Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

I can't prove it of course. I don't claim to be able to prove it. All i'm offering is the very educated opinion of a guy who actually has some experience to back up what he says. I know you don't, so i'm reluctant to continue this discussion.

Basically, I KNOW that the stock GT-R COULD NOT have pulled a 7:29 on the ring. Modified, anything is possible. But not stock, on street (non r-comp) tires. You can claim whatever you want based on whatever data you find on the net...go ahead, do what EVERY OTHER bench-racer fanboy has done...it won't change my mind. Until I can speak personally to one of the drivers that has seat time in that car, or drive it myself, nothing I read is going to change my mind about it.


Couple of issues here...

FIRST, the CCR is capable of far faster runs, that's no secret. I have no doubt that the CCR is at least AS FAST as the ZR-1, more than likely quicker. Keep in mind that the CCR is a top-speed car and is geared as such, not like the ZR1 which is geared for acceleration. That being said, there are plenty of cars that have run the ring and posted a less than representative time. I feel the ZR1 fits this category too. Both cars are faster.

SECOND, the CCR is not a 7 minute flat ring car. I refer you to my post about the diminishing returns of increased HP and grip. Here again you are bench racing and playing with numbers to try to support an argument. This is where real track experience comes in handy. The CCR is definitely faster than it's time hints...however you have to really understand physics and the way it affects cars to interpolate with any kind of accuracy. Let's just say if the ZR1 can pull off a 7:20-7:22 time, as I believe it can. That being the case, the CCR (with reasonable gearing) should eek out a 7:18ish time. That would make it phenomenally faster than the ZR1. Hugely faster. I'm not going to sit here and explain what it really takes to gain a second in the low 7-minute range on a track like the ring...but trust me it's huge in comparison to, say, the 9-minute range.

meangreen94z

I'm questioning your "extensive knowledge" that you keep bringing up. You claim we're not worthy of your time explaining it in detail, but yet you then spend the time to respond to subsequent posts stating the same thing yet again. I'd really like to know your experience in roadracing, autocross, etc., Your knowledge of automotive related "physics". Also what vehicles you have experience driving?

There are many more factors than weight that affect tire grip. Suspension angle/alignment, dampening, center of gravity among other things all have an affect.

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

Ok honestly "Who Gives a **** Anymore!" It ran what it ran, the only way we are going to find anything out now is when someone runs the 'ring in their own bought from the dealer car. This thread isn't about the GTR, or if the times they put down are legit. This thread is about the 7:26.4 that the ZR1 put down, while at the hands of an engineer. Just drop this **** already, this is becoming more on who knows what rather than the facts at hand.
-Joel

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Ummm.... re-read how we got back to this kinda of comparison and you'll notice that YOU brought it up in post #18, as well as Daily driver in the 2nd post and Blackbird24 in post #14. If you guys are getting sick of the comparison than you guys need to stop stirring the pot. I first commented on this thread after reading the OP and was thrilled with the ZR1's times...
Then I read what I thought were gonna be great posts and comments on the accomplishment of the ZR1 but yourself and a few others started calling BS on the GTR's times again.
I'm all for constructive arguments but lets be do this in a positive manner.
I will point out that this thread is alot more civil than past ones and I agree it's stupid to continually compare whatever the ZR1 or the Z06 does with another vehicle but then yourself and other included will have to stop comparing it before you get upset at others who try to defend it when your claiming

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Since your main recourse is to make this personal rather than about facts I'm gonna put you on the spot here. FLAT OUT, STATE WHAT MY RACING EXPERIENCE IS! Your apparently pretty cocky to tell me point blank that I don't have any racing experience without knowing anything about me. Please do tell...and I don't want to hear "I don't know" or "well it's evident" BS.

Your avoiding the question, so again tell me WHY...a stock GTR COULD NOT have pulled a 7:29. You've stated it enough times yet have not explained once WHY it could not have done so in stock trim other than claiming that your extensive racing experience tells you so and that should be enough to convince me that your Michael Schumacher or the STIG.

I'm the one that's bench racing here?? The CCR ran a 7:34 man, not 7:26 or faster as you claim it can do. Your apparently telling me that they weren't really trying aren't you? Your words are proving to hold NO WEIGHT whatsoever. Fact is it's a slower car for many reasons, many of which meangreen94z pointed out and countless other reasons that he didn't. This isn't about what it or could or should be but what it IS. Sure if you modify it and add some of the ride control technology or aerodynamics that are in the ZR1 or the GTR it will do better but it doesn't have that technology and because it doesn't it's slower. The CCR has a bigger drag coefficient than either cars (.3 for the CCR compared to .27 for the GTR) and does not generate nearly the same amount of downforce that either the GTR of the ZR1 does which means it can't corner like either the GTR or ZR1.
Here's it trying to corner without a wing (Wing is an OPTION on this car, what does that tell you?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXjjpQwHDI4

In order to get the times you claim it's capable of you'd have to do significant modifications to the body for it to generate the required downforce which would alter what the car IS, and what it is...is not faster than the ZR1 or GTR, nor can it be in that model. End of that stupid discussion!

Your completely shooting this stuff out of your **** aren't you? I mean it's evident that you seriously have no idea what your talking about. This must be the so called professional racer in you that's pointing you to all these so called facts huh?

First gear for the ZR1 is 2.29:1 while that of the CCR is 2.875:1 and your telling me the CCR isn't geared for acceleration when compared to the ZR1?? You're joking right?
Hmmm, what else...The final drive ratio of the CCR is 3.545:1 while the ZR1 is 3.42:1, hmmm... looks like the ZR1 would be geared more for top end than the CCR now wouldn't it? Now as a reference...the Bugatti Veyron's final drive is 2.47:1 by the way, and that IS geared in part to be a top-speed car.

