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Commonly Asked Stall & Transmission Related Questions
06-08-2007, 10:55 PM
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Commonly Asked Stall & Transmission Related Questions Do i really need a tranny cooler with this stall.
Yes. As a by product of the stalling effect, more heat is created. This heat is damaging to the tranny and the way to deal with this is to get another tranny cooler(all Fbodies came from the factory with a external tranny cooler)
Do i need a shift kit with a high stall?
Unlike the cooler, a shift kit is not mandatory but its a good idea. The shifts with a stall might feel a little long so when you add the shift kit, the shifts quicken just a little more than stock.
Do i need a stall with a cam???
Usually. Most people tune the car for the cam which involves raising the idle speed on the car. Without a stall, you will have to just stand on the brakes to keep the car still because the engine is now idleing at 800rpm. Also, a bigger cam shifts the power band of the car higher, a stall enables you to jump into the cam's powerband faster so youll be faster.
What exactly does a high stall do?
1) Higher RPM Launches. This is self explanitory, but so is the search button so ill explain. You can brake stall to a higher rpm and also flash stall to a higher rpm.
2) Static Torque Ratio. I will leave the explaination of this to the experts at Yank
"The stall torque ratio is the amount of engine torque that the torque converter can multiply at a particular rpm level. By definition, stall torque ratio is when the turbine is at 0 RPMs and the converter is at maximum designed stall. This will produce a positive push on the turbine to increase the torque to the input shaft of the transmission, multiplied by the designed stall torque ratio of the torque converter. For example, a stall torque ratio of 2.0 would multiply 200 lb. ft. of engine torque to 400 lb. ft. of torque at the transmission input-shaft. The misconception of stall torque ratio is that more must be better. This is not always the case. High stall torque ratio applications, typically are for industrial equipment or engines with limited low rpm engine torque. With high stall toque ratio converters, there are important trade-offs. What you take at one end you give up on the other. Typically, a torque converter with a very high stall torque ratio, such as 2.0-2.5, will be much less efficient above its rated stall speed. There is a sacrifice in higher rpm efficiency to achieve high stall torque ratios. That lower efficiency translates into less horsepower transmitted to the tires over an RPM range. The problem with a high stall torque ratio converter is that it is only high while the car is not moving. Maximum stall torque ratio occurs at wide open throttle with no rotation of the transmission input shaft. As the input shaft starts to rotate with vehicle forward movement, the stall torque ratio will become non-existent much sooner than a converter of the same stall, with a lower stall torque ratio." (Yank)
3)Shift Extensions. Pretty much the rpm's wont fall down as much between shifts. This also helps deal with the dead spots between gears (like a 45mph with 3.23's).
4)Weight- Aftermarket convertors weigh less and have less rotation mass.
What makes some torque convertors "loose"?
The greater the STR, the tigher the stall will be. For example a 3200rpm 2.2str stall will be looser than a 3200rpm 2.5str stall. Also, as the rpm rating increases, so does the "looseness". For example a 3600rpm 2.5str stall will be looser than a 3200rpm 2.5str stall.
What exactly is "loose"?
Throttle response. On a car with a loose convertor, you simply have to give it more gas to get the car moving.
What is it like to drive a high stall?
The best way to find out is to ask around and find someone local who will let you give their car a test drive.
Here are some videos you can watch to give you an idea of what it is like.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/452527-driving-w-stall-video.html
What stall is the best?
Look into 3200-3500rpm stalls for street duty. Stick with the major brands, i.e. Percision Industries (Vigilante), Yank or TCI. Remeber, you get what you pay for.
Why do LS1's run higher stalls than LT1's???
It is the nature of the engine. To optimize preformance, you want to match the convertor to the engines powerband. The LT1 has great bottom end power where as the LS1 has an awesome top end so a higher stall is needed on the LS1 to optimize preformance.
Will the stall kill my tranny??
I do not know, Im not God. It will add more stress to the internals of the tranny because of the extra power that it produces. Some people have awesome luck with thier tranny, others, not so much
Do i need a tune??
Maybe. Some people have issues with the car hitting the rev limiter on shifts with a stall, a tune can correct this easily. Also, for the full effect, you might want to decrease/delete the torque management.
Will i have to rev the car to 3500rpm with my 3500rpm stall to get it to move from a stop??
Not even close. You just have to give it alittle bit more gas than on the stock stall. I watched my tach today and saw that the revs jump to about 1200-1400rpm to get the car moving from a stop.
Why doesnt my 3500rpm stall to brake stall to 3500rpm??
The convertor is not broken (lets hope), its just that your brakes arent strong enough or tires not sticky enough. If you have tried this, your tires just started spinning because your brakes simply cant hold the car still. You won't be able to reach this rpm unless you have a transbrake. A transbrake locks both forward and reverse gear at the same time which allows it to rev higher and doesnt rely on the brakes or tires.
Whats the best way to launch with a stalled auto??
Every car is different. You just have to play around with launching it at different rpms, brake stalling it or if the tires can gripe, just stomp on the gas pedal.
How much time will i drop??
For me, before the stall, my best time was 12.88@109. After the stall, it turned to 12.86@107 but i was launching soft and spinning, alot. I put on a set of e/t streets, and now run 12.36 @109. So it was a nice e/t reduction. A stall will make the car faster on the track as long as you can get traction.
Is it worth it?
For me, yes. It greatly dropped my times at the track. Its not a mod for everyone. You will have to give it more gas to get it to move around town. If your a speed freak, youll love it.
Should I get gears or a stall?
