2007 Monaro built in the United States.
12-02-2004, 10:56 PM
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2007 Monaro built in the United States. I would be sooo pissed if I were an Aussie.
Hmm sells great down under, sells slow in the States solution? build it in the States? (Yes I know they're doing this because of brand consolidation on Zeta)
Good news for the GTO I guess.
Hmm sells great down under, sells slow in the States solution? build it in the States? (Yes I know they're doing this because of brand consolidation on Zeta)
Good news for the GTO I guess.
Hands off our Monaro!
The Sydney Morning Herald
Friday November 26 2004
Americans like our coupe so much they want to build it themselves, reports JOSHUA DOWLING.
Holden is on the verge of losing assembly of the Monaro to the US. The new model, due in 2007, is expected to be built in one of several under-used General Motors factories in America.
If assembly of the Monaro is moved from Australia it will be a cruel blow for the coupe that was built after visitors to the 1998 Sydney motor show lobbied Holden to bring the car to life.
Once it was built, the Monaro was so highly regarded by GM's global product chief Bob Lutz that he fast-tracked the Monaro's export to the US as a Pontiac GTO. But now, because the GTO outsells the Monaro by almost five to one, the Americans want to take control of the Commodore-based coupe's assembly. Pontiac has sold 9487 GTOs in the US in the first 10 months of 2004. Holden has sold 2149 Monaros in the same period.
A Holden insider says customers don't care where a car is made as long as the quality is good. However, General Motors - and US car makers in general - are regularly out-classed in independent quality surveys.
Holden spokesman Jason Laird says GM executives in Australia and the US are still in discussion about the Monaro's future production plans. "It's by no means a done deal and there is still a lot of debate on this issue," Laird says.
"There is an argument that the car should be made in the country that sells the most [coupes]. What's most important to us is that Holden will still be able to offer a coupe to Australians. The spiritual home for the coupe is still very much Australia and Australians will still be involved in the engineering of the car."
The news of the Monaro's US assembly plans comes as Pontiac announced it would cut the number of GTOs it orders from Australia. The GTO was meant to be a big boost for the struggling Pontiac brand but sales have not met expectations.
Despite the 2005 GTO's major power upgrade (in the form of a 6.0-litre V8 engine from the new Corvette) and a more aggressive appearance (thanks to new bonnet scoops), Pontiac sales forecasts are still pessimistic.
Respected US industry journal Automotive News reported this week that Pontiac will cut GTO production by about 30 percent next year.
Automotive News says that Larry Pryg, marketing manager for Pontiac's premium mid-sized cars, acknowledges Pontiac did not conduct enough initial market research on the GTO and misallocated inventory.
The magazine quotes Pryg as saying that the next generation GTO (which will share most if its components and body panels with the next generation Monaro) will "start from scratch with something for US tastes. We are going to stretch, but there will only be a few retro cues."
Should Holden fight to keep Monaro assembly in Australia?
Email drive@smh.com.au
Two scoops, please
Holden is being selective about whom it sells the new, vented Monaro bonnets to after a rush from people fitting them to older Commodores. The VZ Monaro bonnet (pictured) costs $984.50. "That bonnet is specific to the VZ Monaro and is designed to protect the identity of that car. We don't want to see that diluted by having those bonnets on other cars." says Holden.
The Sydney Morning Herald
Friday November 26 2004
Americans like our coupe so much they want to build it themselves, reports JOSHUA DOWLING.
Holden is on the verge of losing assembly of the Monaro to the US. The new model, due in 2007, is expected to be built in one of several under-used General Motors factories in America.
If assembly of the Monaro is moved from Australia it will be a cruel blow for the coupe that was built after visitors to the 1998 Sydney motor show lobbied Holden to bring the car to life.
Once it was built, the Monaro was so highly regarded by GM's global product chief Bob Lutz that he fast-tracked the Monaro's export to the US as a Pontiac GTO. But now, because the GTO outsells the Monaro by almost five to one, the Americans want to take control of the Commodore-based coupe's assembly. Pontiac has sold 9487 GTOs in the US in the first 10 months of 2004. Holden has sold 2149 Monaros in the same period.
