Budget build 4l80 must haves?
09-08-2017, 07:19 AM
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Budget build 4l80 must haves? I just picked up a junkyard 80 and I'm rebuilding it before I try to run it in the car. It's been about 4 yrs since I've fooled with an 80 so I'm looking for some advice. As of right now I'm plannin a basic rebuild with a few upgrades. I'll be dual feeding the direct clutch, sonnax boost valve, and rollerize the output. What are other must dos for the 80 in a performance application? I can't find all the info in one place as to the must haves for an 80 rebuild so I figured I'd try to get them all in one place for future reference.
09-08-2017, 10:36 AM
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I would say the car makes around 400 whp now. Will eventually see up to 150 progressive kit. I know a basically stock rebuild will be fine for this but I would like to have room to grow later. I'm sure I'll eventually need some billet parts, but that's not in the budget this time around.
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09-08-2017, 08:19 PM
#8
TECH Fanatic
Rollerize the the Forward Hub to Direct Drum thrust face & reduce the Direct Drum to Forward Hub end-play to .003" to .008".
I use a Ford AXOD final drive sun gear bearing....Part# E6DZ-7F404-A
Ford has discontinued this part, But Green Sales has them in stock Phone# 1-800-543-4959.
This requires machining the forward hub thrust face & careful measurement to set the end-play!
Ditch the flimsy 4L80E Intermediate return spring retainer in favor of a much stouter TH400 piece, Carefully pry the springs off the 4L80E retainer & reuse the springs.
Dual Feeding the Directs requires the use of "High Rate" direct piston return springs in my opinion to keep downshifts clean & prevent direct piston creep at high rpm in 1st.
I don't like using high rate springs in the 4L80E spring cage assembly as I've seen the aftermath of the springs laying over & distorting the **** out of the bottom spring retainer.
I recommend running a Aluminum TH400 piston with cast-in spring pockets along with a TH400 top spring retainer.
Using this piston allows you to machine the piston to run a extra friction/Get the clutch clearance just right.
Every 4L80E direct drum I've ever seen has a Bleed Checkball in it, Locate a TH400 piston that DOES NOT have a bleed as some TH400's used a drum bleed....And some used a piston bleed.
I also drill a .055" bleed hole at the edge of the direct drum on units that will see high RPM.
Install a HD Intermediate Clutch Snap Ring.
Drill a .055" "Lube to Line" Bypass in the Pump Cover
Delete the 3rd & 4th Accumulator Housing with a block-off plate, Control your 3rd & 4th shift firmness with the feed orifices in the plate.
Use the Brass Thrust Washer that came from the Case Thrust between the Reaction & Output Carriers....Replacing the Plastic Thrust Washer.
Sonnax drop-in TCC Regulator Valve part#34994-01K.....Avoid the disgusted feeling of your fresh unit falling out of lock-up hot/No lock-up!
I Ream the AFL Valve Bore & install a oversized AFL Valve on EVERY 4L80E, The cheaper Trans Go kit is fine & very effective. Trans Go part# 48-ACT-TL, After your done you can sell it & get most of your money back!
A hard worked 4L80E will need ALL the Bushings replaced, Keeps the unit running on center!
Replace the AFL Filter at the end of manual valve bore, Be VERY careful not to crack the end cap during installation! Remove the shift solenoid closest to the bore plug as it gets in the way of removing the bore plug.
Set all FOUR end-play locations!
Total Rear Unit.....003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Reaction Carrier to Center Support......008"-.015"
Direct Drum to Forward Hub......003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Front unit.....005-.008" more/greater than the Rear Unit
Checking Front Unit end-play is a little tricky because the input shaft floats in the O/D Carrier.....I use shims between the Carrier & Snap Ring to remove the play, Check & adjust end-play....Then remove the shims for final assembly.
I use a Ford AXOD final drive sun gear bearing....Part# E6DZ-7F404-A
Ford has discontinued this part, But Green Sales has them in stock Phone# 1-800-543-4959.
This requires machining the forward hub thrust face & careful measurement to set the end-play!
Ditch the flimsy 4L80E Intermediate return spring retainer in favor of a much stouter TH400 piece, Carefully pry the springs off the 4L80E retainer & reuse the springs.
Dual Feeding the Directs requires the use of "High Rate" direct piston return springs in my opinion to keep downshifts clean & prevent direct piston creep at high rpm in 1st.
I don't like using high rate springs in the 4L80E spring cage assembly as I've seen the aftermath of the springs laying over & distorting the **** out of the bottom spring retainer.
I recommend running a Aluminum TH400 piston with cast-in spring pockets along with a TH400 top spring retainer.
Using this piston allows you to machine the piston to run a extra friction/Get the clutch clearance just right.
Every 4L80E direct drum I've ever seen has a Bleed Checkball in it, Locate a TH400 piston that DOES NOT have a bleed as some TH400's used a drum bleed....And some used a piston bleed.
I also drill a .055" bleed hole at the edge of the direct drum on units that will see high RPM.