Try the stall first, it will give the biggest drop in e/t's. If you still want more, change gears.
What is the stock stall speed?
1800 RPM
Whats a 9.5inch stall?
Most aftermarket stalls are 9.5inch units. The stock stall is a 12.0 inch. The 9.5 is lighter than the 12.0 so easier to rev from reduced rotational mass.
Typical converter sizes:
300mm = 12" (stock LS1)
295mm = 11.5" (Stock GM)
245mm = 9.5" (stock 6/4 cyl)
(Thanks to 12secSS for the info)
I bought a XXXXrpm stall made by XXX and my track times suck now, what gives?
Most of the time, your mph will drop due to the stall being not as effecient as the factory one but if all goes right, your e.t. should drop. Check your 60ft time, more than likely your spinning the tires due to the stall transmitting large amounts of torque to the tires. To remedy this, get better tires and work on your launch. The first time you dead hook with a stall is awesome, pure and simple.
I am at the track. Should I shift the car myself or let the car do it?
Leave it in D or OD. You CANNOT shift faster than a computer. Some like to leave it in 3rd so it does not upshift to 4th when you let off. Others find the car shift betters in 4th if they have swapped gears (don't ask why the PCM does it.
)
For reference:
Vig convertors tend to stall higher than advertised. my 3200 is about a 3400-3600 stall.
Tune out T.Q. Management and get mickey thompson e/t streets to fully appreciate the stall.
Mods, id appreciate yall considering making this a sticky.
If i forgot something or messed something up, let me know, ill correct it. As for the spelling, sorry.
Yes. As a by product of the stalling effect, more heat is created. This heat is damaging to the tranny and the way to deal with this is to get another tranny cooler(all Fbodies came from the factory with a external tranny cooler)
Do i need a shift kit with a high stall?
Unlike the cooler, a shift kit is not mandatory but its a good idea. The shifts with a stall might feel a little long so when you add the shift kit, the shifts quicken just a little more than stock.
Do i need a stall with a cam???
Usually. Most people tune the car for the cam which involves raising the idle speed on the car. Without a stall, you will have to just stand on the brakes to keep the car still because the engine is now idleing at 800rpm. Also, a bigger cam shifts the power band of the car higher, a stall enables you to jump into the cam's powerband faster so youll be faster.
What exactly does a high stall do?
1) Higher RPM Launches. This is self explanitory, but so is the search button so ill explain. You can brake stall to a higher rpm and also flash stall to a higher rpm.
2) Static Torque Ratio. I will leave the explaination of this to the experts at Yank
"The stall torque ratio is the amount of engine torque that the torque converter can multiply at a particular rpm level. By definition, stall torque ratio is when the turbine is at 0 RPMs and the converter is at maximum designed stall. This will produce a positive push on the turbine to increase the torque to the input shaft of the transmission, multiplied by the designed stall torque ratio of the torque converter. For example, a stall torque ratio of 2.0 would multiply 200 lb. ft. of engine torque to 400 lb. ft. of torque at the transmission input-shaft. The misconception of stall torque ratio is that more must be better. This is not always the case. High stall torque ratio applications, typically are for industrial equipment or engines with limited low rpm engine torque. With high stall toque ratio converters, there are important trade-offs. What you take at one end you give up on the other. Typically, a torque converter with a very high stall torque ratio, such as 2.0-2.5, will be much less efficient above its rated stall speed. There is a sacrifice in higher rpm efficiency to achieve high stall torque ratios. That lower efficiency translates into less horsepower transmitted to the tires over an RPM range. The problem with a high stall torque ratio converter is that it is only high while the car is not moving. Maximum stall torque ratio occurs at wide open throttle with no rotation of the transmission input shaft. As the input shaft starts to rotate with vehicle forward movement, the stall torque ratio will become non-existent much sooner than a converter of the same stall, with a lower stall torque ratio." (Yank)
3)Shift Extensions. Pretty much the rpm's wont fall down as much between shifts. This also helps deal with the dead spots between gears (like a 45mph with 3.23's).
4)Weight- Aftermarket convertors weigh less and have less rotation mass.
What makes some torque convertors "loose"?
The greater the STR, the tigher the stall will be. For example a 3200rpm 2.2str stall will be looser than a 3200rpm 2.5str stall. Also, as the rpm rating increases, so does the "looseness". For example a 3600rpm 2.5str stall will be looser than a 3200rpm 2.5str stall.
What exactly is "loose"?
Throttle response. On a car with a loose convertor, you simply have to give it more gas to get the car moving.
What is it like to drive a high stall?
The best way to find out is to ask around and find someone local who will let you give their car a test drive.
Here are some videos you can watch to give you an idea of what it is like.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/452527-driving-w-stall-video.html
What stall is the best?
Look into 3200-3500rpm stalls for street duty. Stick with the major brands, i.e. Percision Industries (Vigilante), Yank or TCI. Remeber, you get what you pay for.
Why do LS1's run higher stalls than LT1's???
It is the nature of the engine. To optimize preformance, you want to match the convertor to the engines powerband. The LT1 has great bottom end power where as the LS1 has an awesome top end so a higher stall is needed on the LS1 to optimize preformance.
Will the stall kill my tranny??
I do not know, Im not God. It will add more stress to the internals of the tranny because of the extra power that it produces. Some people have awesome luck with thier tranny, others, not so much
Do i need a tune??
Maybe. Some people have issues with the car hitting the rev limiter on shifts with a stall, a tune can correct this easily. Also, for the full effect, you might want to decrease/delete the torque management.
