Bleeding a Clutch Master Cylinder
01-29-2015, 12:45 PM
#1
Bleeding a Clutch Master Cylinder This is an alternative to the Tick method of bleeding a clutch master cylinder while installed on the car.
While the Tick method will work for bleeding the clutch master, completely separating the line to access the check valve introduces air into the slave cylinder side of the connector when the line is reconnected. This is especially true if you happen to spill any fluid out of the slave line during the process of bleeding the master. This seems to make this procedure a zero sum gain or worse....
Every mechanic I've ever known (myself included) has always used the following method for bleeding master cylinders of all kinds...
1. Put someone in the car with their foot lightly on the pedal.
2. loosen the line coming out of the master cylinder until fluid comes out of the joint while the person in the car pushes the pedal all the way to the floor.
3. With the pedal all the way to the floor, tighten line.
4. Release pedal, fill master cylinder and repeat until you get no air out of the line.
If the line is loose, keeping pressure on the pedal or holding it all the way to the floor will prevent air from being drawn back into the system.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!
While the Tick method will work for bleeding the clutch master, completely separating the line to access the check valve introduces air into the slave cylinder side of the connector when the line is reconnected. This is especially true if you happen to spill any fluid out of the slave line during the process of bleeding the master. This seems to make this procedure a zero sum gain or worse....
Every mechanic I've ever known (myself included) has always used the following method for bleeding master cylinders of all kinds...
1. Put someone in the car with their foot lightly on the pedal.
2. loosen the line coming out of the master cylinder until fluid comes out of the joint while the person in the car pushes the pedal all the way to the floor.
3. With the pedal all the way to the floor, tighten line.
4. Release pedal, fill master cylinder and repeat until you get no air out of the line.
If the line is loose, keeping pressure on the pedal or holding it all the way to the floor will prevent air from being drawn back into the system.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!
01-30-2015, 08:46 AM
#3
You need to get your terminology straight....for those of you who are just tuning in, isis made this comment in reference to the thread linked here....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...-cylinder.html
The above is called controversy. This is an attempt to introduce an alternative method of bleeding a clutch master cylinder in a thread riddled with people having problems doing it. This is not only based on my personal experience but the observations of others.
This is Philistine taking a dump in his on thread in response to someone legitimately taking issue with something he posted...
This is poop because it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand....bleeding a clutch master cylinder. This wasn't unexpected as this crowd, minus a couple of other bad attitudes, continually attack things they can't legitimately criticize.
Of course, I'm guilty of stirring the pot a little...
To keep things on point, in my experience, the Tick method has the potential to cause as many problems as it cures. If anyone cares to have an intelligent debate about this, I'm not going anywhere.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...-cylinder.html
I've always "burped" a master by putting someone in the car with their foot on the pedal, loosen the line coming out of the cylinder maybe a half turn while the person in the car keeps light pressure on the pedal, slowly push pedal to floor pushing fluid and air out of the loose joint, leave foot on floor, tighten line and repeat. This at least saves the possibility of introducing air in the system where you disconnected it.
I did that and you will still end up with more bleeding to do. For some reason when disconnecting and reconnecting the slave to the master you get some air into the system. I actually watched the air bubble up into the master cylinder (Tick) when I did this. It wasn't a ton but it was enough to be problematic.
I'm not the only one who has noted that using the "disconnect the connector" method of bleeding actually introduces air into the line. If any fluid at all spills out of the open line going to the slave, you're done, end of story, there's air in the line after you reconnect it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...s7-set-up.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...s7-set-up.html
This is Philistine taking a dump in his on thread in response to someone legitimately taking issue with something he posted...
Awwwww, someone is butt-hurt as usual......why don't you actually INSTALL something.
I have heard of bench racing but never bench mechanicing.
Do you even own a V or do you bench buy cars too.
Let's all sit around and talk about something and never do it; I am going to start calling you "Congress".
I'm out! lol
I have heard of bench racing but never bench mechanicing.
Do you even own a V or do you bench buy cars too.
Let's all sit around and talk about something and never do it; I am going to start calling you "Congress".
I'm out! lol
Haha, if we take a poll, guaranteed you have derailed and jacked up more threads than I have. And everything you've done to your car has made it worse. Perhaps you should have left it stock. You're back to stock mounts and bushings with a stock driveshaft from voodoo right? Is you're car drivable again?
Obviously your in a mood today and you wanna argue... In the words of Doc Holiday, I'll be your huckleberry
Obviously your in a mood today and you wanna argue... In the words of Doc Holiday, I'll be your huckleberry
Of course, I'm guilty of stirring the pot a little...
