GM Strikes Back - Corvette ZR1 Laps the 'Ring in 7:26.4
07-09-2008, 09:14 PM
#161
Dude, read what it says to the right of the column for the ZR1.
""Strong headwind on main straight. electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches.""
It also says "Manufactures claim"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
""Strong headwind on main straight. electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches.""
It also says "Manufactures claim"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
BTW, were is Nissan dissertation of there procedures at the ring? They friggin have none!!
Shoemacker, who runs the ring, stated the Z06 did a standing start as well as Webster.
07-09-2008, 09:14 PM
#162
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By: Tadge J. Juechter
Corvette Chief Engineer
I know many people have been very interested in how fast the ZR1 would be at the Ring
Most car enthusiasts are quite familiar with the Nürburgring. Built in the 1920s near Cologne, Germany, the Ring is considered to be the toughest and most challenging race track in the world.
Over the last two weeks, we have been doing our final tuning and testing there before we start ZR1 production cars. This morning (Friday June 27), General Motors development engineer Jim Mero drove the Corvette ZR1 around the Nürburgring in a time of 7:26.4.
Jim commented after the lap that conditions were good except for a strong headwind down the main straight and that the lap was solid, but he felt there were a few places he could have gone faster.
The car was bone stock with the exception of the communications and safety equipment. The tires were production Michelin Pilot Sport 2s. These tires have been developed specifically for the ZR1 and will have impressive wet traction and wear (tread wear rating = 220), in addition to excellent dry road holding. Chassis alignment and vehicle height were set to factory specs. Likewise, the engine calibrations were absolutely stock, emissions compliant and the car ran on pump (not racing) fuel. The vehicle was exactly like the cars that will be built in Bowling Green, Kentucky and sold around the world later this summer.
Despite posting one of the fastest times ever run by a production car, Nürburgring lap times were not an over-riding priority in the development of the ZR1. The truth is, if the only priority was speed at the ring, the car would not be very pleasant to drive on American roads. The ZR1 is an incredibly capable track machine, but unlike most ultra-high performance cars, it is very easy to live with on a daily basis.
The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice. The lap was electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches. An in-car video will be posted when the engineering team returns from Germany. Look for it the week of July 7!
http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=194
Re-read the quote from the Corvette's chief engineer. The current rolling starts are a DEPARTURE from previous standard practice
Do you want to see the Cobalt SS video of a standing start? Go learn something.
Go look at the CT-V video, you can see the car backing up to do the run instead of a flying lap.
If it was a flying start why did Jan only get in 4 timed laps in ONE hour that the track was rented? Becsue they did not do a FLYING START.
YOu need to get over the fact that this has all been DOCUMENTED on here not only by myself but others as well.
Listen about how precisely they did this with the Z06. The screaming clue was in the fact that it took Jan an hour to do only four laps. John Heinricy effectively spells that out in this video on the CTS-V's lap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgfKYeFKK9Y Listen carefully to what he says from 2:26 - 2:57. Pay particular attention to the last 10 seconds of what he says about how much time it would take to do one lap if you were going around the track to come to the start/finish line.
This will put to rest once and for all that the Z did a standing sart and used the WHOLE track just like the V did. You can even see the V backing up to go to the start line.
Also I just watched the GTR video and the start and end points are different.
The clock stops just after he makes that final turn.
The clock starts after he runs down that straight away which is after the final turn
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2...cture19pa0.png
In the two images you can see the buildings on the left when the clock
starts yet you see the buildings on the left in the distance when the clock starts. That's probably 5 seconds right there.
If they pulled that bullsh!t it makes me wonder what else they did.
GM does a standing atart as standard practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOtAouKf_A0
GM standing start Cobalt SS with Heinricy driving.
GTR does indeed do a FLYING start from the VIDEO:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uGe_fyhQazg
On the GT-R video, look at where the clock stops for the 7:38 time. Now go back to the start of the video from approximately 1 or 1:01 to 1:06 or 1:07 would be the time to add that skipped portion of track back.
How much time did the GTR save by not running the pit stretch? No need to wonder, look at the VIDEO. Check the gap from 1:01 - 1:07. To compare it to Jan's I can at least reason that the Z06 should at least be able to make that section of the run just as quickly.