Will i have to rev the car to 3500rpm with my 3500rpm stall to get it to move from a stop??
Not even close. You just have to give it alittle bit more gas than on the stock stall. I watched my tach today and saw that the revs jump to about 1200-1400rpm to get the car moving from a stop.
Why doesnt my 3500rpm stall to brake stall to 3500rpm??
The convertor is not broken (lets hope), its just that your brakes arent strong enough or tires not sticky enough. If you have tried this, your tires just started spinning because your brakes simply cant hold the car still. You won't be able to reach this rpm unless you have a transbrake. A transbrake locks both forward and reverse gear at the same time which allows it to rev higher and doesnt rely on the brakes or tires.
Whats the best way to launch with a stalled auto??
Every car is different. You just have to play around with launching it at different rpms, brake stalling it or if the tires can gripe, just stomp on the gas pedal.
How much time will i drop??
For me, before the stall, my best time was 12.88@109. After the stall, it turned to 12.86@107 but i was launching soft and spinning, alot. I put on a set of e/t streets, and now run 12.36 @109. So it was a nice e/t reduction. A stall will make the car faster on the track as long as you can get traction.
Is it worth it?
For me, yes. It greatly dropped my times at the track. Its not a mod for everyone. You will have to give it more gas to get it to move around town. If your a speed freak, youll love it.
Should I get gears or a stall?
Try the stall first, it will give the biggest drop in e/t's. If you still want more, change gears.
What is the stock stall speed?
1800 RPM
Whats a 9.5inch stall?
Most aftermarket stalls are 9.5inch units. The stock stall is a 12.0 inch. The 9.5 is lighter than the 12.0 so easier to rev from reduced rotational mass.
Typical converter sizes:
300mm = 12" (stock LS1)
295mm = 11.5" (Stock GM)
245mm = 9.5" (stock 6/4 cyl)
(Thanks to 12secSS for the info)
I bought a XXXXrpm stall made by XXX and my track times suck now, what gives?
Most of the time, your mph will drop due to the stall being not as effecient as the factory one but if all goes right, your e.t. should drop. Check your 60ft time, more than likely your spinning the tires due to the stall transmitting large amounts of torque to the tires. To remedy this, get better tires and work on your launch. The first time you dead hook with a stall is awesome, pure and simple.
I am at the track. Should I shift the car myself or let the car do it?
Leave it in D or OD. You CANNOT shift faster than a computer. Some like to leave it in 3rd so it does not upshift to 4th when you let off. Others find the car shift betters in 4th if they have swapped gears (don't ask why the PCM does it.
)For reference:
Vig convertors tend to stall higher than advertised. my 3200 is about a 3400-3600 stall.
Tune out T.Q. Management and get mickey thompson e/t streets to fully appreciate the stall.
Mods, id appreciate yall considering making this a sticky.
If i forgot something or messed something up, let me know, ill correct it. As for the spelling, sorry.
Last edited by Ragtop 99; 01-27-2008 at 05:52 PM.
06-11-2007, 11:59 PM
#2
SOME INFORMATION COPIED FROM YANKS WEB SITE OF INTEREST CONCERNING STR
Stall Torque Ratio is one of the most misunderstood aspects of torque converter construction. Our competitors often call stall torque ratio: torque multiplier. The stall torque ratio is the amount of engine torque that the torque converter can multiply at a particular rpm level. By definition, stall torque ratio is when the turbine is at 0 RPMs and the converter is at maximum designed stall. This will produce a positive push on the turbine to increase the torque to the input shaft of the transmission, multiplied by the designed stall torque ratio of the torque converter. For example, a stall torque ratio of 2.0 would multiply 200 lb. ft. of engine torque to 400 lb. ft. of torque at the transmission input-shaft.
The misconception of stall torque ratio is that more must be better. This is not always the case. High stall torque ratio applications, typically are for industrial equipment or engines with limited low rpm engine torque. With high stall toque ratio converters, there are important trade-offs. What you take at one end you give up on the other. Typically, a torque converter with a very high stall torque ratio, such as 2.0-2.5, will be much less efficient above its rated stall speed. There is a sacrifice in higher rpm efficiency to achieve high stall torque ratios. That lower efficiency translates into less horsepower transmitted to the tires over an RPM range.
The problem with a high stall torque ratio converter is that it is only high while the car is not moving. Maximum stall torque ratio occurs at wide open throttle with no rotation of the transmission input shaft. As the input shaft starts to rotate with vehicle forward movement, the stall torque ratio will become non-existent much sooner than a converter of the same stall, with a lower stall torque ratio. A converter with a stall torque ratio of 2.2 for example, would display that at the starting line, but it would drop off much sooner than a converter with a lower stall torque ratio. See graph:
As you can see, the converter with the lower stall torque ratio will multiply torque for a longer period of time than the converter with a higher stall torque ratio. As most of you know, most racing occurs above 3,000 RPMs. That's why the lower stall torque ratio often wins the race:
*Lower stall torque ratio is gentler on the tires at the initial launch, but it will pull harder for the remaining 1,305 ft. of the 1/4 mile. Less races will be lost at the starting line from excessive wheelspin.
Lower stall torque ratio will be more efficient and transmit more torque and horsepower to the tires. This translates into lower ETs and higher trap speeds!
