BW high energy 3-4 sucks, one step backwards
12-01-2005, 10:26 PM
#1
BW high energy 3-4 sucks, one step backwards Is it just me, probably is.
I get this eight disc set up in hopes of increasing performance.
It might, it might not, I'll take the blame for screwing the trans up to make it flare on the 2-3 shift.
So heres my point coming up, the BW hi energy 3-4 clutch. Mine had burn marks at every point where it contacts the 3-4 apply basket or whatever the **** it's called.
That tells me the pressure plate is too weak and it's not staying flat.
I remember reading about the "new and improved 4L60E" and it's thick 3-4 pressure plate.
So why in a high performance application are we going a step backwards and using the old 700R4 style garbage?
And making it even worse by using a thinner non hardened steel pressure plate
(on top of the apply retainer with the 5 tangs of course)
I just got in from reworking my transmission and ended up with a 7 disc set up, leaving the garbage out, putting the good stuff back in with a few thin steels (yea sure they'll burn up from lack of heat transfer right OR too much heat build up due to lack of clearance as advised by transgo) set it right at .030.
Got a new seperator plate and drilled it close to stock, a pinless fwd accumulator piston, a alum second accum piston with 2 washers.
And the gaskets and seals to access these parts.
Now I'm high on brake cleaner fumes and pissed off thinking this **** better work. How could I start off with no internet, buying stuff from local trans shops and have better luck than I do having access to hundreds of suppliers, parts and people who build this stuff for a living?
Oh the vac mod kit I guess will stay on the bench for now, yea I got it, it had the wrong house number on it thats why it took forever to get here.
Whats up with the weak pressure plate, that idea sucks if you ask me.
I get this eight disc set up in hopes of increasing performance.
It might, it might not, I'll take the blame for screwing the trans up to make it flare on the 2-3 shift.
So heres my point coming up, the BW hi energy 3-4 clutch. Mine had burn marks at every point where it contacts the 3-4 apply basket or whatever the **** it's called.
That tells me the pressure plate is too weak and it's not staying flat.
I remember reading about the "new and improved 4L60E" and it's thick 3-4 pressure plate.
So why in a high performance application are we going a step backwards and using the old 700R4 style garbage?
And making it even worse by using a thinner non hardened steel pressure plate
(on top of the apply retainer with the 5 tangs of course)I just got in from reworking my transmission and ended up with a 7 disc set up, leaving the garbage out, putting the good stuff back in with a few thin steels (yea sure they'll burn up from lack of heat transfer right OR too much heat build up due to lack of clearance as advised by transgo) set it right at .030.
Got a new seperator plate and drilled it close to stock, a pinless fwd accumulator piston, a alum second accum piston with 2 washers.
And the gaskets and seals to access these parts.
Now I'm high on brake cleaner fumes and pissed off thinking this **** better work. How could I start off with no internet, buying stuff from local trans shops and have better luck than I do having access to hundreds of suppliers, parts and people who build this stuff for a living?
Oh the vac mod kit I guess will stay on the bench for now, yea I got it, it had the wrong house number on it thats why it took forever to get here.
Whats up with the weak pressure plate, that idea sucks if you ask me.
12-02-2005, 09:35 AM
#2
WOW.....I see mentioned all of the parts that go into produceing the 3-4 but I see nothing mentioned about your line pressure when these clutchs are burning.....leaving the vacume mod on the bench (imo) is your first mistake considering it can be easily installed without removing the trans.....Again (imo) it has very little to do with weak apply plates or pressure plates, and more to do with apply pressure and pressure drop off (leaks in the apply system). I see you mentioning nothing about seals, check *****, crossleaks, bushings or preasure (apply and Line pressure). Seems to me from all your posts your well versed in this transmission, I think if you'll hone your skills you'll lick this thing, Jason you've gotta get to the problem thats burning these clutchs, and I think you'll find it's pressure (lack of proper line rise) not the clutch pack itself,........... I'd run away from that electrical line rise so fast it'd make your head spin, part of the solution is on your bench, (in a box with the wrong house number on it)......There are other problems as well but that would be a good start.... Oh one other thing ...get a 5 gal bucket from home depot and three gallons of mineral spirets, that brake cleaner will kill yah man!!!! LOL.. I hope this helps.... Dave .........Give me a call lets chat...