The GT-R was timed with a rolling start that ended about 100 feet from where it began. Time starts right before they dip in the first left hander and end right after laps last right hand turn, leaving the whole Tier13 out of the measurement! That is 6-7 sec. difference compared to measure start and stop from the same spot.
Note the time taken to cover the distance from the video time 1:01 to 1:07. Use the blue wall on the right for reference as it appears during that time. That is the vehicle's run up to the start which occurs at 1:07 at the end of that short stretch of road. If you watch the video you will note something interesting. After the car exits the pits 1:01 it blasts down to the timing traps. This takes it approximately five seconds to camera freeze at 1:06. For reference, note the blue portion of the wall to the right of the car from 1:01-1:06. If you watch closely, the car really trips the trap at 1:07 because at 1:06 it hasn't actually reached the lights.
Now fast forward to the end of the video and watch for the video freeze where they put up the 7:38 time on screen, it's at 8:49 on the video. You would think that would be back at the end of that short stretch which is where they started. But if you look to the right you will see that the blue wall has, again, only just started. The video does not end at the 1:07 start point but at the 1:01 run up to the start point. Yes the GTR cheated, they start in one place and then finish in another!!!
At the end of the run they stop the clock not back at the timing traps which are at the end of that stretch marked by the blue portion of the wall on the right at 1:01 - 1:06 but the instant the car hits the beginning of that short stretch 8:48. Did the video stop with the freeze frame 7:38:54 before they got into the timing light?
They start time just before left hander at Tier13, and end time, just after last right hander back into Tier13, taking out 400-500 feet. They had speed going into the start timer!!
Jan`s drive @ 7.42 is even more impressive! What if the Z had Sport Cups? According to Walter Rohrl Porsche saw an eight second improvement from 7:50 to 7:42 from standard tires to the sport tires with a 997 Turbo at the Ring. If the same improvement was noted on a Z that would imply a 7:35 lap!
Corvette Chief Engineer
I know many people have been very interested in how fast the ZR1 would be at the Ring
Most car enthusiasts are quite familiar with the Nürburgring. Built in the 1920s near Cologne, Germany, the Ring is considered to be the toughest and most challenging race track in the world.
Over the last two weeks, we have been doing our final tuning and testing there before we start ZR1 production cars. This morning (Friday June 27), General Motors development engineer Jim Mero drove the Corvette ZR1 around the Nürburgring in a time of 7:26.4.
Jim commented after the lap that conditions were good except for a strong headwind down the main straight and that the lap was solid, but he felt there were a few places he could have gone faster.
The car was bone stock with the exception of the communications and safety equipment. The tires were production Michelin Pilot Sport 2s. These tires have been developed specifically for the ZR1 and will have impressive wet traction and wear (tread wear rating = 220), in addition to excellent dry road holding. Chassis alignment and vehicle height were set to factory specs. Likewise, the engine calibrations were absolutely stock, emissions compliant and the car ran on pump (not racing) fuel. The vehicle was exactly like the cars that will be built in Bowling Green, Kentucky and sold around the world later this summer.
Despite posting one of the fastest times ever run by a production car, Nürburgring lap times were not an over-riding priority in the development of the ZR1. The truth is, if the only priority was speed at the ring, the car would not be very pleasant to drive on American roads. The ZR1 is an incredibly capable track machine, but unlike most ultra-high performance cars, it is very easy to live with on a daily basis.
The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice. The lap was electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches. An in-car video will be posted when the engineering team returns from Germany. Look for it the week of July 7!
http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=194
Re-read the quote from the Corvette's chief engineer. The current rolling starts are a DEPARTURE from previous standard practice
Do you want to see the Cobalt SS video of a standing start? Go learn something.
Go look at the CT-V video, you can see the car backing up to do the run instead of a flying lap.
If it was a flying start why did Jan only get in 4 timed laps in ONE hour that the track was rented? Becsue they did not do a FLYING START.
YOu need to get over the fact that this has all been DOCUMENTED on here not only by myself but others as well.
Listen about how precisely they did this with the Z06. The screaming clue was in the fact that it took Jan an hour to do only four laps. John Heinricy effectively spells that out in this video on the CTS-V's lap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgfKYeFKK9Y Listen carefully to what he says from 2:26 - 2:57. Pay particular attention to the last 10 seconds of what he says about how much time it would take to do one lap if you were going around the track to come to the start/finish line.