Stall Torque Ratio is one of the most misunderstood aspects of torque converter construction. Our competitors often call stall torque ratio: torque multiplier. The stall torque ratio is the amount of engine torque that the torque converter can multiply at a particular rpm level. By definition, stall torque ratio is when the turbine is at 0 RPMs and the converter is at maximum designed stall. This will produce a positive push on the turbine to increase the torque to the input shaft of the transmission, multiplied by the designed stall torque ratio of the torque converter. For example, a stall torque ratio of 2.0 would multiply 200 lb. ft. of engine torque to 400 lb. ft. of torque at the transmission input-shaft.
The misconception of stall torque ratio is that more must be better. This is not always the case. High stall torque ratio applications, typically are for industrial equipment or engines with limited low rpm engine torque. With high stall toque ratio converters, there are important trade-offs. What you take at one end you give up on the other. Typically, a torque converter with a very high stall torque ratio, such as 2.0-2.5, will be much less efficient above its rated stall speed. There is a sacrifice in higher rpm efficiency to achieve high stall torque ratios. That lower efficiency translates into less horsepower transmitted to the tires over an RPM range.
The problem with a high stall torque ratio converter is that it is only high while the car is not moving. Maximum stall torque ratio occurs at wide open throttle with no rotation of the transmission input shaft. As the input shaft starts to rotate with vehicle forward movement, the stall torque ratio will become non-existent much sooner than a converter of the same stall, with a lower stall torque ratio. A converter with a stall torque ratio of 2.2 for example, would display that at the starting line, but it would drop off much sooner than a converter with a lower stall torque ratio. See graph:
For example: A competitor's converter with a claimed stall torque ratio of 2.5 (red graph line) would typically have an efficiency of around 90% at high RPMs (5,000 plus). That means 300 flywheel horsepower would translate to 270 horsepower at the transmission input-shaft. A Super Yank Converter with a stall torque ratio of 1.6 (green graph line) has efficiency in the 97% range. That means a 300 horsepower engine would transmit 291 horsepower to the transmission input-shaft: A gain of 21 horsepower!
As you can see, the converter with the lower stall torque ratio will multiply torque for a longer period of time than the converter with a higher stall torque ratio. As most of you know, most racing occurs above 3,000 RPMs. That's why the lower stall torque ratio often wins the race:
*Lower stall torque ratio is gentler on the tires at the initial launch, but it will pull harder for the remaining 1,305 ft. of the 1/4 mile. Less races will be lost at the starting line from excessive wheelspin.
Lower stall torque ratio will be more efficient and transmit more torque and horsepower to the tires. This translates into lower ETs and higher trap speeds!
__________________
Last edited by performabuilt; 06-12-2007 at 04:13 PM.
06-13-2007, 03:53 PM
#3
TRANSMISSION COMMON QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
1-What size are the TORX screws that holds my bellhousing to my transmission, and what is the best way to remove them?
The bit is called a T50 plus and is available from sonnax and snapon. However, you can use a modified T50. Purchase a quality T50 bit and grind about 1/32 inch off the end. Do not use the bits with a hole in the end. The grind amount is approx. as it varies from one brand to another, but the goal is to grind until the bit fits tight in the screw head. The bits get progressively larger as they get near the top, so grinding more off effectively makes the bit larger. Then bear in mind that the screws are held in with red loctite, so they are held in fairly tight. Use small propane torch (the ones that cost around 5 dollars at the hardware store) and heat the thread end (not the bolt head) to around 275 to 300 degrees. Then (generally) the screws will come right out. Make sure you have the bit lined up straight in the screw, and keep it that way. Do not use an impact wrench - if it jumps out it will strip the bolt. Then you would have a much larger problem.
2-Why doesn’t my speedometer work?
Check that the Vehicle Speed Sensor (for 4L60E/65E) or speedometer cable (for 700R) is connected. On 4L60E/65E units this may cause a no shift situation or erratic shifts. Note: The 700R4 does not have the correct speedometer gears installed, so you must take the gears and driven assembly from your old unit and install them on the new 700R4.
3- My new transmission is installed, and it doesn’t shift. It also feels like it is slipping or in a higher gear than what I expected.
Check that the wiring harness is fully plugged into the transmission, Check all fuses, and see if the engine SES light is on (you can also scan for codes), If the SES light is on, or codes are present, this is generally considered an electronics issue. If it’s a 700R4, did you hook up the TV cable?
4-I have a 3000 or higher stall converter and I just installed my new 4L60E. When I drive normally everything feels great, but at full throttle I bounce off the rev limiter.
Many 4L60E cars with a stall at or over 3000 rpm may require the tuning parameters for speed and rpm be reconfigured to compensate for the higher stall. (This is sometimes refered to as stall wall)
5-I just installed my new transmission (or converter) and it does not move. What could be wrong?
The most common reason for this is that the converter was not fully seated in the pump, which should have shown itself when there was difficulty turning the converter, Provided you have enough fluid in it. Remove one line from the transmission cooler, Start the vehicle and fluid should come spraying out, If this does not happen, you may have broken the pump and will need to remove the transmission and repair. Hopefully, you have not destroyed converter.
6-How much fluild do I need for my install,
Get a case and add till full you may have a couple left over but its better to have that than not enough when all the stores are closed.
8-My converter in my 4L60/65 dosent lock up or only locks up intermitantly.
The most common cause of this issue is misfire it may not show as a code but in some cars will cause the SES light to blink irrratically, Also note the engine temp must be above 135 f for the PCM to allow lockup. If you have and SES light on as always scan for codes first then contact us for help.
9-I was driving my car at WOT and it would not shift into 4th whats wrong?
Nothing unless you have the 4L60E PCM programed to make a WOT 4th shift it is disallowed in the factory tune. The 700R4 alternatley cannot do a WOT shift into fourth unless it has a modiied TV plunger sleeve .