A Holden insider says customers don't care where a car is made as long as the quality is good. However, General Motors - and US car makers in general - are regularly out-classed in independent quality surveys.
Holden spokesman Jason Laird says GM executives in Australia and the US are still in discussion about the Monaro's future production plans. "It's by no means a done deal and there is still a lot of debate on this issue," Laird says.
"There is an argument that the car should be made in the country that sells the most [coupes]. What's most important to us is that Holden will still be able to offer a coupe to Australians. The spiritual home for the coupe is still very much Australia and Australians will still be involved in the engineering of the car."
The news of the Monaro's US assembly plans comes as Pontiac announced it would cut the number of GTOs it orders from Australia. The GTO was meant to be a big boost for the struggling Pontiac brand but sales have not met expectations.
Despite the 2005 GTO's major power upgrade (in the form of a 6.0-litre V8 engine from the new Corvette) and a more aggressive appearance (thanks to new bonnet scoops), Pontiac sales forecasts are still pessimistic.
Respected US industry journal Automotive News reported this week that Pontiac will cut GTO production by about 30 percent next year.
Automotive News says that Larry Pryg, marketing manager for Pontiac's premium mid-sized cars, acknowledges Pontiac did not conduct enough initial market research on the GTO and misallocated inventory.
The magazine quotes Pryg as saying that the next generation GTO (which will share most if its components and body panels with the next generation Monaro) will "start from scratch with something for US tastes. We are going to stretch, but there will only be a few retro cues."
Should Holden fight to keep Monaro assembly in Australia?
Email drive@smh.com.au
Two scoops, please
Holden is being selective about whom it sells the new, vented Monaro bonnets to after a rush from people fitting them to older Commodores. The VZ Monaro bonnet (pictured) costs $984.50. "That bonnet is specific to the VZ Monaro and is designed to protect the identity of that car. We don't want to see that diluted by having those bonnets on other cars." says Holden.
12-03-2004, 12:03 AM
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Yes, the Australians are going to be beyond pissed.
If you thought the whining here about the GTO's styling was bad, you should taste what Aussie message boards think of the Monaro's new hood. It's just a preview if GM really goes through with this idea, and it's been discussed already in Oz.
There is a sound business case for it however. GM has excess capacity at numerous plants here, and the factory they have there is near capacity and running three full shifts. The Monaro is a low volume car, and would have been discontinued had it not become the new GTO. So both cars are getting a second chance at life in 2007. Since they sell more cars here than in Australia, they will both be built here and the Monaro shipped back home.
Naturally, quite a few current GTO owners are very worried about what will happen to the build and material quality on the car if it is built here.
Personally I'm not worried about the build, I'm worried about the lowest bidders GM may get to supply the interior. Very worried.
If you thought the whining here about the GTO's styling was bad, you should taste what Aussie message boards think of the Monaro's new hood. It's just a preview if GM really goes through with this idea, and it's been discussed already in Oz.
There is a sound business case for it however. GM has excess capacity at numerous plants here, and the factory they have there is near capacity and running three full shifts. The Monaro is a low volume car, and would have been discontinued had it not become the new GTO. So both cars are getting a second chance at life in 2007. Since they sell more cars here than in Australia, they will both be built here and the Monaro shipped back home.
Naturally, quite a few current GTO owners are very worried about what will happen to the build and material quality on the car if it is built here.
Personally I'm not worried about the build, I'm worried about the lowest bidders GM may get to supply the interior. Very worried.
12-03-2004, 01:19 AM
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wish that meant GM was bringing the commodore to the US too... they need a good RWD sedan in the Pontiac/Chevy range (all they really have are the new CTS and STS)
12-03-2004, 03:01 AM
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the GTO outsells the Monaro by almost five to one
12-03-2004, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ActionJack
Great news!
I may actually consider a GTO for a 2007 ride over the Mustang. Being made in America goes a long way with me and throw in a LS2 and I am sold.
I may actually consider a GTO for a 2007 ride over the Mustang. Being made in America goes a long way with me and throw in a LS2 and I am sold.
