Anyone have experience with the knockoff beast shell?
02-06-2019, 01:48 PM
#1
Anyone have experience with the knockoff beast shell? I'm second guessing myself. I always use a real beast sunshell, the one with the patent number printed on the shell. My local supplier says he can no longer get the real beast and sold me a knockoff china version. It doesnt look bad and the metal thickness is the same ( i compared to my original) but the radius where the splines are isnt quite as beefy and the sungear does not fit as tightly. I'd definately run it in a 450rwhp car but i'm a little skeptical because i probably have a bit more power than that. Anyone have experience with it?
btw, in case you're wondering why i cant use my original beast, the reaction carrier has welded itself together and i couldnt get it out.
btw, in case you're wondering why i cant use my original beast, the reaction carrier has welded itself together and i couldnt get it out.
02-06-2019, 07:06 PM
#6
The Beast has been made in china for quiet some time now a few years at least, However we have not seen any increased failure rates . I imagine they are still built to the patent specifications. We use the beast in our levels 2 and heavy hauler and the sonnax shell in higher levels .
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02-06-2019, 07:14 PM
#7
The Beast has been made in china for quiet some time now a few years at least, However we have not seen any increased failure rates . I imagine they are still built to the patent specifications. We use the beast in our levels 2 and heavy hauler and the sonnax shell in higher levels .
Last edited by Kfxguy; 02-06-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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02-06-2019, 07:16 PM
#8
Maybe your confusing the smart shell with just a std replacement? because ive seen them in some wicked builds with no issue. i mean i haven't seen issues with a beast until now also, but the torrington bearing is much better than a nylon thrust washer also.
02-06-2019, 07:26 PM
#9
seems backwards to me. Built a trans for my buddy that had a mid 10 second car. He wanted the sonnax shell. So that’s what we got. It didn’t take long for it to get bent out of shape. Put a beast in it and never had another problem. Seems like the thicker metal of the beast and the thicker radius around the splined area would be stronger? I don’t know if I’d use another sonnax if I was given one. I’d be willing to bet my car will twist it.
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02-06-2019, 08:00 PM
#10
Look fellas, I’m a fan of sonnax products. I use mainly their stuff when I can. But I cant argue the reliability of their smart shell. The only thing I can tell you is I used it one time. Once. And it bent all out of shape from a nitroused mid ten second full weight 4th camaro. So in my mind, if the first time I ever used it and it failed, I’d be a fool to try it again. And this isn’t a situation that I heard about. This is my actual experience. So then I carried on using the beast shell and never had one fail again. I don’t have any 1000rwhp car running around with a 4l60 in it either. But still.
02-07-2019, 07:27 AM
#11
TECH Junkie
Looks like you're dealing with a limited sample size again KFX...1
you tried one and had one fail
You're hearing from guys (myself included) that have used the sonnax shell in lots of builds with lots of success. In my eyes it is the superior part to the beast.
I've had the beast fail, I've had stock fail, I've never had a sonnax fail. Never.
Maybe you got bad luck...maybe you were delivered the wrong part...did you ever contact sonnax and ask what they thought? Send them some pics? I've always had great luck with sonnax on that regard.
What I see more than the sunshell in alot of builds that come through the door...is a rear planet failure. This planet failure almost ALWAYS is due to the torrington bearing failing first...then sending the rollers and other junk through the pinions and then everywhere. The smart shell fixes this issue and is a great improvement in my opinion.
Youve seen pics in this thread of a broken beast sunshell...if that was the first one you ever got, would you have sworn off the beast? If so...you'd be missing out on all the performance you now trust that part to have.
Personally...since I know what you're building...I wouldn't bother with the knock off beast. The thickness never has been and never will be the issue with the sunshell...its the strength in the spline area. The material, heat treating, and fillet radii are way more important than the thickness you measure up by the reverse input engagement lugs. I wouldn't trust the knock off in those regards.
you tried one and had one fail
You're hearing from guys (myself included) that have used the sonnax shell in lots of builds with lots of success. In my eyes it is the superior part to the beast.
I've had the beast fail, I've had stock fail, I've never had a sonnax fail. Never.
Maybe you got bad luck...maybe you were delivered the wrong part...did you ever contact sonnax and ask what they thought? Send them some pics? I've always had great luck with sonnax on that regard.