10-My 700R4 or 4L60E will shift from first to second even when I have it in manual low is something wrong?
No both trans, but for different reasons are comanded to upshift at very high rpm or speed from first gear, Each require a special shift kit to avoid this, This kit is only available in our level 3 units.
11- My speedometer is not working and my car wont change gears,
Check for codes and the wiring of your VSS (vehicle speed censor) this measure ment is required for shifts to properly occur.
13 – What’s this little bag of seals for that came with my transmission?
That bag contains seals for different applications. You may, or may not, need some of them. Just use what you need to install your particular transmission and do not worry about the rest.
16 - How do I test my stall speed?
Truly accurate testing of a converter stall is nearly impossible once you install it in your car. You can get some idea using a transbrake. Barring that, the next best thing would be to put the car in limp mode, 3rd gear, and nail it suddenly. Then watch the tach. The rpm it flashes to is close to your stall speed. Brake stalling is meaningless and gives no useful information.
17 - There is a clunking sound when my car shifts. What could it be?
Check the torque arm and mount. They are the most common reasons.
18 - My car has second gear start capability and/or a performance shift button. Will these still work with your transmission?
Yes these are functions of the PCM not the transmission. They will continue to function as they did before, although a bit enhanced in the performance mode.
19-My car cannot select first gear or has no first gear position. Why, and what can I do?
Some models have a plastic stop formed in the gate. Simply remove the console, cut off the plastic piece, and you will be able to select 1st gear manually.
20-I just installed my converter and I’m getting code PO7xx. What’s wrong and what should I do?
These codes are sometime set when a high stall (usually higher than 3000) is installed, but not always and not always immediately. They can be corrected through tuning when the PCM does not understand the RPM/SPEED offset with the new converter. From my understanding this involves removing the test for the code, not simply clearing the code.
24-Do I need to have a cooler with my converter or transmission?
The answer to this question is yes and we furnish every unit with one. While not having a cooler is not going to cause your transmission to die tomorrow, heat will kill it in the long run by hardening seals and gaskets. Having a stall converter will only compound this problem. Installing a cooler is just a good idea.
26-I just changed my rear end ratio. Now my transmission doesn’t shift right. It shifts too early or too late. What is wrong, and what should I do?
When making a gear change it is necessary to reprogram the PCM for the new gear ratio. This must be done with some form of tuning software.
27-EFILIVE can remove test for the code PO757 caused by high stall converters on the 05/06 GTOs
Note some numbers are skipped this is because this info is taken from our FAQ page http://performabuiltautomatics.com/hauler/FAQ.html And some information only pertains to our products and this is and information thread.
1-What size are the TORX screws that holds my bellhousing to my transmission, and what is the best way to remove them?
The bit is called a T50 plus and is available from sonnax and snapon. However, you can use a modified T50. Purchase a quality T50 bit and grind about 1/32 inch off the end. Do not use the bits with a hole in the end. The grind amount is approx. as it varies from one brand to another, but the goal is to grind until the bit fits tight in the screw head. The bits get progressively larger as they get near the top, so grinding more off effectively makes the bit larger. Then bear in mind that the screws are held in with red loctite, so they are held in fairly tight. Use small propane torch (the ones that cost around 5 dollars at the hardware store) and heat the thread end (not the bolt head) to around 275 to 300 degrees. Then (generally) the screws will come right out. Make sure you have the bit lined up straight in the screw, and keep it that way. Do not use an impact wrench - if it jumps out it will strip the bolt. Then you would have a much larger problem.
2-Why doesn’t my speedometer work?
Check that the Vehicle Speed Sensor (for 4L60E/65E) or speedometer cable (for 700R) is connected. On 4L60E/65E units this may cause a no shift situation or erratic shifts. Note: The 700R4 does not have the correct speedometer gears installed, so you must take the gears and driven assembly from your old unit and install them on the new 700R4.
3- My new transmission is installed, and it doesn’t shift. It also feels like it is slipping or in a higher gear than what I expected.
Check that the wiring harness is fully plugged into the transmission, Check all fuses, and see if the engine SES light is on (you can also scan for codes), If the SES light is on, or codes are present, this is generally considered an electronics issue. If it’s a 700R4, did you hook up the TV cable?
4-I have a 3000 or higher stall converter and I just installed my new 4L60E. When I drive normally everything feels great, but at full throttle I bounce off the rev limiter.
Many 4L60E cars with a stall at or over 3000 rpm may require the tuning parameters for speed and rpm be reconfigured to compensate for the higher stall. (This is sometimes refered to as stall wall)
5-I just installed my new transmission (or converter) and it does not move. What could be wrong?
The most common reason for this is that the converter was not fully seated in the pump, which should have shown itself when there was difficulty turning the converter, Provided you have enough fluid in it. Remove one line from the transmission cooler, Start the vehicle and fluid should come spraying out, If this does not happen, you may have broken the pump and will need to remove the transmission and repair. Hopefully, you have not destroyed converter.
6-How much fluild do I need for my install,
Get a case and add till full you may have a couple left over but its better to have that than not enough when all the stores are closed.
8-My converter in my 4L60/65 dosent lock up or only locks up intermitantly.
The most common cause of this issue is misfire it may not show as a code but in some cars will cause the SES light to blink irrratically, Also note the engine temp must be above 135 f for the PCM to allow lockup. If you have and SES light on as always scan for codes first then contact us for help.
9-I was driving my car at WOT and it would not shift into 4th whats wrong?
