My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

I believe you were the one clowned over there.
So what you hang out with the mods.
I know some on here to...BFD. Does that make you king of the world or something? Most likely not.
Like I said take it to a Toyota board.

45psi

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

I am done with you dude.
You win...

12stones

iTrader: (2)

Sounds familar, here is a homework assignment for you to read. Remember this is an oportunity to listen; not speak. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...sOfToyota.aspx

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

Fine, you don't think I don't know that. That wasn't the point of this topic or my post aimed at 45 PSI
However I would suggest you find out how many plants GM has in the states as opposed to the number Toyota has
Toyota has a total fo 14 in North America
GM has 29 plants in America Alone
Toyota Employs 36,000 folks in those plants
GM employs 78,000 in their plants.
The media is a tool of America bashing and very good at spinning stuff.
Where in this thread did I even say anything about Toyota making a bad product or they didn't make anything in America. I didn't.
What I said was I was tired of listening to Toyota *****.
THAT IS WHY I AM ON GM BOARD!
Damn thick headed people.
Go to a a Toyota board if you like them and want to discuss how great their products are and how great the company is.
I am done with you as well
You win too.

45psi

12stones

iTrader: (2)

Wasn't the topic of this post? The first post was posted a fact about automobiles delivered inside USA, GM and Toyota being compaired (of which is correct). It was then declaired that this is such great news and that the business aspect of GM was going strong in compairson to past US market control. Most automakers make decent cars, but it isn't about the product as it is about the way the business is oporated. Look at McDonald's as a terrific analogy; sub-par food, and yet a amazing franchise.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

GM was also the 2nd quarter world wide sales leader, but still trails Toyota for the year slightly. They were also up in sales in September while Toyota was down. It will be interesting to see what the final 3rd quarter numbers show.

12stones

iTrader: (2)

I'm suprised more effort hasn't been put into alternative fuels by automakers. The ideas have been forged, just a affordable automobile line and having the fuel available. Seems like someone would put one foot forward to make some $$$

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Isn't this statement loaded??? Imports have been riding off the research of companies like GM and Ford for a long time. GM and Ford have invested untold millions into product development only to have imports copy the sucesses for minimal investment. GM leads the industry when it comes to cutting edge tech. GM uses higly interchangable componets in its products. Go look at a Hollander manual.

Also, GM has changed its Corporate goals. They no longer aim at being the biggest. They want to be the most reliable while supporting product quality and safety. You guys will see large changes in the next couple of years as far as product quality, engine reliablity, improved seals, better crash reliance. GM goes to huge lengths to improve safety. They investigate many crashes on the road as well as in the proving grounds.

Just look at what GM is up against fiancially, the % of domestic content, the higher prices of domestic design, the massive amount of engineering, the global network they support. GM does aerodynamic simulations that take servers an entire week to render.

Is Toyota moving into Latin America to help promote infrastructure in Brazil?

Imports might of had better quality for awhile. That gap is rapidy closing. Hopefully people won't clinch onto a perception which is no longer true.

45psi

Yep your right. They incorporated the use of pushrods and leaf springs into their lineuo . Yea GM is on the leading edge of technology, so much that they use Isuzu in their Duramax. Gm relies on Toyota and visa versa. Toyota is more involved than you think. Need I say Pontiac Vibe and other cars.

WECIV

Not good news when you look at how many cars Toyota was putting out just a decade ago.

W

ChaseSS

iTrader: (17)

So your implying that the duramax is crappy? and pushrod engines are not effective still today?? and neither are leaf spring suspensions? And I am pretty sure that its common knowledge that GM has NOT relied on toyota for engineering anywhere near as much as the Japanese have relied on the big 3

45psi

IF that were the case, GM wouldnt be in the situation they are in now. GM abandoned the sport compact and economy vehicles, for the last 15 or so years. Its catching up with them now, considering the accomplishments Honda and Toyota have made over the last 20 or so years. GM is implementing forms of Variable Valve Timing in their cars. Their following the Germans in direct injection and they still use pushrods technology. Pretty soon, the vette will be powered by DOHC, jsut like the V6 Caddy. So no, they are not the leading forefront on technology.

I am not implying that the Duramax is crappy. Im simply stating that they used outside help, with a Japanese company to help propel the Duramax to what it is today. Tell me what have the Japanese relied on from the US?

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Without the US it will just be a smoldering pile of rubble as they had to get outside help to rebuild. Japan DEPENDS on exporting products to the US and they depend on importing resources from the US. Japan has nothing. They are totally resourceless. Without a good product and image they would wither away.

Just because GM doesn't throw every little piece of tech into their cars doesn't mean they are crap. Who cares if they used a twist beam axle on small cars or leaf springs on some trucks. IRS is useless for the average driver and you won't find any coil springs for extreme weight applications.

The compact market is a giant turd when it comes to performance. The are driving cheap cars for a reason. Those people don't to spend money on anything but airfilters and rims. I have tried to sell them brand new stock engines for 1000 dollars and they would rather get a takeout from a junkyard for 200.

The Pontiac Vibe/Matrix was a partnership. Need I say more? If it was so one sided by would the other party be interested?

