jalfredprufrock

Hi all...how does the following look for rebuild (a '95 4l60e)...will all this work together??

This is one great forum, btw...wish I'd found it a looonng time ago

Items:
New AC DELCO 4L60E 13-Vane Pump Rotor Kit 24219539

Sonnax 4L60E 4L65E 4L70E Trans Forward / Pinless 1-2 3-4 Accumulator Piston Kit

TH700R4 700-R4 4L60 4L60E Transmission Chevy Forward 29 Element Sprag

700R4 4L60E 87-up Low Reverse Sprag Borg Warner 700-R4 4L60-E 4L60 Transmission

Transgo 4L60E Boost Valve Kit HD & HP .500” Dia. ’93 4L60E-BOOST

4L60E 4L60 700R4 TRANSMISSION 3-4 Clutch - Band Accumulator Check Ball Capsule

700R4 700 4L60 4L60E 4L65E 4 Pinion Rear Rebuilt Planet 1982-On Planetary Chevy

GM 4L60E 4L65E 4L70E TORLON Plastic Valve Body Check ***** .250" 10-Piece Kit

TransGo Valve Body Separator Plates 46-PLT-95

Sonnax Smart Shell

Transgo SK 4L60E Shift Kit


…plus

1. ‘vette servo
2. reman stock torque convertor
3. low/reverse piston (correct casting number)
4. rebuild kit from transmissionbench
5. a cooler

Is this a grenade in the making? Or something that oughta work? Sorry for the long post!!

jl

clinebarger

I would skip the pinless piston in the 2nd accumulator unless you run stock springs, The TG springs are bad about breakage......Without the pin to control the mess, The accumulator housing will get tore up.

The Servo springs & TCC Regulator Valve are the only 2 items in the SK I would use. (personal opinion).
Measure the TCC regulator valve diameter BEFORE you order the SK. If it measures .441".....The SK valve will work, If it measures .472".....The SK is about worthless to you.
If you have a oversize regulator valve.....You will need Trans Go 4L6-ISO-3.
Run GM 8681195 as the inner cushion spring in the servo if you decide to not use the SK.
I can provide plate hole sizes if needed.

Replace the torrington bearings.

Sonnax .490" (4L60E-LB1) boost valve would be my recommendation, Don't like using a steel boost sleeve on 4L60E's

You can re-seat the 3rd accumulator check ball with a flat nosed punch if a small amount of leakage is found.

Stay away from rebuilt carriers, Here's a new "high speed"
What 3-4 clutch set-up are you going to use?

PBA

Stay with the 10 vane pump here unless you are going to use the back half from a 1997 and up pump that has the 13V ID on it. If you use the TransGo Shift kit, I can give you the feed hole sizes I recommend for all of my Heavy Duty applications, probably similar to Clinebarger. If you use the TransGo setup, do not use the Sonnax Band Accumulator Check Ball Capsule. The factory one that is in there now is fine, just re-seat it as Clinebarger suggested. Only use the Borg Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 band and the Borg Warner Hi-Energy 3-4 clutch setup, for the best in terms of longevity. A minimum of 7 clutches here, but I recommend an 8 clutch setup for HD use. Set the 3-4 clutch clearance at .020" - .035", when using the Corvette servo. Check the planetaries for wear. If they check out ok, then reuse them. Too many people replace "good" planetaries for no reason. Why are you replacing the low/reverse piston???

jalfredprufrock

Thanks for the very helpful replies guys!! I'll certainly take your advice...I'm looking to a basic rebuild with a few upgrades (but when the fever takes hold!!), not u-joint shattering shifts and the like ...like I had with my 74 Nova from long ago.
I have a new GM check ball capsule...I was going to change it as a matter of course. I'd certainly appreciate your feed hole size recommendations! And I'll go with the Borg Warner clutch setup, too...how would I get my 3-4 clutch clearance...by mixing steel thicknesses? See how little I know And does the BG clutch setup come as a set from a supplier (I use eBay for most of my purchases....shipping tends to be faster). I live in a remote area in northern Labrador...town called Nain, so it can take a long time to get parts here...my approach is to try and anticipate failure areas, and coming on here has really opened mine eyes!!

jalfredprufrock

The ATSG manual says to replace the low/reverse piston with one having the correct casting number...I have no way of knowing whether the correct casting is in there, so I picked up one with the correct number...maybe too cautious.

PBA

I have never seen or heard of a problem with the L/R piston ever, except from ATSG

clinebarger

Plate hole sizes on a stock vehicle with a Vette Servo.

2nd.....(Stock Converter) .073"-.076."
3rd..... .099"-.110"
4th.... .099"-.110"
Band Release.... .086"-.093"

PBA's recommendations may be different, But I have had great luck with these sizes on work trucks, Set the 3-4 clearance to .020" & Band clearance to .030"-.040".....Get the band &/or 3-4 clutch clearances to loose & you may run into a timing issue that you can feel. The 2-3 shift will never be absolutely perfect but you don't want a bad "Cut-Loose" or a "Tie-Up".

