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I've done several builds with the 4l60, and most of what I've learned has been from a combination of experience and reading multiple forums. Has anyone ever compiled a complete start to finish list of teardown testing, performance upgrade parts, and hydraulic modifications? It's exhausting trying to remeber everything, and searching multiple forums for confirmation. Can we put a complete list together front to back of all the proven mods that make this particular transmission hold up to high horsepower?
I don't think anyone is going to spend the hours and hours of time to prepare a step-by-step manual compiled of internet info. I know I not going to, but I will tell you what I do. Whenever I come across information that is new to me, I will copy and paste it to a word document. Then every so often I will go back and organize said information. I have been doing this for a long time. Most of the info is there if someone is willing to put in the work.
An example of this is just a few days ago Frank posted some pics of his work, and I noticed something that I hadn't seen before. I asked Frank a few questions and you can bet I copied the pic and his answers to my document.
I considered doing this but without photos and In depth explanation it would be useless and extremely time consuming. Perhaps an idea you could search around find what you know and can then post here and I can assure you some of the best they are hang in this forum and we all can look at what comes and see if through selective critique we can come to a peer reviewed assessment of the IDEAL 4L60E build.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
I don't think anyone is going to spend the hours and hours of time to prepare a step-by-step manual compiled of internet info. I know I not going to, but I will tell you what I do. Whenever I come across information that is new to me, I will copy and paste it to a word document. Then every so often I will go back and organize said information. I have been doing this for a long time. Most of the info is there if someone is willing to put in the work.
An example of this is just a few days ago Frank posted some pics of his work, and I noticed something that I hadn't seen before. I asked Frank a few questions and you can bet I copied the pic and his answers to my document.
I do the exact same thing. I have also spent the hours writing things into a physical document. That is a real pain...
Most of the time a build list like Franks, Bbond105's or such is where you can start. The build list is what part's is best to use for their business. The how/what to do is for you to supply. For example I use a builders bench stone on all flat surfaces. The fine side on the case/valve-body/pump bodies/pump covers. I even use the course side on the separator plate. It smooths out any high spots and actually allows 99% reuse of the plate with an oversized 1-2 check-ball. The TransGo SK's come with a .265 gold ball and the AXOD/AX4N ball is .312. I also scotch-bright all accumulator/servo bores. I no longer scuff steel plates or drums. It's been proven over time to be a detriment to shift quality. There are times that certain drums need to be scuffed or sanded for garage shift feel, like the 2nd drum in a 4T60E/4T65E for the reverse band.
Some research and time spent building your own spec sheet is best.
here is my own stage 1& stage 2 build lists. I hope this helps...
I do the exact same thing. I have also spent the hours writing things into a physical document. That is a real pain...
Most of the time a build list like Franks, Bbond105's or such is where you can start. The build list is what part's is best to use for their business. The how/what to do is for you to supply. For example I use a builders bench stone on all flat surfaces. The fine side on the case/valve-body/pump bodies/pump covers. I even use the course side on the separator plate. It smooths out any high spots and actually allows 99% reuse of the plate with an oversized 1-2 check-ball. The TransGo SK's come with a .265 gold ball and the AXOD/AX4N ball is .312. I also scotch-bright all accumulator/servo bores. I no longer scuff steel plates or drums. It's been proven over time to be a detriment to shift quality. There are times that certain drums need to be scuffed or sanded for garage shift feel, like the 2nd drum in a 4T60E/4T65E for the reverse band.
Some research and time spent building your own spec sheet is best.
here is my own stage 1& stage 2 build lists. I hope this helps...
There have been many good and some really great builds already done on the Forum!
It's all available in our Search Engine...
The Google Search Engine most often pulls from our Search Results on 4L60E Builds.
The majority of the Build Information has been the same for years and years.
However there are always small details that change with time.
Fads come and go, New Parts come out, some stay, some go...
I was going to cover a Build in a really big Thread...
I started it (It's now a Sticky) and anyone with experience (There are Many here) can add to it/ continue it!
I am not up to working on it at this time but hope to be able to in the future!
Curious the GPZ band is it a wide band and source, I would love to use that in my higher builds ?
Yes the Raybestos Super Pro wide band is 2-5/8" wide. It carries a Raybestos part # RPS77765 & a WIT part # A74020BAHK. WIT's description is a Kevlar band not the GPZ material as I first thought it was. The color is a darker green than the GPZ friction plates. Mark Pucinelli of TransGo is a proponent of brown lining on bands, he has never shared why as of yet. I have also used the WIT part # A74020BHP in the past when I could not get either the Raybestos or the Alto wide bands. It is made by GFX transmission parts and is 2.62 wide it has a brown Hi-energy material. I have not yet seen a CB with that band yet.