This will put to rest once and for all that the Z did a standing sart and used the WHOLE track just like the V did. You can even see the V backing up to go to the start line.
Also I just watched the GTR video and the start and end points are different.
The clock stops just after he makes that final turn.
The clock starts after he runs down that straight away which is after the final turn
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2...cture19pa0.png
In the two images you can see the buildings on the left when the clock
starts yet you see the buildings on the left in the distance when the clock starts. That's probably 5 seconds right there.
If they pulled that bullsh!t it makes me wonder what else they did.
GM does a standing atart as standard practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOtAouKf_A0
GM standing start Cobalt SS with Heinricy driving.
GTR does indeed do a FLYING start from the VIDEO:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uGe_fyhQazg
On the GT-R video, look at where the clock stops for the 7:38 time. Now go back to the start of the video from approximately 1 or 1:01 to 1:06 or 1:07 would be the time to add that skipped portion of track back.
How much time did the GTR save by not running the pit stretch? No need to wonder, look at the VIDEO. Check the gap from 1:01 - 1:07. To compare it to Jan's I can at least reason that the Z06 should at least be able to make that section of the run just as quickly.
The GT-R was timed with a rolling start that ended about 100 feet from where it began. Time starts right before they dip in the first left hander and end right after laps last right hand turn, leaving the whole Tier13 out of the measurement! That is 6-7 sec. difference compared to measure start and stop from the same spot.
Note the time taken to cover the distance from the video time 1:01 to 1:07. Use the blue wall on the right for reference as it appears during that time. That is the vehicle's run up to the start which occurs at 1:07 at the end of that short stretch of road. If you watch the video you will note something interesting. After the car exits the pits 1:01 it blasts down to the timing traps. This takes it approximately five seconds to camera freeze at 1:06. For reference, note the blue portion of the wall to the right of the car from 1:01-1:06. If you watch closely, the car really trips the trap at 1:07 because at 1:06 it hasn't actually reached the lights.
Now fast forward to the end of the video and watch for the video freeze where they put up the 7:38 time on screen, it's at 8:49 on the video. You would think that would be back at the end of that short stretch which is where they started. But if you look to the right you will see that the blue wall has, again, only just started. The video does not end at the 1:07 start point but at the 1:01 run up to the start point. Yes the GTR cheated, they start in one place and then finish in another!!!
At the end of the run they stop the clock not back at the timing traps which are at the end of that stretch marked by the blue portion of the wall on the right at 1:01 - 1:06 but the instant the car hits the beginning of that short stretch 8:48. Did the video stop with the freeze frame 7:38:54 before they got into the timing light?
They start time just before left hander at Tier13, and end time, just after last right hander back into Tier13, taking out 400-500 feet. They had speed going into the start timer!!
Jan`s drive @ 7.42 is even more impressive! What if the Z had Sport Cups? According to Walter Rohrl Porsche saw an eight second improvement from 7:50 to 7:42 from standard tires to the sport tires with a 997 Turbo at the Ring. If the same improvement was noted on a Z that would imply a 7:35 lap!
Why are you bringing up the 7:38, when I clearly show the run between the Zonda and GTR? You keep rambling off at the mouth with no substantial evidence.
Did you even watch the Video?
07-09-2008, 09:19 PM
#163
I provided evidence nitz. What the hell have you provided> I was there at OLOA and can state that the GTR is fact stock? Well then back that the **** up.
Answer the ******* question, if the GTR can run 7:29 why can't it run a sub 2:00 time at VIR. I posted what other race car drivers are running at VIR with C6z's.
I posted the INFORMATION that the driver of car #20 posted by him and yet you still know more.
07-09-2008, 09:19 PM
#164
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The reason why there are two different spots is because you need to to stop. I clearly pointed this out to you already 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
Read the track Length and Timing:
"""Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. A full lap of the Nordschleife, bypassing the modern GP track, is 20.832 km (12.944 mi) long. Most laps are completed 200 metres (656 ft) shorter for safety reasons. Full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup."""