To keep things on point, in my experience, the Tick method has the potential to cause as many problems as it cures. If anyone cares to have an intelligent debate about this, I'm not going anywhere.
01-30-2015, 04:01 PM
#6
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Probably the best use of forum quotes I've seen yet. My "well done" is not directed towards the OP with intent to start/continue drama; it is me +1ing, liking, or whatever, the video. It made me chuckle! 
Either way your method seems valuable and a good alternative for others IF they are running into bleed issues. More info is better, sad it takes this to get there.
Either way your method seems valuable and a good alternative for others IF they are running into bleed issues. More info is better, sad it takes this to get there.
01-30-2015, 04:47 PM
#7
Probably the best use of forum quotes I've seen yet. My "well done" is not directed towards the OP with intent to start/continue drama; it is me +1ing, liking, or whatever, the video. It made me chuckle!
Either way your method seems valuable and a good alternative for others IF they are running into bleed issues. More info is better, sad it takes this to get there.
Either way your method seems valuable and a good alternative for others IF they are running into bleed issues. More info is better, sad it takes this to get there.
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01-30-2015, 05:35 PM
#8
This is an alternative to the Tick method of bleeding a clutch master cylinder while installed on the car.
While the Tick method will work for bleeding the clutch master, completely separating the line to access the check valve introduces air into the slave cylinder side of the connector when the line is reconnected. This is especially true if you happen to spill any fluid out of the slave line during the process of bleeding the master. This seems to make this procedure a zero sum gain or worse....
Every mechanic I've ever known (myself included) has always used the following method for bleeding master cylinders of all kinds...
1. Put someone in the car with their foot lightly on the pedal.
2. loosen the line coming out of the master cylinder until fluid comes out of the joint while the person in the car pushes the pedal all the way to the floor.
3. With the pedal all the way to the floor, tighten line.
4. Release pedal, fill master cylinder and repeat until you get no air out of the line.
If the line is loose, keeping pressure on the pedal or holding it all the way to the floor will prevent air from being drawn back into the system.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!
While the Tick method will work for bleeding the clutch master, completely separating the line to access the check valve introduces air into the slave cylinder side of the connector when the line is reconnected. This is especially true if you happen to spill any fluid out of the slave line during the process of bleeding the master. This seems to make this procedure a zero sum gain or worse....
Every mechanic I've ever known (myself included) has always used the following method for bleeding master cylinders of all kinds...
1. Put someone in the car with their foot lightly on the pedal.
2. loosen the line coming out of the master cylinder until fluid comes out of the joint while the person in the car pushes the pedal all the way to the floor.
3. With the pedal all the way to the floor, tighten line.
4. Release pedal, fill master cylinder and repeat until you get no air out of the line.
If the line is loose, keeping pressure on the pedal or holding it all the way to the floor will prevent air from being drawn back into the system.
Hope this helps. Good Luck!
So since you do this for all kinds of master cylinders, in step 2. How do you loosen the hard to reach line coming from the master cylinder with the 19mm wrench? It is pinned and connected on the other end and hardly lets any rotation.
Let's say that you somehow "just can" how do you see any air coming from that line? The orientation does not permit any visibility because it is obstructed. The line is on the bottom and tilted towards the brake booster - you can't see it so somehow you can see air come out? That is of course if you can get the line loose with the 19mm stubby without twisting the line - remember, it's pinned to the slave fitting - makes it anti-rotation.
I can offer one that works for my aftermarket MC's which has been conducted by myself and Tick and many customers of Tick - it's a proven process:
1. Disconnect the MC line that goes to the slave.
2. Stroke the clutch pedal ONCE and hold to the floor - do not release your foot. The pedal should be stiff.
3. Press in the check valve and fill a jar. Fluid should come out. Use a small screwdriver or something small enough to release the check valve.
4. When the fluid has evacuated from that SINGLE pump, release the check valve.
5. Give it about 3-5 seconds and then release your foot from the clutch pedal.
6. If the fluid is clean, return it back to the MC reservoir.
7. Repeat this until you have cycled the MC reservoir 3-5 times.
8. Restore the MC line and reconnect to the slave.
9. Bleed the clutch using normal practices.
Here's a link to Tick's process:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Tick+master+cylinder+bleeding
Link for convenience:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...-properly.html
And because I know you so full of crap with a method that you have never performed on the V and misinforming others:
01-30-2015, 07:11 PM
#9
Hurling insults is unnecessary and frankly, I'm embarrassed for you considering the esteem many (myself included) hold for you here. You're an engineer, I get it and appreciate the fact that you have skills I will never have, but is it so hard to believe that you might be able to learn something from a lowly mechanic?
