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I called DSS about modifying the carbon one-piece out of my 05 and they said they would need to shorten it at least 5" in order to get past the bonding agents they used to bond the yokes into the shaft...
Bruce at Hawks Motorsports got the V2 parts pulled and they all looked pristine having come from a car with 26k miles. They also seemed genuinely interested in this swap and I hope I can lean on them in the future as they have a ton of inventory of all things fast and late model GM. Lucky for me they're pretty close by and they probably have 5 V1s and 5 V2s they're currently parting not to mention probably every wrecked ZL1 on the east coast....a truly first class operation.
Without being covered in grease, this should be a pleasure to work with. Here you can see the lower diff mount and I guess I'll need to research sway bar sizing to see how compatible the nice shiny one seen here will be with the V1.
One of the first things that caught my eye, other than the diff and how much more substantially its mounted in the cradle, is the size and design of the cradle bushings as compared to the V1 parts. Based on the fact that nobody seems to be buying cradle bushings for the V2, I'll assume these are up to the task at hand and I gotta say, I won't be missing the polyurethane. The V2 bushings also appear to be taller than the V1 units which will probably account for the 1/2" ride height difference LSX416 noticed after pioneering this swap.
This is the electric e-brake servo for the V2 and I'll be happy to hear it go thud at the bottom of the dumpster. Or maybe I'll let it sit on ebay for 3 years until somebody needs it...
Here's a decent shot of the carrier bearing on the V2 as compared to the V1 unit and again, with little reference to problems with it, I look forward to installing it as is when the time comes.
The good news here is that the V2 drivetrain and the V1 drivetrain are the same length (92") from bellhousing to the end of the driveshaft as delivered with the integrated bellhousing. This is good news as I haven't been able to find anyone local willing to work with the V2 shaft but if I leave the integrated bellhousing on it, it should bolt right up from a length perspective.
As seen here though, the carrier locations are different but I'm hoping a simple offset bracket may work here. Its also interesting to see how GM decided to make an effort to keep the driveshaft halves equal lengths or close to it.
Additionally, all of the transmission sensors have the same part #s as the V1 parts but there is some unknowns regarding the speedo gearing and how accurate it may be. Jason at TDP should be able to answer this when the time comes.
The bellhousing depth is roughly 5/8 of an inch deeper on the V2 than on the V1 and while I've heard the bellhousing is bigger and you can see this difference in size, it isn't a monumental difference with it all sitting on the floor...this might change once you get it in the tunnel but only time will tell.
I guess the need to do the midplate swap will eventually come down to clutch selection and whether or not I decide I need to stay with the LS7 style clutch to keep the clutch hydraulics happy.
Going with the midplate swap also has the added benefit of putting the V2 shifter almost dead in the V1 shifter opening and also allows me a little bit of wiggle room on driveshaft length. A simple spacer would be all that's needed to get the driveshaft where it needs to be if I decide to swap midplates.
The V1 shifter location is about a 1/2 inch forward of the V2 so if I decide to keep the integrated bellhousing, I could just move the V2 shifter base forward in it's mounting slots on the transmission as pictured below and turn a little off the shifter shaft and call it a day....this is a nice, unexpected bonus that offers a little flexibility where I'll need it the most. BTW...yes there's slop in those mounting bushings...just can't get away from it but this part was sourced off craigslist...its a little hammered but I may try and source a low mileage unit from Hawks...however, Bruce at Hawks said the V2 shifter base can be hard to source as they're prone to breakage in cars that actually get wrecked hard enough to total loss.
So my initial impression is that the driveshaft will work without modification no matter what direction I decide to go and this is good news as again, I haven't been able to find anyone willing to mess with it.
It looks like the swap will require a modified trans crossmember and an offset bracket to mount the carrier but all in all that isn't crazy hard considering the resources I have at hand.
The missing pieces of the puzzle now are clutch selection and shifter mounting. I still have one part to get that bolts the shifter to the floor and all indications are that it looks a lot like the V1 part so maybe I'll get lucky and the bolt patterns will be the same.
Once I get back from vacation, I'll take a more detailed look into this but for now, I'd say this is very doable and offers a guy like me a good alternative to aftermarket parts that should offer a big bang for the buck ($4150 to date) and be much more refined than the poly filled solutions I found on my 05.
After all the headaches you've had I'm pretty excited about this for you. Looks very doable so far.
Thanks!
The strange thing is, I just bought an 06 with 123k, its got blown factory motor mounts, sagging trans and carrier mounts, stock cradle bushing and a new diff bushing...the car is smooth as silk and it isn't clunky (yet) cause it seems to have been babied...go figure.
I know that is short lived but I'll drive it till it fails as the clutch is smooth and it shifts better on stock hydraulics and a stock shifter than my Hurst/PMC equipped car. But that could be because the '05 has 261K on it now and I haven't gotten around to putting the really good clutch fluid in it...
I think the smoothness the 06 exhibits as compared to my poly mounted 8.8 '05 is what pushed me over the edge towards doing this. I'm hoping all this V2 stuff will give me the refinement I want and the strength I need without breaking the budget but that remains to be seen.
Pretty cool stuff. We're all about to learn a lot from this one. Are you putting in the v2 gas tank, too?