Nothing unless you have the 4L60E PCM programed to make a WOT 4th shift it is disallowed in the factory tune. The 700R4 alternatley cannot do a WOT shift into fourth unless it has a modiied TV plunger sleeve .
10-My 700R4 or 4L60E will shift from first to second even when I have it in manual low is something wrong?
No both trans, but for different reasons are comanded to upshift at very high rpm or speed from first gear, Each require a special shift kit to avoid this, This kit is only available in our level 3 units.
11- My speedometer is not working and my car wont change gears,
Check for codes and the wiring of your VSS (vehicle speed censor) this measure ment is required for shifts to properly occur.
13 – What’s this little bag of seals for that came with my transmission?
That bag contains seals for different applications. You may, or may not, need some of them. Just use what you need to install your particular transmission and do not worry about the rest.
16 - How do I test my stall speed?
Truly accurate testing of a converter stall is nearly impossible once you install it in your car. You can get some idea using a transbrake. Barring that, the next best thing would be to put the car in limp mode, 3rd gear, and nail it suddenly. Then watch the tach. The rpm it flashes to is close to your stall speed. Brake stalling is meaningless and gives no useful information.
17 - There is a clunking sound when my car shifts. What could it be?
Check the torque arm and mount. They are the most common reasons.
18 - My car has second gear start capability and/or a performance shift button. Will these still work with your transmission?
Yes these are functions of the PCM not the transmission. They will continue to function as they did before, although a bit enhanced in the performance mode.
19-My car cannot select first gear or has no first gear position. Why, and what can I do?
Some models have a plastic stop formed in the gate. Simply remove the console, cut off the plastic piece, and you will be able to select 1st gear manually.
20-I just installed my converter and I’m getting code PO7xx. What’s wrong and what should I do?
These codes are sometime set when a high stall (usually higher than 3000) is installed, but not always and not always immediately. They can be corrected through tuning when the PCM does not understand the RPM/SPEED offset with the new converter. From my understanding this involves removing the test for the code, not simply clearing the code.
24-Do I need to have a cooler with my converter or transmission?
The answer to this question is yes and we furnish every unit with one. While not having a cooler is not going to cause your transmission to die tomorrow, heat will kill it in the long run by hardening seals and gaskets. Having a stall converter will only compound this problem. Installing a cooler is just a good idea.
26-I just changed my rear end ratio. Now my transmission doesn’t shift right. It shifts too early or too late. What is wrong, and what should I do?
When making a gear change it is necessary to reprogram the PCM for the new gear ratio. This must be done with some form of tuning software.
27-EFILIVE can remove test for the code PO757 caused by high stall converters on the 05/06 GTOs
Note some numbers are skipped this is because this info is taken from our FAQ page http://performabuiltautomatics.com/hauler/FAQ.html And some information only pertains to our products and this is and information thread.
__________________
Last edited by Ragtop 99; 11-22-2007 at 06:53 PM.
07-12-2007, 05:38 PM
#4
More tech information TRANSMISSIONS GENERAL TECH INFORMATION: 4L60/65E AND 700R4
1-SHIFT KITS and shift points. Though shift kits do improve shifts and reduce slip, this has no affect on when the transmission shifts. In the 700R4 this is a function of governor pressure versus TV pressure. It is somewhat adjustable with the TV cable setting. On the 4L60e, however, it is strictly a PCM programming function. Though you may be able to hold gears down by using the shifter, you cannot cause the up shift to occur before the PCM commands it. In the 4L60e the up shifts are completely at the mercy of the PCM. The 4L60e can only do what it’s told, it has no mind of its own.
The 4L60e is dependent on many things to determine shift timing. They are listed below in descending order:
A-Vehicle speed and engine rpm. I list these together because there is an interdependency between them
B-Throttle position. Determines shift firmness and greatly affects kick down and part throttle up shifts.
C-Mass air flow or speed density. Though this does not greatly affect shift timing normally, it does affect shift firmness and can cause erratic shift if faulty or incorrect. Also note that in some cases with large cams and issue with the MAF may cause quick shifts from 1-2-3-4 at WOT and require adjustment of the MAF tables in the tune. Basically a MAF sensor is a piece of resistive wire. A current is passed through it as air travels across this wire it is cooled when a conductor is cooled resistance decreases and current can increase and when warmer resistance is increased and current is decreased. This current is what the PCM reads to determine how much air is entering the engine. This is then compared to set parameters in the PCM program as a determining factor for everything from fuel to air ratio to estimated engine torque output. This in turn affects trans line pressure and in extreme cases can have and affect on shift timing (CAMS,INTAKE,HEADS) can affect to this level. Other things that can affect it is a dirty air filter, Over oiled air filter in the case of the latter the oil can actually coat the resistive wire and insulate it causing the air passing over the wire to be unable to cool the wire lowering its resistance and increasing current. When this happens several things can be misinterpreted by the PCM Because the wire is warmer and the current lower the PCM may lower line pressure or, make the car run lean since basically the PCM thinks the car is taking in less air than it actually is making the PCM assume less torque or power output from the engine and to some level may even cause this to be true by leaning out the mixture significantly. Now in the case of the head and cam package etc you can get a reverse affect your taking in more air than the PCM determines based on the current passing through the MAF since the PCM is programmed that a given current equals a certain amount of air based on the original engine specs and the RPM the engine is turning along with throttle opening, When you change the ability of the engine to take in air the programs used to compare these variables become inaccurate and can again adversely affect engine and transmission operation. Its very important to make sure when doing engine mods that the person doing the tuning alterations or if doing them your self you understand all of these things well. Since not only can this hurt the performance of your car. It can also in extreme cases cause damage to your trans and even your engine. Tuning is not as simple as trans and engine they are heavily intertwined.
