Sir Harmony

I'm trying to figure out what happened to my last 4L60e. I took it apart and I have almost finished rebuilding it on my first build. What I noted is that the forward clutches were completely burned. There were no load release springs for the 3-4 housing. The builder did not install those. The rear input drum was filled with clutch material. The housing itself was beaten up in some places, and I replaced that as well. The sun gear, rear planet and ring gear were stuck together, and I had to hammer them apart. The teeth were broken inside. I believe that the rear snap ring in the case was lose, or not properly installed as well.

I sent the converter to FTI for inspection, and they said the converter had ballooned and the clutches were burned. They sent me a replacement. The valve body to case gasket was completely stuck together (no way this thing had been touched for years). It took hours to scrape it all off, and I still had to boil the valve body (I tried everything else to get it to come off before this). Valve body to separate plate gasket was fused together, and I ended up just getting another separator plate. On the valve body, the PWM is cracked at the connector and is ready to snap off if I apply some pressure. Nearly everything in the transmission has been replaced. Every friction is modified and every plate is a Kolene. 5 planetary front & rear gears. Sonnax input drum reinforcement kit. New bushings everywhere but the output shaft. Sonnax smart shell, Sonnax performance pack, sonnax 2nd gear super hold servo, 4th gear super hold servo, etc. The only items I did not upgrade were the 2.84 input carrier kit, and hardened input & output shafts. So it's going back in this weekend, but I'd like some help in making sure I don't experience another failure.

Now this is where I need help in figuring out if I was the cause of the initial trans failure, or if it was the builder's fault (who is without question, incompetent). I only drove a max of 450-500 gentle (highway) miles on the other trans after purchase when it failed. I accelerated from a stop to maybe 10-20mph, and knocked the shifter into neutral. I then revved it 5-6k while the vehicle was rolling at said speed. {kid's were cheering for batman's car,and I decided to give them a little exhaust treat} I don't recall if I slapped the shifter back into Drive and then it shut off once the rpms bottomed out, or if the vehicle simply shut off before I had a chance to shift to drive. I tried to start the car and it took a several cranks before it started. I then drove another 5miles @ 50mph before I lost forward gear. I came to a stop on the side of the highway, and noticed that reverse was also gone. After letting it cool down, I eventually noted that I could drive the car for a few seconds before I lost forward gear. I did that maybe 4-5 times to get the car off the highway and onto a tow truck. Reverse gear was worse, and I couldn't even back off the tow truck. In reverse, it would shudder for 2-5 secs, and then go into a happy rev. I detailed my findings above. So what do you guys think? Was my rev while in motion responsible for damaging the old 4pinion rear planet?

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

If RPMS were higher than idle when you dropped it back into gear then it's your fault without a doubt, The reason everything was so burnt up/stuck together was likely due to overheating. You probably broke something on the initial incident and by continuing to drive it damaged it even more.

98CayenneT/A

I disagree massively. Nothing he did should of caused that much damage. I absolutely agree with it overheating but due to builder error. Burning up ALL clutches is builder error, especially within 500 miles.

SRT8.Acelleration

Buy a new Transmission from Extreme Automatics, he builds a kick *** 4L60E. Only shop I use to build these transmissions.

Media Blasted & Race Prepped Case
EA Super Pump Assembly
High Performance Frictions
AcDelco Reverse Input Drum
2 5/8" Wide High Performance 2-4 Band
Billet 4th Gear Servo
Billet 2nd Gear Servo
Heavy Duty Sleeved Roller Reverse Shell
Rollerized Reverse Input to Stator
4L65E Low Roller Clutch
4L70E Dual Cage Input Sprag Assembly
Case Saver
Billet Overrun Clutch Piston
HP Hi-per Blue Bonded Pistons
Wide Rear Sun Gear Bushing
Wide Stator Bushings
EA Performance Valve Body Upgrades
Billet Accumulator Pistons
Heavy Duty 3-4 Return Springs
Quick Release Input Drum Capsule
New AcDelco Deep Pan
Billet Output Shaft
4L70E Roller Reaction Shaft
Updated Forward Planet Bearing
5 Pinion Front and Rear Planets
300M Billet Input Shaft
Bolt Together Reinforced Input Drum