Install a HD Intermediate Clutch Snap Ring.
Drill a .055" "Lube to Line" Bypass in the Pump Cover
Delete the 3rd & 4th Accumulator Housing with a block-off plate, Control your 3rd & 4th shift firmness with the feed orifices in the plate.
Use the Brass Thrust Washer that came from the Case Thrust between the Reaction & Output Carriers....Replacing the Plastic Thrust Washer.
Sonnax drop-in TCC Regulator Valve part#34994-01K.....Avoid the disgusted feeling of your fresh unit falling out of lock-up hot/No lock-up!
I Ream the AFL Valve Bore & install a oversized AFL Valve on EVERY 4L80E, The cheaper Trans Go kit is fine & very effective. Trans Go part# 48-ACT-TL, After your done you can sell it & get most of your money back!
A hard worked 4L80E will need ALL the Bushings replaced, Keeps the unit running on center!
Replace the AFL Filter at the end of manual valve bore, Be VERY careful not to crack the end cap during installation! Remove the shift solenoid closest to the bore plug as it gets in the way of removing the bore plug.
Set all FOUR end-play locations!
Total Rear Unit.....003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Reaction Carrier to Center Support......008"-.015"
Direct Drum to Forward Hub......003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Front unit.....005-.008" more/greater than the Rear Unit
Checking Front Unit end-play is a little tricky because the input shaft floats in the O/D Carrier.....I use shims between the Carrier & Snap Ring to remove the play, Check & adjust end-play....Then remove the shims for final assembly.
09-09-2017, 10:45 PM
#10
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Rollerize the the Forward Hub to Direct Drum thrust face & reduce the Direct Drum to Forward Hub end-play to .003" to .008".
I use a Ford AXOD final drive sun gear bearing....Part# E6DZ-7F404-A
Ford has discontinued this part, But Green Sales has them in stock Phone# 1-800-543-4959.
This requires machining the forward hub thrust face & careful measurement to set the end-play!
Ditch the flimsy 4L80E Intermediate return spring retainer in favor of a much stouter TH400 piece, Carefully pry the springs off the 4L80E retainer & reuse the springs.
Dual Feeding the Directs requires the use of "High Rate" direct piston return springs in my opinion to keep downshifts clean & prevent direct piston creep at high rpm in 1st.
I don't like using high rate springs in the 4L80E spring cage assembly as I've seen the aftermath of the springs laying over & distorting the **** out of the bottom spring retainer.
I recommend running a Aluminum TH400 piston with cast-in spring pockets along with a TH400 top spring retainer.
Using this piston allows you to machine the piston to run a extra friction/Get the clutch clearance just right.
Every 4L80E direct drum I've ever seen has a Bleed Checkball in it, Locate a TH400 piston that DOES NOT have a bleed as some TH400's used a drum bleed....And some used a piston bleed.
I also drill a .055" bleed hole at the edge of the direct drum on units that will see high RPM.
Install a HD Intermediate Clutch Snap Ring.
Drill a .055" "Lube to Line" Bypass in the Pump Cover
Delete the 3rd & 4th Accumulator Housing with a block-off plate, Control your 3rd & 4th shift firmness with the feed orifices in the plate.
Use the Brass Thrust Washer that came from the Case Thrust between the Reaction & Output Carriers....Replacing the Plastic Thrust Washer.
Sonnax drop-in TCC Regulator Valve part#34994-01K.....Avoid the disgusted feeling of your fresh unit falling out of lock-up hot/No lock-up!
I Ream the AFL Valve Bore & install a oversized AFL Valve on EVERY 4L80E, The cheaper Trans Go kit is fine & very effective. Trans Go part# 48-ACT-TL, After your done you can sell it & get most of your money back!
A hard worked 4L80E will need ALL the Bushings replaced, Keeps the unit running on center!
Replace the AFL Filter at the end of manual valve bore, Be VERY careful not to crack the end cap during installation! Remove the shift solenoid closest to the bore plug as it gets in the way of removing the bore plug.
Set all FOUR end-play locations!
Total Rear Unit.....003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Reaction Carrier to Center Support......008"-.015"
Direct Drum to Forward Hub......003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Front unit.....005-.008" more/greater than the Rear Unit
Checking Front Unit end-play is a little tricky because the input shaft floats in the O/D Carrier.....I use shims between the Carrier & Snap Ring to remove the play, Check & adjust end-play....Then remove the shims for final assembly.
I use a Ford AXOD final drive sun gear bearing....Part# E6DZ-7F404-A
Ford has discontinued this part, But Green Sales has them in stock Phone# 1-800-543-4959.
This requires machining the forward hub thrust face & careful measurement to set the end-play!
Ditch the flimsy 4L80E Intermediate return spring retainer in favor of a much stouter TH400 piece, Carefully pry the springs off the 4L80E retainer & reuse the springs.
Dual Feeding the Directs requires the use of "High Rate" direct piston return springs in my opinion to keep downshifts clean & prevent direct piston creep at high rpm in 1st.