Your telling me The ZR1 is geared for acceleration rather than top speed when for the first time ever the Corvette's top speed is achieved in sixth gear – a change from the fifth-gear top-speed run-outs in the manual-transmission Corvette and Corvette Z06. This change means that this will be the first Corvette stricken by a gas-guzzler tax. A move GM engineers were sure to debate before making.


Thank you because I'm not sure I could handle any more of your nonsense. I know what your trying to say but your really out of your element here...Mr professional driver.

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

Frenchy seems like an idiot, ignoring the blatant illegitimacy surrounding the GTR's time.

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

Alright then if you notice the statement i made was basically saying how the *** isn't that far off the time the ZR1 pulled off. And the ZR1 is putting down a good amount of more power, and weighs alot less than it. The crap im getting sick of is people bickering back and forth about physics and videos and all this **** when we don't even know all the facts on the ***.
-Joel

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

What to defend, people are defending the GTR and have no idea the condition the car was in when it ran. Yes we can all easily say that the ZR1 time is bogus if you compare it to that of the CCR or the Bugatti. But then think at whats the top speed on both of those cars compared to the ZR1? Those two im sure can handle a bit, but i think they were engineered more at at trying to break the sound barrier. We have gotten more info out of GM on some of the stuff the ZR1 was running, than Nissan has given us in all this time since their last run. Its obvious to see that both cars were made to be all around performers. Both can handle and put down insane numbers in a straight line.
-Joel

dailydriver

As did I.

I was merely complimenting GM/Corvette Engineering on telling us EXACTLY what they did, unlike others who did NOT!!

After that, I was commenting on our fave/top BANNED import fanboiee/trollboy.
Now, you do not really support/back him up, do you??

See, you have a VERY FAST domestic nameplated truck, as well as ONLY domestics otherwise, so I tend to not even reply/comment to/on your posts, as import nameplate defensive as they may be (for whatever reason; devil's advocate/'fairness'/whatever).
But when you bring me into it, I MUST respond.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

I agree 100% with what your saying. I have as much of an idea about the condition of the car that ran the Ring as everybody else who's claiming BS on the times do.
All these cars are impressive in their own right, no matter how their times are scrutinized. I'm all for getting this thread back to OP because we can all agree that these times are increadible and long overdue and we all want to see how much faster around the ring this car will be able to do.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Absolutely! and I understand
I'm just as upset as the next person that some of these threads go in this direction and I'm just as much of an instigator since it takes two to tango so to speak.

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

I can't wait for the vid. of the ZR1 lapping the ring. Wasn't their a statement from someone who was at the ring saying that something V8 and supercharged was being chased by a helicopter? Maybe the vid will be an incar and above the track type of thing.
-Joel

OKcruising

I can't wait for the ZR1 to get in the hands of enthusiasts... I'm smelling r compounds getting heated up

Hahaha, who does stock anyways? The GtR L3three7's will get crushed every which way, even when they are modified. I'm waiting to punk some GTR's who think my car is probably missing a cylinder and slammed for aesthetics.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

wow, theyd be a badass video

Suaveat69

I thought no more on the Gtr It hard to not respond. I have more I may post.

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

More on what though? Im not one to say whether you can post info or not, i just don't want to see this thread get locked like the countless others.
-Joel

DanO

here is how i see it

all cars mentioned are awesome.. all have had a shot at the ring. Some may have done it bone stock, others may be slightly modified. It doesnt matter. In the end, all are blazingly fast cars and 99.99% of the people in the world could not come close to duplicating those times. (including all those that are currently arguing)

With cars of this caliber, its a drivers race 100%. Once you experience cars that have this much power and handling, you will quickly realize that magazine racing was pointless..

While i have my bias, i can definately give credit to any fast vehicle. Most seem like they are trying to say there is ONLY ONE WAY to get around the Ring..

for a quick example.. how many viper drivers can pull off better than a 13 second 1/4.. (and this is not nearly as technical as the ring)

beerwhiskeyjoe

Don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but the debates already started-

So, honest question, how much is the z06's gearing hurting it on the track? I'm reading the Aug c/d, and they take the gtr and the z06 out to buttonwillow. I understand some better tires would deff help out alot, but it seems like more is on the table.

From the numbers c/d gave, the zo6 did 0-60 in 3.8, 0-100 in 8.3, 0-150 in 17.9. The gtr did 0-60 in 4.1, 0-100 in 10.2, 0-150 in 26.6.

The z06 has 3.42 gears, first gear is 2.66, second 1.78, third 1.30, and fourth is 1.00. The gtr has 3.70 gears, first is 4.06, second 2.30, third 1.60, and fourth is 1.25.

Thing that gets me is c/d said the max speed for the z06 on buttonwillow was 122.5, the gtr, 122.0. My question is how many major tracks actually see max speeds over say 150mph? I wouldnt think that many, cause it seems like the gtr's gearing is based on that. What good does z06's gearing do on your average track, or the street, when you don't need that much acceleration north of 130-150mph?

Another question would be why wont chevy offer an option for lower gears from the factory on the z06?

OKcruising

^^ I believe they offered a motorsport t56 a few years back with heavily revised ratios to make the gearing actually very short.

DiscerningZ32

The ZR1's time is very respectable and the car is probably capable of running even quicker.
There's no more point in discussing the GTR's laptime. I seriously doubt Nissan would bother making false claims. The GTR has beaten the 911 turbo and Z06 on every track it has ran on. That was Nissan's goal, the actual time is irrelevant.
Now that the ZR1 has beaten the GTR, Nissan will more than likely try to strike back with a spec II NUR. I don't think they can beat the ZR1, but it should be interesting...

To every crybaby: Quit being so childish. I'm sure there are far more important things you could be bickering about...