2-Converter lockup.Lockup is controlled by the PCM. Full throttle lockup is not possible or preferred with factory tuning, but can be accomplished with PCM tuning. However, it may smoke the converter clutch prematurely.
3-Manual shifting of transmission. Contrary to popular thought, doing this occasionally will not hurt your unit. In fact, there are some instances where it can be beneficial. For example, when roll racing, bringing on the low clutch by manually putting the transmission into first helps support the low and input sprags. Another example would be burn outs, as again it will help to support the sprags by turning on the low clutch and the overrun clutch. Placing the transmission in D3 rather than the OD position is always a good idea when using nitrous or turbo/supercharger applications. Although we use the strongest sprag available, the BorgWarner dual cage input sprag it is still the weakest link in the transmission. Also, the overrun clutch being on to help support it is a good idea. Note however that on our level three unit (which is capable of downshifting to manual first at any speed) there is a risk of over revving the engine and causing damage to the engine.
4-Transmission temperature. Transmission temperature is something you hear discussed quite often. However it is not as critical as some would have you believe. Short of boiling the fluid there are seldom short term issues. You can tell if the fluid is boiling because it would generally spray out the vent tube on top of the transmission. High transmission temperatures will cause damage over a long period of time through the hardening of seals and breakdown of fluid into varnish. It will not kill your transmission overnight but over a longer period it can. As long as you keep the transmission temperature under 230 degrees (normally lower is better of course) and under 250 intermittently you should be fine. After several stalls in a row, the temperature will rise for a short period of time. Note: The temperature reading on your gauge will vary according to the location of the sending unit can have a major affect on the temps you see. The pan is the best location to get this reading from. But it’s always true that a cooler is excellent insurance.
5-PWM (Pulse Width Modulation). What is it and how does it affect my car? PWM is the controlled slip of your converter, which basically allows the converter clutch to partially lock at lower speeds to improve fuel economy. However, this generates heat and puts wear on the converter clutch. While this is not a big problem with an OEM sized converter, it is a problem with the smaller 8-9-10 inch converters because they do not have enough clutch surface area, and they can’t absorb the extra heat generated. Nor do they have the friction area for the slip to be properly controlled by the PCM. PWM should be eliminated in any high performance application (and really any application). This function is the source of the code 1870. This function is eliminated on all our transmissions.
6-RPM AND ITS EFFECT ON TRANS LIFE, RPM as with any part of the drive train does take its toll however a properly built trans should be able to tach through 7000 with no issue. This is not true about a stock or stock rebuilt transmission. There are issues which may occur when the trans is not properly prepared. Low HI RPM pressure and undesired 3-4 clutch apply when the car is not in 3rd gear burning the clutch. MAX rpm for a stock 4L60E/65 should be no more than 6000 rpm for any extended period. Built units can do much more.
7-Vacume modulation in the 4l60e and 4l80e: Using vacuum modulation in these trans was created by TRANSGO to control line presure in and other than electronic means. While we do not incorporate this into all our units and believe the PCS is ultimately the better system. Not saying others ways aren’t fine to there are many HI HP cars running the vac mod too. There are certain instances where this mod may be beneficial. Instances of this would be when setting up the trans with a full manual valve body with no electronics for applications with no ECM. Another use though debatable would be in the case of chronic pressure control issues. Though this would be curing the symptom and not the cause as a last resort when all other avenues have failed it can and will solve the issue. You must however bear in mind that the issue causing the PCM to command the wrong line pressure may also be affecting your performance in other areas and everything possible should be done to find the cause. We do however prefer to stay with the PCS system since it can better meter line to many variables and make the vehicle much more adaptive to various situations.
8-Presure control do’s and don’ts (This is covered in another sticky pretty well)
Again this is information copied from our website and has been edited to not come across as and advertisement just some good information.
9-Coolers and Fluid Changes. See this Thread for more info.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/886087-tech-info-codes-coolers-fluid-levels-cooler-flush-more.html
1-SHIFT KITS and shift points. Though shift kits do improve shifts and reduce slip, this has no affect on when the transmission shifts. In the 700R4 this is a function of governor pressure versus TV pressure. It is somewhat adjustable with the TV cable setting. On the 4L60e, however, it is strictly a PCM programming function. Though you may be able to hold gears down by using the shifter, you cannot cause the up shift to occur before the PCM commands it. In the 4L60e the up shifts are completely at the mercy of the PCM. The 4L60e can only do what it’s told, it has no mind of its own.
The 4L60e is dependent on many things to determine shift timing. They are listed below in descending order:
A-Vehicle speed and engine rpm. I list these together because there is an interdependency between them
B-Throttle position. Determines shift firmness and greatly affects kick down and part throttle up shifts.