Now please, stop bringing this up!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
Read the track Length and Timing:
"""Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. A full lap of the Nordschleife, bypassing the modern GP track, is 20.832 km (12.944 mi) long. Most laps are completed 200 metres (656 ft) shorter for safety reasons. Full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup."""
Now please, stop bringing this up!
07-09-2008, 09:22 PM
#165
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You are calling me a dummy **** face? For your inofrmation *** wipe the GT2 shved off 8 seconds when it switched over to PS2.
I provided evidence nitz. What the hell have you provided> I was there at OLOA and can state that the GTR is fact stock? Well then back that the **** up.
Answer the ******* question, if the GTR can run 7:29 why can't it run a sub 2:00 time at VIR. I post what otehr race car drivers a running at VIR with C6z's.
I posted the INFORMATION that the driver of car #20 posted by him and yet you still know more.
I provided evidence nitz. What the hell have you provided> I was there at OLOA and can state that the GTR is fact stock? Well then back that the **** up.
Answer the ******* question, if the GTR can run 7:29 why can't it run a sub 2:00 time at VIR. I post what otehr race car drivers a running at VIR with C6z's.
I posted the INFORMATION that the driver of car #20 posted by him and yet you still know more.
07-09-2008, 09:24 PM
#166
The reason why there are two different spots is because you need to to stop. I clearly pointed this out to you already
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
Read the track Length and Timing:
"""Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. A full lap of the Nordschleife, bypassing the modern GP track, is 20.832 km (12.944 mi) long. Most laps are completed 200 metres (656 ft) shorter for safety reasons. Full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup."""
Now please, stop bringing this up!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times
Read the track Length and Timing:
"""Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. A full lap of the Nordschleife, bypassing the modern GP track, is 20.832 km (12.944 mi) long. Most laps are completed 200 metres (656 ft) shorter for safety reasons. Full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup."""
Now please, stop bringing this up!
Go learn something! Listen to the CTS video.
07-09-2008, 09:25 PM
#167
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You are calling me a dummy **** face? For your inofrmation *** wipe the GT2 shved off 8 seconds when it switched over to PS2.
I provided evidence nitz. What the hell have you provided> I was there at OLOA and can state that the GTR is fact stock? Well then back that the **** up.
Answer the ******* question, if the GTR can run 7:29 why can't it run a sub 2:00 time at VIR. I posted what other race car drivers are running at VIR with C6z's.
I posted the INFORMATION that the driver of car #20 posted by him and yet you still know more.
I provided evidence nitz. What the hell have you provided> I was there at OLOA and can state that the GTR is fact stock? Well then back that the **** up.
Answer the ******* question, if the GTR can run 7:29 why can't it run a sub 2:00 time at VIR. I posted what other race car drivers are running at VIR with C6z's.
I posted the INFORMATION that the driver of car #20 posted by him and yet you still know more.
http://blogs.vetteweb.com/6239869/co...inc/index.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2015672
07-09-2008, 09:28 PM
#168
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No, it is done for safety reason you idiot. You can not run full throttle and expect to stop in time. This is why each lap is stopped at the time the GTR and Zonda finished.
Did you watch the video? Those are the same times presented in the Nurburgring section.
07-09-2008, 09:40 PM
#169
The CTSV did it from a roll.
No, it is done for safety reason you idiot. You can not run full throttle and expect to stop in time. This is why each lap is stopped at the time the GTR and Zonda finished.
Did you watch the video? Those are the same times presented in the Nurburgring section.
No, it is done for safety reason you idiot. You can not run full throttle and expect to stop in time. This is why each lap is stopped at the time the GTR and Zonda finished.
Did you watch the video? Those are the same times presented in the Nurburgring section.
GM did do standing start on the Ss and Z06 right from Tadge's mouth. Better go tell that to Subaru as they have a video of them doing a standing start as well.
There BOGUS times. They were not run in the same manner as the Z06.
07-09-2008, 09:42 PM
#170
Past the article where he says he was stock. I posted information to you on the Corvetteforum, where it clearly states the modifications done to the Vettes.
http://blogs.vetteweb.com/6239869/co...inc/index.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2015672
http://blogs.vetteweb.com/6239869/co...inc/index.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2015672
Please TELL US SINCE YOUR WERE AT OLOA how do you that the GTR was stock? Answer is you don't and are talking out of your ****!
