not just installers of other companies parts like many vendors.

A $500 TCI converter may or may not be better than a $800 vendors converter.
It depends...
And no I don't work for TCI but yes I do build TCI converters when they come into my shop and need a cut and clean or restall.

There are ALREADY pictures in this thread of a TCI converter. And those pictures, showing a damaged converter, did show a converter that had tig welded fins.

I've cut apart $1100 and $1400 converters from a popular vendor here that DID NOT have welded fins. More than once.

I've also cut apart $700 converters from another popular vendor here that did not, but they were furnace brazed, and not advertised as tig welded.

I have 2 TCI units apart in the shop right now. Both had welded fins and look similar to the pictures posted previously.

There's more to a converter than whether they fins are welded or not and furnace brazed or not. But there's a helluva lot more than a fancy billet cover and box as well.

I'm NOT a TCI nuthugger. I buy some product from TCI and some things they do really well, some things they do not. They are one of the biggest names and long standing companies in the performance transmission industry. I believe they have had their ups and downs and I've personally met Bill Taylor (the founder).
I'm not here to say their converters are better or worse, jsut that what I see pictured here isn't bad and is better than I've seen from some popular companies here.

sepsis

iTrader: (7)

Jake, have you cut into a PTC converter?

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Yes.

At some point in time I've seen the inside of most of the converters out there.

Edge, Yank, Circle-D, PTC, TCS, TCI, etc.

That's kinda the point of my posts now and in the past. Building a converter is a machining and welding operation for the most part.
You take a POS converter from a POS car, cut it open, machine off the drive hub, turbine hub, weld new pieces on, select the pump and stator combo you need for the build, stack the converter, set build height, weld the pump to the cover, leak check it, balance it and away it goes.

There is some blackmagic voodoo to the selection of parts used and mods made to those parts that relies heavily on experience ( and proper accurate info from the customer) but there aren't usually any really special pieces that go in a $200-$1000 converter. ANYBODY can buy the pieces to do this. It's the machinery and tooling that costs big bucks.
Serious lathes and welders. The balancer alone is $12K.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

The pump to the left of the billet cover setup is a TCI piece. Notice the tig welded fins...

Lathe just to cut converters open.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I never called any names, why assume? However, I owe you about as much as this website owes me.....absolutely nothing. I'm here because I want to be. I answer tech questions to further this hobby and keep it from dying, no more, no less.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Your original post asked for me to expand on why a non-billet cover converter would 60' harder than a billet cover.

I was offline most of the day yesterday enjoying the Super Bowl and resting since I typically work 7 days a week, 12+ hrs a day. Responding to your question wasn't high on my priority list.

Then today was busy helping customers, taking orders, and building transmissions. You know, actually doing what an expert in this field does. Not an internet like yourself.

So yes I am an ******* but I would prefer to be that than a whiny bitch like you who gets upset because the big bad transmission guy hurt your little feelings by not answering your question.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Guys, this has been an informative thread and useful for dispelling a widely believed myth: "TCI converters are junk." Let's keep it on topic and leave aside the ad hominem.

sepsis

iTrader: (7)

What did you think of the quality from PTC?

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

PTC makes a quality converter.
They make them under a couple of different brands...

Kenny Ford used to work for TCI...

There converters look pretty much the same as any other inside. Again, same type of cores, same components used as everyone else. Their more expensive stuff is tig welded.

mrvedit

What I find interesting is that the OP asked about the "TCI ULTIMATE Street Fighter". Perhaps no one else looked it up, that it sells for $975! It is not one of their $350 "Breakaway" converters that I would avoid.
Given that several posts mentioned having good luck with various better TCI converters, I suspect getting the "Ultimate Street Fighter" at even $500 might be a good deal.

sepsis

iTrader: (7)

I'm glad because I just installed one of their SS converters in my car.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
It's well known a good converter is one of the best upgrades you can do for ET and fun.

A lot of people get emotional over converter brands. I don't. I have seen lots of different ones apart and I know where the parts come from, and how they go together.

I don't have the experience of Kenny Ford, Lenny at Ultimate, Chance, or any of the other guys who have been in the industry forever but I do have more than 99% of the people who post here.

I've been saying it for years, there are LOTS of quality converters out there. There is also too much shady BS in the industry as well because the enthusiast isn't likely to see the inside of their converter and if they are, usually they wouldn't know what they are looking at.

The turbine, pump, and stators used in even the most expensive converters come out of cores obtained from wrecking yards and core suppliers.
There are some exceptions to this (mostly with 8" converters) but there are virtually no converters made from all new parts. Even the parts counter at your dealership will give you a reman'd converter, not new in most cases.

I will take some video and pics of a converter build from start to finish sometime when I have time. Starting with an ugly core and finishing with a billet cover badboy.
I'm sure Greg at FTI, Chris at C-D, or one of the others could do that here as well.

What the consumer is paying for is the knowledge of the converter builder, the risk they took to buy the $100K+ in equipment to do it, and the quality of the build.
Some $600 converters are made using $60 in parts....

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

while i appreciate your responce, im still hearing "everybody uses the exact same parts" hmmmmm so new flanged impeller hub & new turbine spline really means parts straight out of a junkyard? all furnaced brazed means no big deal everybody does that. oversized billet lockup plate , billet cover , i believe 3 torrington bearings, oh thats all common stuff found in the least expensive converters? im guessing no.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I've stated it pretty clearly...

A converter starts with a core or several that are cut apart for the internals.
It's usually not configured to go behind the V8 engines and transmissions we are using them I'm.
So a NEW hub and other pieces are used, and those pieces come from a handful of vendors used by everyone building converters. Sonnax being one supplier.
Up to the point of the core and parts used to rebuild/modify the converter, there isn't much difference.
The difference becomes what all work is done during the build.
Some vendors make claims about the work being done, but when you cut it open, it's not there.
The TCI unit pictured and the couple I have apart currently do at least have that done.