What I see more than the sunshell in alot of builds that come through the door...is a rear planet failure. This planet failure almost ALWAYS is due to the torrington bearing failing first...then sending the rollers and other junk through the pinions and then everywhere. The smart shell fixes this issue and is a great improvement in my opinion.
Youve seen pics in this thread of a broken beast sunshell...if that was the first one you ever got, would you have sworn off the beast? If so...you'd be missing out on all the performance you now trust that part to have.
Personally...since I know what you're building...I wouldn't bother with the knock off beast. The thickness never has been and never will be the issue with the sunshell...its the strength in the spline area. The material, heat treating, and fillet radii are way more important than the thickness you measure up by the reverse input engagement lugs. I wouldn't trust the knock off in those regards.
02-07-2019, 07:50 AM
#12
Looks like you're dealing with a limited sample size again KFX...1
you tried one and had one fail
You're hearing from guys (myself included) that have used the sonnax shell in lots of builds with lots of success. In my eyes it is the superior part to the beast.
I've had the beast fail, I've had stock fail, I've never had a sonnax fail. Never.
Maybe you got bad luck...maybe you were delivered the wrong part...did you ever contact sonnax and ask what they thought? Send them some pics? I've always had great luck with sonnax on that regard.
What I see more than the sunshell in alot of builds that come through the door...is a rear planet failure. This planet failure almost ALWAYS is due to the torrington bearing failing first...then sending the rollers and other junk through the pinions and then everywhere. The smart shell fixes this issue and is a great improvement in my opinion.
Youve seen pics in this thread of a broken beast sunshell...if that was the first one you ever got, would you have sworn off the beast? If so...you'd be missing out on all the performance you now trust that part to have.
Personally...since I know what you're building...I wouldn't bother with the knock off beast. The thickness never has been and never will be the issue with the sunshell...its the strength in the spline area. The material, heat treating, and fillet radii are way more important than the thickness you measure up by the reverse input engagement lugs. I wouldn't trust the knock off in those regards.
you tried one and had one fail
You're hearing from guys (myself included) that have used the sonnax shell in lots of builds with lots of success. In my eyes it is the superior part to the beast.
I've had the beast fail, I've had stock fail, I've never had a sonnax fail. Never.
Maybe you got bad luck...maybe you were delivered the wrong part...did you ever contact sonnax and ask what they thought? Send them some pics? I've always had great luck with sonnax on that regard.
What I see more than the sunshell in alot of builds that come through the door...is a rear planet failure. This planet failure almost ALWAYS is due to the torrington bearing failing first...then sending the rollers and other junk through the pinions and then everywhere. The smart shell fixes this issue and is a great improvement in my opinion.
Youve seen pics in this thread of a broken beast sunshell...if that was the first one you ever got, would you have sworn off the beast? If so...you'd be missing out on all the performance you now trust that part to have.
Personally...since I know what you're building...I wouldn't bother with the knock off beast. The thickness never has been and never will be the issue with the sunshell...its the strength in the spline area. The material, heat treating, and fillet radii are way more important than the thickness you measure up by the reverse input engagement lugs. I wouldn't trust the knock off in those regards.
point taken. I’ll just order another real beast.
You’ve got to understand where I’m coming from. The very first time I tried the sonnax shell, it failed. I had used the beast up until that point and had no issues. The smart shell fails, in short time too at that. Put a beast in it and no problem after. So no reasoning could convince me because of my personal experience. Yea I get it, it only happened once, but the first one I use, why even try it again? That would be ignorant on my part to chance it. I haven’t discussed this with any other builders until now so I had not heard if other people had luck or not. But to be honest, the bearing sounds nice but it’s hard to spend $100 on something that I’ve been getting for $45 that hasn’t let me down yet.
i didn’t call sonnax about it. I figured they would just tell me sorry, have a good day.
What hat would I do if there were no beast? I would be welding the spine area myself and turning the radius with my lathe.
Last edited by Kfxguy; 02-07-2019 at 07:56 AM.
02-07-2019, 08:28 AM
#13
TECH Junkie
I get totally where you're coming from. First failure really puts a sour taste in your mouth. No doubt about it haha
But if you're wary to use the smart shell...I'm saying I don't think you should be scared to at least try it again. As you can see from the comments in this thread...its a proven part and many have really good success with it.
The beast is a good piece...don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's as good as the smart shell.