12-02-2005, 04:31 PM
#3
Wow a reply from Rock-On 
I appreciate it.
Now on to business.
I didn't mention line pressure because it's not my point.
My point is if I pull a burned up clutch set out of my transmission I want to see the whole plate burned not five 1" sections, that tells me the pressure plate is too weak and flexing.
But since you asked line pressure at 2-3 flare is 120psi.
No one seems to use the upshift pressure modifier section of HPTuners, I asked I think, or one of the best guys over there asked me what my results were. I am assuming my modifications to the pressure modifiers are why my line pressure goes from (IIRC) 70psi to 120psi about a second or so before the shift during the shift and a second or so after the shift. Thats at part throttle.
It's a long story. I put the transgo kit in last year and it's been fine.
Then I got a converter and thought it was a good time to put the 3-4 and forward springs from the kit in there, did that, air checked ok.
Also knowing the 3-4 clutches are weak I decided to upgrade those.
And the band.
My mistake was going crazy with the feed hole sizes in the plate, I think, I hope, I should find out tonight if I can get it done.
I created a shift timing issue I assume. If I use HPTuners manual controls I can do a 1-3 shift at all speeds and throttle positions with no flare.
I can also put it in 3rd and lock the tcc so it won't downshift and put some good power to it and it does not slip. (the tcc does of course).
In the past year since putting the kit in it was fine, all the parts I took out are fine, has 33,000 miles on it.
Somehow I created a problem.
Right now the trans is almost back to how it was, it has one extra 3-4 plate and clearance reduced from .070-.080 down to .030. Original 3-4 pressure plates and snap ring.
New BW band, all new seals that you run into accesing all the parts mentioned in this post (like the 3-4 springs that would mean the moulded pistons--everything). New sep plate with holes drilled back to the sizes I noted during the initial installation.
Probably some other stuff but this post is getting long.
Thanks for reading though....
I appreciate it. Now on to business.
I didn't mention line pressure because it's not my point.
My point is if I pull a burned up clutch set out of my transmission I want to see the whole plate burned not five 1" sections, that tells me the pressure plate is too weak and flexing.
But since you asked line pressure at 2-3 flare is 120psi.
No one seems to use the upshift pressure modifier section of HPTuners, I asked I think, or one of the best guys over there asked me what my results were. I am assuming my modifications to the pressure modifiers are why my line pressure goes from (IIRC) 70psi to 120psi about a second or so before the shift during the shift and a second or so after the shift. Thats at part throttle.
It's a long story. I put the transgo kit in last year and it's been fine.
Then I got a converter and thought it was a good time to put the 3-4 and forward springs from the kit in there, did that, air checked ok.
Also knowing the 3-4 clutches are weak I decided to upgrade those.
And the band.
My mistake was going crazy with the feed hole sizes in the plate, I think, I hope, I should find out tonight if I can get it done.
I created a shift timing issue I assume. If I use HPTuners manual controls I can do a 1-3 shift at all speeds and throttle positions with no flare.
I can also put it in 3rd and lock the tcc so it won't downshift and put some good power to it and it does not slip. (the tcc does of course).
In the past year since putting the kit in it was fine, all the parts I took out are fine, has 33,000 miles on it.
Somehow I created a problem.
Right now the trans is almost back to how it was, it has one extra 3-4 plate and clearance reduced from .070-.080 down to .030. Original 3-4 pressure plates and snap ring.
New BW band, all new seals that you run into accesing all the parts mentioned in this post (like the 3-4 springs that would mean the moulded pistons--everything). New sep plate with holes drilled back to the sizes I noted during the initial installation.
Probably some other stuff but this post is getting long.
Thanks for reading though....