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12-03-2004, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ActionJack
I may actually consider a GTO for a 2007 ride over the Mustang. Being made in America goes a long way with me and throw in a LS2 and I am sold.
12-03-2004, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rookiels1
wish that meant GM was bringing the commodore to the US too... they need a good RWD sedan in the Pontiac/Chevy range
12-03-2004, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TriShield
I'm out if it looks like retro-*** and is built like an F-body.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 12-03-2004 at 07:33 PM.
12-03-2004, 10:23 PM
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Personally I don't think the quality will go up/down depending on "where" it's built so much as who decides "how" it's built. The Monaro was only possible because it thrived outside the influence of Roger Smith-ism in GM. Much like it's own evolutionary little Gallapogos Island, Holden had been able to thrive outside the realm of corporate consolidation. Now that GM has taken a renewed interest in Holden I think good and bad will come of it. We've just got to accept the bad in anticipation of the good.
FWIW I've seen this happen at my own company too, you hate to see it happen, but it's just the way corporations operate.... they have a mind of their own sometimes...
FWIW I've seen this happen at my own company too, you hate to see it happen, but it's just the way corporations operate.... they have a mind of their own sometimes...
12-04-2004, 05:26 AM
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Being built in the U.S. is not necessarily a bad thing and being built by UAW workers is not necessarily a bad thing. I happen to know this because I am a UAW worker. My company , Peterbilt , won 3 out of 4 JD Power and Associates Awards for Class 8 vocational trucks. Our sister company ,Kenworth, won the other award and we placed second in that category. It has a lot to with the corporation and and its standards. I take a lot of pride in my work and the product I help create and I try very hard to build each truck I work on as if it were MY truck.Jobs in America are leaving by the boatloads and the era when "Made in America" meant the best product in the world has passed.That is the real shame.I want the customer to feel like they made the best possible choice in purchasing our product and consider us only when replacing the old vehicle with a new one.Perhaps I'm in the minority here but not all UAW workers are lazy and incompetent warm bodies showing up to work just to collect a paycheck.It's time we Americans shape up and smell the coffee. There's a worker in China that would love to build a product for a lot smaller paycheck and if we don't do our best, that's where everything is going to end up being manufactured. I truly hope that GM and its' workers will take full advantage of this opportunity to show the world how good we can truly be at our best.
12-04-2004, 03:32 PM
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The magazine quotes Pryg as saying that the next generation GTO (which will share most if its components and body panels with the next generation Monaro) will "start from scratch with something for US tastes. We are going to stretch, but there will only be a few retro cues."
****. Going retro only proves that your designers suck too much to build something good looking from scratch and that your customers are stuck in the past and unwilling to move on already. Clean slate designs with a hint of retro like the 300/Magnum/Charger I can dig, but an overly retro design like the Mustang while handsome may get old in a few years. I'd like to know what exactly a "few" retro cues means. I certainly hope that the Aussies will get first crack at design or at least have a heavy influence cause God knows that GM's North American design team has a knack for turning good looking cars into **** like the Vectra-Malibu transformation, or in the case of the GTO, not as good looking as the Monaro. Will Simcoe still have a say over this project since he moved to NA design, or is Zeta not part of his next lineup of products? For the sake of the Aussies, I hope the US doesn't f00k this one up. The Aussies gave us a great car and if we're taking over production duty we damn well better return the favor. None of this half-assed shitty interior/shitty build quality crap.
****. Going retro only proves that your designers suck too much to build something good looking from scratch and that your customers are stuck in the past and unwilling to move on already. Clean slate designs with a hint of retro like the 300/Magnum/Charger I can dig, but an overly retro design like the Mustang while handsome may get old in a few years. I'd like to know what exactly a "few" retro cues means. I certainly hope that the Aussies will get first crack at design or at least have a heavy influence cause God knows that GM's North American design team has a knack for turning good looking cars into **** like the Vectra-Malibu transformation, or in the case of the GTO, not as good looking as the Monaro. Will Simcoe still have a say over this project since he moved to NA design, or is Zeta not part of his next lineup of products? For the sake of the Aussies, I hope the US doesn't f00k this one up. The Aussies gave us a great car and if we're taking over production duty we damn well better return the favor. None of this half-assed shitty interior/shitty build quality crap.