As for the cost...a beast usually runs me around the upper 40's or lower 50's
the smart shell is usually lower 80's
That extra 30-40 bucks is worth every penny when I build for a customer because it means I won't have to see that trans again for a rear planet failure. (And even better yet...I won't have to have the stupid 5 pinion planet argument again haha) The smart shell combined with some lubrication improvements has essentially eliminated planet failure in any of my builds.
But if you're wary to use the smart shell...I'm saying I don't think you should be scared to at least try it again. As you can see from the comments in this thread...its a proven part and many have really good success with it.
The beast is a good piece...don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's as good as the smart shell.
As for the cost...a beast usually runs me around the upper 40's or lower 50's
the smart shell is usually lower 80's
That extra 30-40 bucks is worth every penny when I build for a customer because it means I won't have to see that trans again for a rear planet failure. (And even better yet...I won't have to have the stupid 5 pinion planet argument again haha) The smart shell combined with some lubrication improvements has essentially eliminated planet failure in any of my builds.
02-07-2019, 08:49 AM
#14
I get totally where you're coming from. First failure really puts a sour taste in your mouth. No doubt about it haha
But if you're wary to use the smart shell...I'm saying I don't think you should be scared to at least try it again. As you can see from the comments in this thread...its a proven part and many have really good success with it.
The beast is a good piece...don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's as good as the smart shell.
As for the cost...a beast usually runs me around the upper 40's or lower 50's
the smart shell is usually lower 80's
That extra 30-40 bucks is worth every penny when I build for a customer because it means I won't have to see that trans again for a rear planet failure. (And even better yet...I won't have to have the stupid 5 pinion planet argument again haha) The smart shell combined with some lubrication improvements has essentially eliminated planet failure in any of my builds.
But if you're wary to use the smart shell...I'm saying I don't think you should be scared to at least try it again. As you can see from the comments in this thread...its a proven part and many have really good success with it.
The beast is a good piece...don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's as good as the smart shell.
As for the cost...a beast usually runs me around the upper 40's or lower 50's
the smart shell is usually lower 80's
That extra 30-40 bucks is worth every penny when I build for a customer because it means I won't have to see that trans again for a rear planet failure. (And even better yet...I won't have to have the stupid 5 pinion planet argument again haha) The smart shell combined with some lubrication improvements has essentially eliminated planet failure in any of my builds.
If it addresses the rear planet then that’s a plus. I have a four pinion front and a 5 pinion rear. Not sure I put too much faith in the 5 pinion being stronger. Think I should just put my 4 pinion back in? I’m also adding in the wide sun gear bushing.
02-07-2019, 09:36 AM
#15
TECH Junkie
I have never had a 4 pinion fail from too much torque or power.
Lack of lube, getting wiped out due to the torrington taking a dump first, exploded rear ends that send the shock up the drivetrain, etc have all killed 4 planets (it would have killed 5 pinions too) but power has never been the root cause of the failure in my opinion.
I hope you get your build back and going! (and I REALLY hope the sonnax shell holds up for you...after us all telling you no failures, we'd be eating crow if you had any trouble)
Lack of lube, getting wiped out due to the torrington taking a dump first, exploded rear ends that send the shock up the drivetrain, etc have all killed 4 planets (it would have killed 5 pinions too) but power has never been the root cause of the failure in my opinion.
I hope you get your build back and going! (and I REALLY hope the sonnax shell holds up for you...after us all telling you no failures, we'd be eating crow if you had any trouble)
02-07-2019, 09:45 AM
#16
I have never had a 4 pinion fail from too much torque or power.
Lack of lube, getting wiped out due to the torrington taking a dump first, exploded rear ends that send the shock up the drivetrain, etc have all killed 4 planets (it would have killed 5 pinions too) but power has never been the root cause of the failure in my opinion.
I hope you get your build back and going! (and I REALLY hope the sonnax shell holds up for you...after us all telling you no failures, we'd be eating crow if you had any trouble)
Lack of lube, getting wiped out due to the torrington taking a dump first, exploded rear ends that send the shock up the drivetrain, etc have all killed 4 planets (it would have killed 5 pinions too) but power has never been the root cause of the failure in my opinion.
I hope you get your build back and going! (and I REALLY hope the sonnax shell holds up for you...after us all telling you no failures, we'd be eating crow if you had any trouble)
If it fails........i'm gonna....i dont know what i'll do. laugh and post pictures. lol and then tell you thats 2 out of 2
02-07-2019, 09:57 AM
#17
TECH Junkie
sounds good to me 