1 Year Warranty
$450 Freshen Up Fee For Life

Sir Harmony

SRT8.Acelleration, I am already rebuilt the tranny myself. Looking at your list, with the exception of a media blasted case, billet shaft, & 'bolt together reinforced input drum' ($650 sonnax smart tech input housing), I have nearly everything on that list in my new build.

I imagine that after revving to 6k, I must have moved the shifter back into drive. It was still rolling when it was dropped into neutral, as well as when it was shifted back into drive. When the car shut off and wouldn't start, I imagine that the rear planet/sun gear/carrier assembly were stuck at that point, and the only way to free them was by force. Once that happened, things only went downhill from there. By the time the car had lost all forward gear minutes later on the highway, any attempt to move it beyond that (including the 1 mile I drove to get it off the highway because the tow truck could not load the car), just fried the forward/reverse clutches and steals. This is what I think happened and the order that it happened in. I could be wrong and I'm curious to know what your assessments are.

My other question has to do with popping the trans into neutral and revving the motor, then popping it back into drive. I hadn't done that in years. I realize that it's not a manual and this 'may' not be healthy for the transmission. However, I've done this for many years with lesser cars and never had an issue with it. Is this as damaging for a transmission as it sounds?

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

Not if he broke something and continued to drive it while the clutches were slipping. Dropping a trans in gear at 5,000rpms is likely to break something.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

If you were only rolling in neutral then rev and back to idle then drop it back into drive it shouldn't do any harm.
Many drag racers will pop it into neutral on the shutdown and then drop it back into drive once the car slows.

98CayenneT/A

I agree but most healthy transmissions will handle a neutral drop or two. The reason I say builder error is him not having reverse.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

He had reverse up until the point that the trans was already fried. Although I've seen a few transmissions survive repeated neutral drops I sure would ask who's fault it might be if it broke lol.
He still hasn't said whether it was an accidental neutral drop or not so it's hard to say if that actually had anything to do with it.
I know someone who went to click his trans into neutral at over 130mph and hit reverse instead, Pretty much wiped out everything out from one end to the other when he bounced it off both guard rails

Game ova

Those drag racers are the very same ones with the all too familiar convertible tranny. When the direct drum comes apart, whatever it hits WILL be busted up.... sometimes it's the driver. Do NOT shift to neutral, unless you have a clean neutral.

Sir Harmony

I finally completed the build in January and installed the tranny in February. drove about 350miles on it. It drives beautifully and flawlessly. I'm very happy I decided to undertake the build after 3 failed 'built' transmissions. some advice to whoever considers rebuilding / building their tranny: do not take it apart and wait months like I did to piece it back together. I took it completely apart in early August, but did not finish putting back together until January. It didn't help matters that I was upgrading nearly everything.

Now that she's running again after nearly 2 years, I've already started modding again.

My question is as follows: Is there a safe way to manually shift the transmission? I'm not talking about dropping into neutral or dare I say it, reverse or park while driving. I'm strictly speaking about dropping from 4th to 3rd, to 2nd, to 1st, and going up the gears as well - essentially downshifting and upshifting at will via the shifter instead of flooring it. I did this with my older vehicles and never had issues with them. Is this something I can do safely?

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

The answer is yes as long as you do so reasonably, by using the throttle to bring up the revs to where they're going to be when the lower gear engages. I manually downshift 4-3 fairly often in traffic situations, 4/3-2 from time to time.

One thing I've found that never feels right in a manual downshift into 1st. In very low speed situations in manual 2nd, I'll upshift to 3rd which then gives a smooth downshift to 1st. Manually downshifting into 1st in such conditions gives an abrupt, braking feel shift, even when I'm careful to bring up the revs.