You don't see the air, you hear it escaping the joint. Fluid alone makes a distinctly different sound than fluid mixed with air. It isn't as challenging as it may seem.
I never had a need to bleed the stock master (pictured here I guess) so it may be as you said but I doubt the stock line is so tight that you can't get a 1/4 turn or so on it. That's about all you need to generate a line purge under moderate pedal pressure.
The Tilton isn't an issue as the line is well suited for this sort of operation as seen in the picture at the beginning of your thread.
Thanks for posting.
You don't see the air, you hear it escaping the joint. Fluid alone makes a distinctly different sound than fluid mixed with air. It isn't as challenging as it may seem.
I never had a need to bleed the stock master (pictured here I guess) so it may be as you said but I doubt the stock line is so tight that you can't get a 1/4 turn or so on it. That's about all you need to generate a line purge under moderate pedal pressure.
The Tilton isn't an issue as the line is well suited for this sort of operation as seen in the picture at the beginning of your thread.
Thanks for posting.
01-30-2015, 07:24 PM
#10
I can bleed it pretty fast using that and a remote bleeder. The cool thing is you can bleed from 2 places now. You can use the 'extra' port on top of the MC to bleed the MC itself.
I spoke with Tilton engineering to provide some clarity on bleeding the master cylinder. Basically, that top port is designed for a banjo fitting since the design is somewhat modular. However, during a fresh install you can bleed the master cylinder so you are not introducing more air into the system - using that port but that is optional and an additional feature. This does NOT bleed the clutch though, just the MC. You still have to bleed the clutch via remote bleeder (if installed) or from under the car by loosening the bleeder on the slave cylinder itself.
I spoke with Tilton engineering to provide some clarity on bleeding the master cylinder. Basically, that top port is designed for a banjo fitting since the design is somewhat modular. However, during a fresh install you can bleed the master cylinder so you are not introducing more air into the system - using that port but that is optional and an additional feature. This does NOT bleed the clutch though, just the MC. You still have to bleed the clutch via remote bleeder (if installed) or from under the car by loosening the bleeder on the slave cylinder itself.
01-31-2015, 02:05 AM
#11
philistine
[fil-uh-steen, -stahyn, fi-lis-tin, -teen]
noun
1.(sometimes initial capital letter) a person who is lacking in or hostile or smugly indifferent to cultural values, intellectual pursuits, aesthetic refinement, etc., or is contentedly commonplace in ideas and tastes.
2.(initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of ancient Philistia.
3.(initial lowercase letter) one who poops where they want (see Honey badger)
[fil-uh-steen, -stahyn, fi-lis-tin, -teen]
noun
1.(sometimes initial capital letter) a person who is lacking in or hostile or smugly indifferent to cultural values, intellectual pursuits, aesthetic refinement, etc., or is contentedly commonplace in ideas and tastes.
2.(initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of ancient Philistia.
3.(initial lowercase letter) one who poops where they want (see Honey badger)
Last edited by 54inches; 01-31-2015 at 02:19 AM.
01-31-2015, 09:48 AM
#13
Hurling insults is unnecessary and frankly, I'm embarrassed for you considering the esteem many (myself included) hold for you here. You're an engineer, I get it and appreciate the fact that you have skills I will never have, but is it so hard to believe that you might be able to learn something from a lowly mechanic?
Since we're defining things, I suggest you have a look at the definition of "hypocrite". You should try considering some of your own advice, man. People might give you more credit for the (few) useful things you post around here if you weren't such an F'n douchebag the rest of the time.
Last edited by wes8398; 01-31-2015 at 09:54 AM.
01-31-2015, 06:31 PM
#14
Since we're defining things, I suggest you have a look at the definition of "hypocrite". You should try considering some of your own advice, man. People might give you more credit for the (few) useful things you post around here if you weren't such an F'n douchebag the rest of the time.
People keep reading this thread so I'll take it that some actually find this kinda crap entertaining. Therefore, Wes, I give you free leave in the rest of this thread to post each and every insult I've thrown you're way and then I'll do the same coming from you and we'll see who the hypocrite is.
01-31-2015, 06:57 PM
#15
Since we're defining things, I suggest you have a look at the definition of "hypocrite". You should try considering some of your own advice, man. People might give you more credit for the (few) useful things you post around here if you weren't such an F'n douchebag the rest of the time.
01-31-2015, 10:13 PM
#16
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Wha..whoa wait what happened. I'm curled up in the fetal position shaking, crying and confused at the foot of the bed cuz mommy and daddy are fighting again. I'm having CF flashbacks, please don't fight you all provide such good advice for the lowly novices like myself. I'll show you my homemade slimline fans assy if it'll make you guys stop. This is why I migrated from CF.