I don't like using high rate springs in the 4L80E spring cage assembly as I've seen the aftermath of the springs laying over & distorting the **** out of the bottom spring retainer.
I recommend running a Aluminum TH400 piston with cast-in spring pockets along with a TH400 top spring retainer.
Using this piston allows you to machine the piston to run a extra friction/Get the clutch clearance just right.
Every 4L80E direct drum I've ever seen has a Bleed Checkball in it, Locate a TH400 piston that DOES NOT have a bleed as some TH400's used a drum bleed....And some used a piston bleed.
I also drill a .055" bleed hole at the edge of the direct drum on units that will see high RPM.
Install a HD Intermediate Clutch Snap Ring.
Drill a .055" "Lube to Line" Bypass in the Pump Cover
Delete the 3rd & 4th Accumulator Housing with a block-off plate, Control your 3rd & 4th shift firmness with the feed orifices in the plate.
Use the Brass Thrust Washer that came from the Case Thrust between the Reaction & Output Carriers....Replacing the Plastic Thrust Washer.
Sonnax drop-in TCC Regulator Valve part#34994-01K.....Avoid the disgusted feeling of your fresh unit falling out of lock-up hot/No lock-up!
I Ream the AFL Valve Bore & install a oversized AFL Valve on EVERY 4L80E, The cheaper Trans Go kit is fine & very effective. Trans Go part# 48-ACT-TL, After your done you can sell it & get most of your money back!
A hard worked 4L80E will need ALL the Bushings replaced, Keeps the unit running on center!
Replace the AFL Filter at the end of manual valve bore, Be VERY careful not to crack the end cap during installation! Remove the shift solenoid closest to the bore plug as it gets in the way of removing the bore plug.
Set all FOUR end-play locations!
Total Rear Unit.....003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Reaction Carrier to Center Support......008"-.015"
Direct Drum to Forward Hub......003"-.008" (Rollerized)
Front unit.....005-.008" more/greater than the Rear Unit
Checking Front Unit end-play is a little tricky because the input shaft floats in the O/D Carrier.....I use shims between the Carrier & Snap Ring to remove the play, Check & adjust end-play....Then remove the shims for final assembly.
10-16-2017, 09:06 PM
#13
TECH Fanatic
Running a Wave/Cushion plate in the Direct Drum will help with abrupt 3rd gear shifts especially when you lift the throttle right before/during a 2-3 shift, I run TH400 Waves because the 4L80E Waves are known to break.....Easily obtained from Raybestos/Allomatic distributors.
Street/Strip "start with" recommendations......
Stock-2,000 stall......3rd-.086" 4th-.086"
2,800-3,200 stall.....3rd-.093" 4th-.093"
The accumulators are difficult to dial-in because it's not only the accumulator springs in the accumulator housing that effect shift feel....The Accumulator Valve spring weight also greatly affects it, Changing this spring will also affect the 1-2 shift.
The Accumulator Valve is located in the Valve Body & controls the pressure via torque signal that opposes clutch apply feeds in the 2nd/3rd/4th accumulators.
You can tailor the shift feel by changing accumulator valve spring weights if leaving the 3rd & 4th accumulators active, Or if you want to tweak the 1-2 a little if deleting the 3rd & 4th accumulators.....
Lighter=Firmer shifts.
Heavier=Softer shifts.
This is BACKWARDS from a 4L60E!!!
Deleting the 3rd & 4th accumulators also eliminates quite a few potential leak/cross leak points!
11-12-2017, 11:33 AM
#16
TECH Fanatic
Omit #5 & #6 checkballs when deleting 3rd & 4th accumulators.
It's popular to omit checkball #9 when dual feeding the direct clutch to speed up reverse apply (Apply of the direct clutch in reverse), I would recommend drilling the apply orifice (Arrow-43) to .086-.093" to speed up the apply & leave #9 installed. Omitting the checkball can cause a really rough reverse especially if the wave plate is omitted in the direct clutch.
On my personal 4L80E I left the apply hole stock & installed #9......Reverse is a little soft but my car is light enough & I have patience for the directs to completely apply before giving it throttle.
It's popular to omit checkball #9 when dual feeding the direct clutch to speed up reverse apply (Apply of the direct clutch in reverse), I would recommend drilling the apply orifice (Arrow-43) to .086-.093" to speed up the apply & leave #9 installed. Omitting the checkball can cause a really rough reverse especially if the wave plate is omitted in the direct clutch.
On my personal 4L80E I left the apply hole stock & installed #9......Reverse is a little soft but my car is light enough & I have patience for the directs to completely apply before giving it throttle.
Last edited by clinebarger; 11-12-2017 at 12:32 PM.
11-12-2017, 04:51 PM
#19
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11-12-2017, 05:02 PM
#20
TECH Fanatic
I forgot this is a pick-up, Go up to .110" on the direct reverse feed.
That's good! You are running a wave on top of the Intermediate Piston?
That's good! You are running a wave on top of the Intermediate Piston?