I might....It'll be a while before I do this cause I'm not working on a car that's running good. If it's found that the V2 tank swap is pretty close to a plug and play, I probably will when the time comes but for now, I have my hands full!
Thanks for the fanf*ckingtastic pics and comments. This is an exciting option, even in pieces. If you're able to do it with the 2 "simple" things you mention, this would be amazeballs!
Thanks for the fanf*ckingtastic pics and comments. This is an exciting option, even in pieces. If you're able to do it with the 2 "simple" things you mention, this would be amazeballs!
Thanks for the kind words!
I've been working on GM stuff for 40 years and I'm not shocked that there are a lot of similarities here....this flexibility across models and platforms is why I'm not a Ford or Mopar guy. I will say that Hondas used to be fun to play with for the exact same reason...
One dilemma I have now is....do i make the parts fit the car or the car fit the parts? The driveshafft carrier bearing mount is the big question mark here...
I'm leaning towards modifying the parts to fit the car. This is my 3rd V1 and while I know newer cars offer options this one will never have, I grew up with bias-plys and drum brakes...this car will always be the space shuttle to me.
That being said, if I can dial this in and it works well, I'll put 80 to 100k on this body and then find a garage queen V1 to swap all this into. I've had my belly full of body/paint and interior work and for me, it makes sense to keep swapping drivetrains into nicer examples of this platform than it is to keep ''restoring" the ones I have...while my 05 is still nice, its not as nice as it once was at 261k and I'd rather turn wrenches than sand sheetmetal or pray that the upholsterer is having a good day.
The V2 bushings are less stiff than the V1 bushings and should be immediately replaced with polyurethane. If you have problems with polyurethane subframe bushings, there's something else wrong. I went from rubber to 95A and later to 75D and haven't noticed any degradation in NVH. A lot of people will back me up on that.
The V2 bushings are less stiff than the V1 bushings and should be immediately replaced with polyurethane. If you have problems with polyurethane subframe bushings, there's something else wrong. I went from rubber to 95A and later to 75D and haven't noticed any degradation in NVH. A lot of people will back me up on that.
Do a search for "cts-v cradle bushings" and you'll get the phone book for V1s and crickets for v2s. That's a good starting point for me.
Do a search for "cts-v cradle bushings" and you'll get the phone book for V1s and crickets for v2s. That's a good starting point for me.
The lack of data doesn't prove your point. We have tons of posts because specific people demanded bushings on the V1 and then we all got into a multi-year-long debate on delrin vs. aluminum vs. 80A vs. 95A vs. CS vs. Revshift. It doesn't surprise me that V2 owners are too distracted with quarter mile times and putting different pulleys on their cars to worry about subframe bushings. If you do a couple more searches, you'll find that V2 owners do occasionally replace their rubber bushings with new rubber bushings.
Anyway, since I have multiple spare subframes I'm working on, I walked out to the patio 15 minutes ago, jammed a M14 bolt into the largest bushings in both subframes, and was able to significantly deflect the V2 subframe bushing with less force than the V1 bushing.
I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm just not seeing reports that the V2 has inadequate cradle bushings...it's as simple as that and if the car is just horrible, guess what, I can put cradle bushings in it.
Any I don't necessarily have a problem with my V1 cradle bushings, but when you add in diff bushings and motor mounts along with a filled trans mount, the car looses a bit of smoothness that you just aren't getting back. That's a fact and if you had two V1s sitting side by side (one with one without like I currently have) and you continually swapped back and forth, you'd see what I'm saying.
Any I don't necessarily have a problem with my V1 cradle bushings, but when you add in diff bushings and motor mounts along with a filled trans mount, the car looses a bit of smoothness that you just aren't getting back. That's a fact and if you had two V1s sitting side by side (one with one without like I currently have) and you continually swapped back and forth, you'd see what I'm saying.
I disagree that I've lost track of what the car once was. I've documented every mod I've done with pictures, notes, and video (200 GB and counting). There was no smoothness lost with bushings--only parade clunk and the dreaded "ka chunka chunka chunkachunkachunka" that threatened to break the driveline.
Where I feel that smoothness was lost was in the suspension, motor mounts, and driveshaft giubo upgrades. Once you lock everything down, your skill as a driver determines whether the car drives smooth or jerky.
I disagree that I've lost track of what the car once was. I've documented every mod I've done with pictures, notes, and video (200 GB and counting). There was no smoothness lost with bushings--only parade clunk and the dreaded "ka chunka chunka chunkachunkachunka" that threatened to break the driveline.
Where I feel that smoothness was lost was in the suspension, motor mounts, and driveshaft giubo upgrades. Once you lock everything down, your skill as a driver determines whether the car drives smooth or jerky.
Edit: I paid Fuzzy a bit of a compliment here originally but as he takes his marbles and goes home in his next post, I'll retract anything positive I had to say.
Fuzzy, you've built some good will on this site over the last months and personally I'm glad you're around but don't spoil it for me.
Dude, I don't give a ****. You're never going to be allowed on my forum or learn any significant details on anything I ever do--I don't forgive or forget. Enjoy what you can get while I'm bored and/or too busy to work on my website.
Dude, I don't give a ****. You're never going to be allowed on my forum or learn any significant details on anything I ever do--I don't forgive or forget. Enjoy what you can get while I'm bored and/or too busy to work on my website.
05-11-2017, 04:44 PM