I appreciate the responses. Some of the info posted is exactly what I was looking for to compare. The area I am most lacking in is the spacer plate orifice sizes in relationship to clutch clearances, band clearanceand size, and shift timing. I know enough to realize that changing these parts to upgrade should also require specific changes to orifice sizes. I'm just not exactly sure how to find those values other than trial and error. I have had one unit do very well holding torque. It finally failed by spinning the input shaft in the sonnax smart drum. In that particular trans I used a combination of HD2 and sonnax, but if I'm being honest I came upon the combination by luck. I think theres probably a more solid aproach to consistent results. I will make note of all the info posted here, once again thank you.
Ok Ill go first with little mods
Personally I use .092 for 2nd and .100 for 3rd and 4th
Also here is a simple mod I do . Other ways exist to do it but this is easiest IMO I call it the FULL TIME OVERUN MOD its pictured , Please excuse i have not cleaned up the connection channel in this photo but it shows clearly how to do it and its simple, The purpsoe keep the overun clutch on in all forward grears except actual 4th to help reduce shock to and support the input sprag, And yes you then leave the ball out of the bathtube full time overun mod
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
It feeds it always but the 3-4 signal valve vents it, And dont worry about venting some forward oil when it does , Bear in mind the fwd clucth while applied in 4th does nothing so has 0 stress on it.
I at one time was considering making a sprag slug out of solid aluminum or steel and just using same circut to just release the FWD clutch like Ford does with the AOD and 4R70W and eliminating the sprag but was afraid might be to hard to time it and not end up real clunky on the 3-4 4-3 shifts.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Ok Ill go first with little mods
Personally I use .092 for 2nd and .100 for 3rd and 4th
Also here is a simple mod I do . Other ways exist to do it but this is easiest IMO I call it the FULL TIME OVERUN MOD its pictured , Please excuse i have not cleaned up the connection channel in this photo but it shows clearly how to do it and its simple, The purpsoe keep the overun clutch on in all forward grears except actual 4th to help reduce shock to and support the input sprag, And yes you then leave the ball out of the bathtube full time overun mod
This is gold.
No one shared this info before.
Only Vorteciroc and Maroon challenged everyone to figure this out and no one did.
What is the purpose plugging the holes? Is it nessesary?
Mr Frank, first, i want to thank you
Second, you just killed an expensive Sonnax HD Valve
Only Vorteciroc and Maroon challenged everyone to figure this out and no one did.
What is the purpose plugging the holes? Is it nessesary?
Mr Frank, first, i want to thank you
Second, you just killed an expensive Sonnax HD Valve
Well if you did not block those fwd clutch oil would feed back into those circuits on D3 it would vent via the manual valve etc and yes it does make the sonnax valve useless. I came up with the mod years ago and it was incorporated into the top two teir units and I credit it along with the introduction of the many billet parts and after market drums for the ability to cross the 1000 RWP threshhold with the 60e But I must say before I take credit for the mod that others too have found thier own ways of doing the same . MaroonMonster sells a VB plate that also does this and more , I only post mine as its super simple for the layman home builder to do, cost nothing and pretty much fool proof as they say . So I make no claim to beng first as I have no way to verify that but I think I am the only one who used this method, Its simple easy and effective along with proven for years in real world applications.
I also have a mod that turns on the low/rev clutch in D3 1st gear but its a bit more complicated and not really needed except in extreme cases, For instance had a vet that kept shattering the low roller on launch years ago 900rwhp using the low roller mod solved this and other than that only a couple other cases.
But mods I post here and hope others do to I want to be simple stuff easy and free or low cost.
Some worry that people will build their own and not buy from vendors if they post to much but I have found those that are gonna try it on there own are gonna do it ether way and honestly most first timers are going to fail I have noted as many many build post here show, But On the other hand I have had a number of those people to in the end come arround and just buy one from ME/US AT THE TIME. So I really do not think its such a problem.
One of the reasons I have never had issue with helping those who built their own or bought from others solve issues sometimes even when frowned upon by people over me because it has on a number of ocassions resulted in a sale of a unit either for the one they failed at building or had trouble with or in more cases after dealing with me they felt it easier to just buy the unit from me or through me to avoid the headaches.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 12-05-2023 at 11:02 AM.
The way I look at it Frank
I'm already busy enough! I don't need to gate keep every little thing to try to keep someone else from building. I don't have time to take on all those builds anyway!