C-Mass air flow or speed density. Though this does not greatly affect shift timing normally, it does affect shift firmness and can cause erratic shift if faulty or incorrect. Also note that in some cases with large cams and issue with the MAF may cause quick shifts from 1-2-3-4 at WOT and require adjustment of the MAF tables in the tune. Basically a MAF sensor is a piece of resistive wire. A current is passed through it as air travels across this wire it is cooled when a conductor is cooled resistance decreases and current can increase and when warmer resistance is increased and current is decreased. This current is what the PCM reads to determine how much air is entering the engine. This is then compared to set parameters in the PCM program as a determining factor for everything from fuel to air ratio to estimated engine torque output. This in turn affects trans line pressure and in extreme cases can have and affect on shift timing (CAMS,INTAKE,HEADS) can affect to this level. Other things that can affect it is a dirty air filter, Over oiled air filter in the case of the latter the oil can actually coat the resistive wire and insulate it causing the air passing over the wire to be unable to cool the wire lowering its resistance and increasing current. When this happens several things can be misinterpreted by the PCM Because the wire is warmer and the current lower the PCM may lower line pressure or, make the car run lean since basically the PCM thinks the car is taking in less air than it actually is making the PCM assume less torque or power output from the engine and to some level may even cause this to be true by leaning out the mixture significantly. Now in the case of the head and cam package etc you can get a reverse affect your taking in more air than the PCM determines based on the current passing through the MAF since the PCM is programmed that a given current equals a certain amount of air based on the original engine specs and the RPM the engine is turning along with throttle opening, When you change the ability of the engine to take in air the programs used to compare these variables become inaccurate and can again adversely affect engine and transmission operation. Its very important to make sure when doing engine mods that the person doing the tuning alterations or if doing them your self you understand all of these things well. Since not only can this hurt the performance of your car. It can also in extreme cases cause damage to your trans and even your engine. Tuning is not as simple as trans and engine they are heavily intertwined.
2-Converter lockup.Lockup is controlled by the PCM. Full throttle lockup is not possible or preferred with factory tuning, but can be accomplished with PCM tuning. However, it may smoke the converter clutch prematurely.
3-Manual shifting of transmission. Contrary to popular thought, doing this occasionally will not hurt your unit. In fact, there are some instances where it can be beneficial. For example, when roll racing, bringing on the low clutch by manually putting the transmission into first helps support the low and input sprags. Another example would be burn outs, as again it will help to support the sprags by turning on the low clutch and the overrun clutch. Placing the transmission in D3 rather than the OD position is always a good idea when using nitrous or turbo/supercharger applications. Although we use the strongest sprag available, the BorgWarner dual cage input sprag it is still the weakest link in the transmission. Also, the overrun clutch being on to help support it is a good idea. Note however that on our level three unit (which is capable of downshifting to manual first at any speed) there is a risk of over revving the engine and causing damage to the engine.
4-Transmission temperature. Transmission temperature is something you hear discussed quite often. However it is not as critical as some would have you believe. Short of boiling the fluid there are seldom short term issues. You can tell if the fluid is boiling because it would generally spray out the vent tube on top of the transmission. High transmission temperatures will cause damage over a long period of time through the hardening of seals and breakdown of fluid into varnish. It will not kill your transmission overnight but over a longer period it can. As long as you keep the transmission temperature under 230 degrees (normally lower is better of course) and under 250 intermittently you should be fine. After several stalls in a row, the temperature will rise for a short period of time. Note: The temperature reading on your gauge will vary according to the location of the sending unit can have a major affect on the temps you see. The pan is the best location to get this reading from. But it’s always true that a cooler is excellent insurance.
5-PWM (Pulse Width Modulation). What is it and how does it affect my car? PWM is the controlled slip of your converter, which basically allows the converter clutch to partially lock at lower speeds to improve fuel economy. However, this generates heat and puts wear on the converter clutch. While this is not a big problem with an OEM sized converter, it is a problem with the smaller 8-9-10 inch converters because they do not have enough clutch surface area, and they can’t absorb the extra heat generated. Nor do they have the friction area for the slip to be properly controlled by the PCM. PWM should be eliminated in any high performance application (and really any application). This function is the source of the code 1870. This function is eliminated on all our transmissions.
6-RPM AND ITS EFFECT ON TRANS LIFE, RPM as with any part of the drive train does take its toll however a properly built trans should be able to tach through 7000 with no issue. This is not true about a stock or stock rebuilt transmission. There are issues which may occur when the trans is not properly prepared. Low HI RPM pressure and undesired 3-4 clutch apply when the car is not in 3rd gear burning the clutch. MAX rpm for a stock 4L60E/65 should be no more than 6000 rpm for any extended period. Built units can do much more.
7-Vacume modulation in the 4l60e and 4l80e: Using vacuum modulation in these trans was created by TRANSGO to control line presure in and other than electronic means. While we do not incorporate this into all our units and believe the PCS is ultimately the better system. Not saying others ways aren’t fine to there are many HI HP cars running the vac mod too. There are certain instances where this mod may be beneficial. Instances of this would be when setting up the trans with a full manual valve body with no electronics for applications with no ECM. Another use though debatable would be in the case of chronic pressure control issues. Though this would be curing the symptom and not the cause as a last resort when all other avenues have failed it can and will solve the issue. You must however bear in mind that the issue causing the PCM to command the wrong line pressure may also be affecting your performance in other areas and everything possible should be done to find the cause. We do however prefer to stay with the PCS system since it can better meter line to many variables and make the vehicle much more adaptive to various situations.
8-Presure control do’s and don’ts (This is covered in another sticky pretty well)
Again this is information copied from our website and has been edited to not come across as and advertisement just some good information.
9-Coolers and Fluid Changes. See this Thread for more info.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/886087-tech-info-codes-coolers-fluid-levels-cooler-flush-more.html
__________________
Last edited by Ragtop 99; 08-14-2008 at 10:23 AM.
09-06-2007, 05:04 PM
#5
If you ever wanted to know what tranny came in what vehicle-
http://www.drivetrain.com/autotranscrossref.html
http://www.drivetrain.com/autotranscrossref.html