PBA

I use similar hole sizes here when using the Corvette servo.
2nd = .072" - .076"
3rd = .110"
4th = .110"
Band Release = .082" TransGo separator plates have a .082" Band Release hole to start with.
This is for Heavy Duty applications.

jalfredprufrock

Thanks clinebarger and pba...much appreciated.
The ATSG manual placed a bit of emphasis on using the L/R piston with the correct part number, so I bit!
Looking forward to getting started...oughta be fun

mrvedit

Getting the band clearance down to .030 - .040 might be difficult because a stock pin and new band typically gives around .060 clearance. The Transgo HD2 kit comes with gold-colored servo rings which will reduce the clearance. One ring typically gets you into the .040 to .050 range.
Clinebarger: how do you get the clearance that low?

clinebarger

GM has longer pins than the run-of-the-mill 2-groove 4L60E pin, I keep the Sonnax extra long pin in stock just in case.

jalfredprufrock

Is it sensible to add the following to my rebuild attempt:

- Sonnax Heavy Duty 2-3 shift valve

- Sonnax 4th Gear Super Hold Dual Servo Kit

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

jl

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

I build these units on the regular. I've been building them for over 15 years and I pretty much stay with one on my bench. The advice I'm about to give you is personal experience, not opinions from things I've read. With that being said:

Get yourself a rebuild manual.

Stay away from the sonnax smart shell. It's weaker than the beast. I've had them break and get all twisted up. I only use the beast and I don't have issues.

Don't use superior 2nd gear billet servo. It's very harsh shifting.
I'm trying the sonnax one on my next couple of builds.
Use the sonnax sealed 2-4 band pin. Set band clearance to the tight side of factory specs. If you set it up too tight it will wear the band. Too loose and you'll have delayed shifts and rev limiter hitting issues

I like the z pack clutches. They hold up will. Another good clutch pack is high energy with heat treated black steels. Kolene

Skip the pump kit unless it's worn and a high mileage unit. In that case get a new pump or rebuilt pump. Add the sonnax pressure spring.

I use the .500 boost valve and every build. You could do the .490 if your not making tuning changes if you want it to shift the same. The .500 with make it shift more Chrisp.

I use the plastic (torlon) check ***** every build

I use coated bearings where applicable

Don't use aftermarket planets. Check your stock ones. Chances are they are still good. If you change them use factory rebuilt or new 5 pinion. Never aftermarket. They break, they are made of a cheaper metal.

I use the pinless accumulator Pistons. I like them.


I only change the sprag in the input drum to a dual caged element.

Only ac Delco separator plate

If you have 100k miles or more replace the electronics in it. Save you a headache.

I don't install shift kits. I feel that deviates too far from the factory calibration and causing more bindup during shifts which causes premature clutch wear and parts breakage.

My theory is this: upgrade the hard parts that are prone to breakage and cut down on the slippage but don't eliminate it all the way. If you eliminate the slip completely then you start breaking hard parts. These units are pretty weak.

If your making a lot of power, then you need to reinforce in the input drum or even use the smart tech shell. Those are really nice, I just hate screwing all the screws in the end cap instead of a snap ring lol. You can add one more clutch plate to the stack with full thickness clutches and steels with that drum.

clinebarger

Broken "Beast" Sunshell, Not the first one I've ran across.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

Nothing is unbreakable. Search the Internet and you can find anything has failed. I'm just saying what has worked for me. The only two smart shells I ran failed in both cars I built trans for. The both run in the 10's and full weight 4th gens on nitrous. Changed to a beast and never broke another shell. Then I had two other cars running 9.20-9.50 and they never broke a beast. If you compare the area in that picture of a beast compared to a smart shell, you'll see a smart shell is thinner in that area so I'd have to assume that a smart shell would have failed in whatever application that shell was in.

jalfredprufrock

Thanks much for the responses.

I've also read about the Beast sometimes having a 'wobble'.

What about these two, though

- Sonnax Heavy Duty 2-3 shift valve

- Sonnax 4th Gear Super Hold Dual Servo Kit

Looking forward to any input!

jl

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

I haven't seen that and I've used probably 60+ of those shells. I spin the assembly in the case when I get it built that far to check and make sure everything turns freely and spins true. I'm just stating my experience. If anyone doesn't want to use a beast, then don't. I've had good luck with them, The smart shell failed the first two times I used one in two different cars. When that happens and I never had a beast failure before, that kinda seals the deal for me with never using them again. If your not making any decent power (one of these cars made 750 to the wheels) then by by all means, try it.

The 2-3 valve is a worthwhile addition.

I put the billet 2-4 servo in my hi power builds. I had been using the superior version but the two builds I have to do right now I'm trying out the sonnax version. Along with a smart tech input drum in one of the builds. The other build is getting a input drum reinforcement kit.

clinebarger

That was from a 4L65E behind a stock LQ9 in a Silverado SS, Lasted right at 50,000 which is half of what the stock GM shell went before the 3-4's burnt down, The stock shell had some pretty good spline wear & would have stripped before to long. I installed a 093 2nd Piston.....But the 1-2 was pretty mild with the "B" code accumulator that I installed during the build, I reused the Borg Warner band during the warranty build & didn't change the clearance, The 1-2 was still pretty mild during the test drive with a seasoned band.
The Reverse Input clutches looked new as did the lugs on the shell.....I didn't see any evidence of him neutral dropping it into Reverse.

I realize the Beast is thicker all over, But thicker doesn't necessarily mean stronger or less prone to fatigue if the metallurgy flawed. It appears to me that the broken Beasts I've ran across are from fatigue.

The other Beast I had fail on a trans I built was in a 1995 4.3L S-10 Blazer with a 553 piston that made it 83,xxx miles. Sure the dipshit owner (My BIL) gives it hell.....That is WHY I installed a Beast & I didn't think he could break it with 180 HP.

This may be a Duty Cycle debate, Thanks for keeping it civil!!!