The home shop guy can use some of these tips and tricks to build his own reliable unit. And I think that's great.
I think we all have some stuff we've developed or worked hard on that we don't want to just give away (for example I'm not going to do a write up on how to design a transbrake for the 4l60e or how to do my reverse input clutch on in 3rd gear setup etc...that's some complicated stuff that took development time) but tricks on assembly, stuff like the overrun mod, etc
All that is well worth sharing. And it has the added benefit of "pulling back the curtain" a bit. It shows customers or just interested parties that we are doing more (and understand more of the complexities) vs just buying a transgo kit and an overhaul kit and slapping it together.
One tidbit I'll add here is that for high performance units, or especially for towing units that will see repeated 4-3-4-3 shifts, I find it beneficial to drill a .025 hole (yes it's tiny and difficult to drill) in the case. 2nd clutch oil to left of the anchor.
When aimed properly, it's a tiny hole that won't hurt 2nd apply, but it will provide lots of cooling/lubricating oil to the rev drum right in the gap between the ends of the band. This helps keep things cool so you don't burn up bands on repeated 4-3-4-3 shifts towing or heavy throttle shifts into 4th.
The way I look at it Frank
I'm already busy enough! I don't need to gate keep every little thing to try to keep someone else from building. I don't have time to take on all those builds anyway!
The home shop guy can use some of these tips and tricks to build his own reliable unit. And I think that's great.
I think we all have some stuff we've developed or worked hard on that we don't want to just give away (for example I'm not going to do a write up on how to design a transbrake for the 4l60e or how to do my reverse input clutch on in 3rd gear setup etc...that's some complicated stuff that took development time) but tricks on assembly, stuff like the overrun mod, etc
All that is well worth sharing. And it has the added benefit of "pulling back the curtain" a bit. It shows customers or just interested parties that we are doing more (and understand more of the complexities) vs just buying a transgo kit and an overhaul kit and slapping it together.
One tidbit I'll add here is that for high performance units, or especially for towing units that will see repeated 4-3-4-3 shifts, I find it beneficial to drill a .025 hole (yes it's tiny and difficult to drill) in the case. 2nd clutch oil to left of the anchor.
When aimed properly, it's a tiny hole that won't hurt 2nd apply, but it will provide lots of cooling/lubricating oil to the rev drum right in the gap between the ends of the band. This helps keep things cool so y
ou don't burn up bands on repeated 4-3-4-3 shifts towing or heavy throttle shifts into 4th.
yes I do same and yes can be hard to drill when i do i use a number 60 wire size bit . Another slighly easier methos is to drill a hole large enough to accomodate one of the orifice cup plus from the pump . drill not qiuet through then finsh with smaller bit or if you do drill alway though no worries just brad up the hole a bit from the inside case side then drive the orice cup plug in from the VB side an alternate way . That tiny hole drilling through which is what i ussually do takes a steady hand , good straight drill and bit along with paitence.
But IMO well worth it as I worry that not just shifting but crusing while towing in OD presure can be realitively low and the band IMO can slip some , The mod helps to keep it cool when this happens.
I was actually thinking at one point of an orificed feed of 3-4 clutch oil to the boost valve to slightly raise line slightly when in 3rd and 4th without changing shift firmness to any degree but would take some experementation and dyno time or in car getting the orifice size just right but never got the time or interest to work with it. I mean the same could be done in tuning of course but thsi was more for the towing crowd who unlike the performance guys are much less likely to do or have any tuning done.
(those who wonder why I use bold type no reason other than I find it easir to read lol guess im old. )
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 12-05-2023 at 02:18 PM.
I considered doing this but without photos and In depth explanation it would be useless and extremely time consuming. Perhaps an idea you could search around find what you know and can then post here and I can assure you some of the best they are hang in this forum and we all can look at what comes and see if through selective critique we can come to a peer reviewed assessment of the IDEAL 4L60E build.
bought the Manuel on the 4l60e and it's pretty good explaining most of the trans
bought the Manuel on the 4l60e and it's pretty good explaining most of the trans
The Manual is good but that not what this thread is about but rather the little tricks , tips mods techs have come up with that are not in any book at least as far as I know..
And the Manual has some issues, Such as it will tell you the Overun clutch is on and 1-2 in d3 2 or 1, It is not , Its only on in D3 3rd gear not in 1-2 manually or automatically.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 12-05-2023 at 04:22 PM.
12-02-2023, 12:59 AM
4l60e complete upgrade discussion 