12-05-2004, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dom
Will this '07 GTO be totally redesigned inside out? Or will they try to make it look like the current one?
It will be an all-new car based on the Holden VE Commodore. In fact, pretty much every midsize-fullsize V8, RWD car GM has planned is going to be based on the VE Commodore.
My guess is the next GTO may resemeble a cross between the Woodward Ram Air 6 concept and the Holden Torana concept.
+
= 2007 GTO?
12-05-2004, 02:43 PM
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More from Down Under: Holden to play a larger role in GM's future product plans
JASON STEIN | Automotive News
Posted Date: 12/2/04
DETROIT -- Holden Ltd., the force behind the reintroduction of the Pontiac GTO, will play a large role in General Motors' product plans.
GM has assigned its Australian subsidiary the design and engineering for a new generation of rear-wheel-drive cars on the Zeta architecture. Some, including a Buick sedan and a redesigned GTO, will be assembled in the United States. The Buick will be first in 2006.
"Holden will take the lead for a lot of work, including most of the core engineering work," says Marty Hogan, program engineering manager for the current GTO. "The U.S. will still be responsible for regional needs and for meeting U.S. requirements, but Holden is serving a large need. "Because Holden has worked on the architecture before Zeta," Hogan says, it "will continue to integrate it."
Holden's lean, profitable operation has become a role model for GM's global engineering, computer and design network.
In America, Holden helped rework the right-hand-drive Monaro into the 2004 GTO. Hogan says 35 Holden engineers worked on the GTO, including 15 who oversaw the program from the GM Technical Center in Warren, Mich.
But "ultimately, it's Holden's own architecture," Hogan says. "We're picking up work they've done and trying to apply their applications to the core engineering."
This year, GM CEO Rick Wagoner reaffirmed Holden's importance.
"Holden continues to play a critical role, both as a key local player and as a source of engineering and design expertise, with special focus on its large, rear-drive car capabilities," Wagoner told journalists in September at GM's global seminar in France.
Holden's expertise is crucial to American development.
Says Hogan: "There are not too many questions asked on this side that they don't have an answer for over there."
JASON STEIN | Automotive News
Posted Date: 12/2/04
DETROIT -- Holden Ltd., the force behind the reintroduction of the Pontiac GTO, will play a large role in General Motors' product plans.
GM has assigned its Australian subsidiary the design and engineering for a new generation of rear-wheel-drive cars on the Zeta architecture. Some, including a Buick sedan and a redesigned GTO, will be assembled in the United States. The Buick will be first in 2006.
"Holden will take the lead for a lot of work, including most of the core engineering work," says Marty Hogan, program engineering manager for the current GTO. "The U.S. will still be responsible for regional needs and for meeting U.S. requirements, but Holden is serving a large need. "Because Holden has worked on the architecture before Zeta," Hogan says, it "will continue to integrate it."
Holden's lean, profitable operation has become a role model for GM's global engineering, computer and design network.
In America, Holden helped rework the right-hand-drive Monaro into the 2004 GTO. Hogan says 35 Holden engineers worked on the GTO, including 15 who oversaw the program from the GM Technical Center in Warren, Mich.
But "ultimately, it's Holden's own architecture," Hogan says. "We're picking up work they've done and trying to apply their applications to the core engineering."
This year, GM CEO Rick Wagoner reaffirmed Holden's importance.
"Holden continues to play a critical role, both as a key local player and as a source of engineering and design expertise, with special focus on its large, rear-drive car capabilities," Wagoner told journalists in September at GM's global seminar in France.
Holden's expertise is crucial to American development.
Says Hogan: "There are not too many questions asked on this side that they don't have an answer for over there."
12-06-2004, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TriShield
My guess is the next GTO may resemeble a cross between the Woodward Ram Air 6 concept and the Holden Torana concept.
= 2007 GTO?
= 2007 GTO?