Pushrods mean a well priced engine that doesn't take up alot of space and building in terms of larger displacements. As the North American market allows this... Larger engines with are a hell of alot more driveable than import wind up toys. Less parts and cheaper to rebuild. Smaller timing chains and less chance of breaking. I guess I don't have to mention GM doesn't use cheap crappy timing belts as much.

You always have the factor that imports are going to cost more to fix and dependent on shipping parts in from overseas. But don't tell me that Toyota is all american because I know for fact that their timing componets are made in Korea, Taiwan, and other oriental countries.

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

From the Pittsburgh Post Gazette........


By Roger Simmermaker (Commentary)
Dec. 19, 2006

Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans – especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies – you'd never know it.

Last year, the Chevrolet Impala beat the Camry in initial quality, according to J.D. Power & Associates. And Consumer Reports just announced that both the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan scored higher than both the Camry and the Honda Accord this year.

Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you'd almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies.

There's also the mythical perception that foreign automakers produce the most fuel efficient cars and that Detroit only makes gas-guzzlers when the truth is that all automakers – including Toyota, Honda and Hyundai-Kia alike – have allowed fuel economy to slide in the past 20 years since they all now sell bigger trucks and more SUVs.

Perhaps the biggest perception problem is that American automobile companies GM and Ford – Chrysler is now German-owned – squander all their money on plants overseas and foreign automakers build their factories in the United States. Foreign car lovers will surely point to Kia's plans to build its first-ever U.S. plant in Georgia, but they probably won't mention that they received $400 million in tax giveaways to do it, which translates into $160, 000 per job.

Among the many benefits for the foreign-owned company, your tax dollars are going to be used for road improvements surrounding the complex, complete with flower beds and other beautification features. Hey, as long as we're going to allow states to bid for private jobs with our public tax dollars, we might as well make it look good, right?

And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don't know or don't want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent more than $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas.

And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn't tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3 percent, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78 percent and 74 percent, respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.

Fortunately for our benefit, the United States remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers. According to the Level Field Institute, U.S. car companies invest $16 billion in research and development annually, outpacing any other industry one could name.

Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM's combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who's counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.

Japanese companies do employ 3, 600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers – 3, 600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65, 000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are – you guessed it – Ford and GM. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft.

Ford has recently made headlines as the American automaker with the most challenges to its future, but these challenges certainly are not because they "aren't making cars people want to buy." Toyota did outsell Ford in July, but since then, Ford has reclaimed the No. 2 spot.

GM has the highest market share, increasing over 2 percentage points from a year ago, so it apparently can't be accused of not making cars people want to buy either. Ford sales also are up in Europe, and Ford doubled its sales in China, where GM has the highest market share of any automaker.

GM also reported a 3.9 percent rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, it couldn't match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM's sales rose 17 percent in October from the year-ago month and Ford sales rose 8 percent the same period.

And for all the talk about the lack of fuel efficiency of American automakers, it seems three-fourths of all automakers failed to meet Europe's improved fuel-efficiency standards intended to cut carbon-dioxide emissions. Japanese and German automakers topped the list of the study's worst performers, but according to an environmental group's study, GM's Opel division and Ford both "come out well."

In closing, I'll leave some encouraging numbers for those of us who actually like to root for and support the home team. The J.D. Power 2006 Vehicle Dependability Survey reports that Mercury, Buick and Cadillac (in that order) grabbed the No. 2, 3 and 4 spots to beat Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW and everyone else (except Lexus) in having the least number of problems per 100 vehicles.

JD_AMG

Technology for the sake of technology is dumb at best. Name me another production engine with around 500hp (more importantly with a flat torque curve) that weighs under 400lbs.
The only reason GM would switch back to DOHC for the vette is to make some really big power while still passing emissions and keeping the car very streetable.

Rawr256

Somewhat off topic...

I was at the wrecking yard the other day and in their showroom they had a LS1 out on a stand in one area and the new Mustang engine on another. I looked at the LS1 and thought I could pick it up if I really wanted to. Looked at the Mustang DOHC engine and it looks freakin huge! Especially those valve covers, looked like there is a lot of stuff under there.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Thank you, sir! People just don't believe it. They are all tools; so easily swayed by what people want them to hear!

Ford makes great cars in the European market and they are super popular for their affordability and fuel economy. The Ford kA and the Focus. If you ask me the European breed is picky when it comes to cars. Price and fuel econ matters to them so much more. But, I guess American cars are crap.

In Michigan, there are cities of GM and Ford engineers constantly at work. I have seen it and it would blow you completely away if they only allowed the public to observe what happens in one day. Where are the Toyota engineers?? Probably back in the motherland plotting the next batch of misleading commericials.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

You do realize that the FIRST generation Firebird had an OHC engine. GM also had the GMO Quad 4 almost 20 years ago, the 3.4 DOHC, OHC engines in cavaliers in the 80's, on and on. They know what works well and at a low cost, and for the time being DOHC 4 valve engines isnt what works in larger vehicles where the GenIII/IV are used.