07-09-2008, 09:46 PM
#171
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I never said the CTS did from a standing start, huh ********? Why in the **** is the CTS backing up on the track?
GM did do standing start on the Ss and Z06 right from Tadge's mouth. Better go tell that to Subaru as they have a video of them doing a standing start as well.
There BOGUS times. They were not run in the same manner as the Z06.
GM did do standing start on the Ss and Z06 right from Tadge's mouth. Better go tell that to Subaru as they have a video of them doing a standing start as well.
There BOGUS times. They were not run in the same manner as the Z06.
Can you please show me the Z06's run?
07-09-2008, 09:56 PM
#172
Did you watch the damn video of the in car camera? Of course not!
Let me get this straight, GM has a video of the SS doing a standing start. Tadge states both in print and on video that GM practice use to be a standing start. Neverind the fact the the SS video came out after the Z06 video. Shoemacker, who runs the ring stated that the Z did a standing start. Now are you telling everybody on here that you have PROOF that Tadge,GM and Shoemacker were lying? Can't wait to read this one.
07-09-2008, 10:04 PM
#173
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Compared to the Z's test-Flying start, cut out about 600 ft of track. All you have to do is go and look at the in-car vidoe of the run to see this about the time from in the car.
Did you watch the damn video of the in car camera? Of course not!
Let me get this straight, GM has a video of the SS doing a standing start. Tadge states both in print and on video that GM practice use to be a standing start. Neverind the fact the the SS video came out after the Z06 video. Shoemacker, who runs the ring stated that the Z did a standing start. Now are you telling everybody on here that you have PROOF that Tadge,GM and Shoemacker were lying? Can't wait to read this one.
Did you watch the damn video of the in car camera? Of course not!
Let me get this straight, GM has a video of the SS doing a standing start. Tadge states both in print and on video that GM practice use to be a standing start. Neverind the fact the the SS video came out after the Z06 video. Shoemacker, who runs the ring stated that the Z did a standing start. Now are you telling everybody on here that you have PROOF that Tadge,GM and Shoemacker were lying? Can't wait to read this one.
We are not talking about the SS
Im asking you for the video proof of the Z06's run. Stop avoiding the damn question. Why hasnt GM posted this after 3 years? Its because they did not run the time they stated! 
07-09-2008, 10:25 PM
#176
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA3FUnlyGDc
07-09-2008, 10:50 PM
#177
Damn ******* straight if the Zonda people were stating they ran a fster time but did it in a differnt way I wouild say the same damn thing. Nissan did a different test than GM and I even posted how C&D stated that Nissan asked how GM did the testing for the Z. So Nissan was well aware of the testing procedures that the Z used. Tha's why it took them with Suzuki driving 5,000 miles of track time.
07-09-2008, 10:55 PM
#178
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NO **** sherlock. The SS did a standing start just like the Z did. That was the point. I did not avoid the ******* question. I ******* told your *** what was STATED in print and video by Tadge and others. Like I said if you can prove they are lying then back it the **** up. Like you and your time at OLOA!--oh my, that proves the GTR was stock.
Damn ******* straight if the Zonda people were stating they ran a fster time but did it in a differnt way I wouild say the same damn thing. Nissan did a different test than GM and I even posted how C&D stated that Nissan asked how GM did the testing for the Z. So Nissan was well aware of the testing procedures that the Z used. Tha's why it took them with Suzuki driving 5,000 miles of track time.
Damn ******* straight if the Zonda people were stating they ran a fster time but did it in a differnt way I wouild say the same damn thing. Nissan did a different test than GM and I even posted how C&D stated that Nissan asked how GM did the testing for the Z. So Nissan was well aware of the testing procedures that the Z used. Tha's why it took them with Suzuki driving 5,000 miles of track time.
Do you not understand that Porsche, Zonda, GM(CTSV and ZR1), Lambo and Ferrari all do the same damn test!
07-10-2008, 01:33 AM
#180
Show the video of the 7;29 run? There aint one ********!
BTW, go and watch the in car camera on the 7:38, it does not match what they are reporting.
Last edited by Suaveat69; 07-10-2008 at 01:37 AM. Reason: So ass-hole can learn something!